Because it will encourage other companies to behave the same. Some company flagship speaker already cost $500k. It will have a ripple effect on how other companies to price their speakers or products. I.e the rest of audiophiles will be indirectly affected.
Extreme Luxury Pricing in Audio
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I think you're right. And of course it is irrational. As long as some marketplace supports it, this will continue. If a market does not support it, it will change.
I suspect audiophiles themselves, encouraged by some media, are responsible for silly cable prices. At least one major cable company I am aware of keeps msrp prices high so dealers have room to offer them at discount because that appeals to buyers looking for 'a deal.' The media pays attention to high priced items so they get coverage. There are plenty of excellent wires without an audiophile sales pitch behind them. People who have spent big money on fancy cables will dismiss them. I have a system that is personally satisfying to me and have spent maybe $200 on cables.
I'm fascinated about my own feelings about this.
Whenever I see a very high priced element I immediately go 'this makes no sense, ridiculous, no one can afford this, this doesn't map well in a performance to price ratio, catering to brainless rich folks' and so on. At the same time whenever I see a Koenigsegg I don't have these feelings, just a 'hot damm'.
In both cases the process is the same, just reversed in order. With audio comes 'this is to be expected in a maturing added value market, just means this product is not for me but for people with different priorities or needs', while for cars I get 'ridiculous, this doesn't map well in a performance to price ratio'. So I seem to run the whole spectrum from negation to justification and acceptance, just is different directions.
Main question is, why audio? Why is my first though about audio in these terms, of feeling entitled to something that clearly isn't even segmented for me?
A lot of thoughts around that, but some of what seem to be the most relevant right now:
- I know and think more about audio so of course I'm more sensitive to it's idiosyncrasies and inconsistencies
- this is a maturing but underfinanced industry. Participants with a stake have the product vision to segment and attract different audiences but not to market in a sufficiently differentiated way to avoid confusion
- the audio marketing industry is not mature and large enough to effectively segment the audiences, in the same mag page you have a 10x price differential on ads for the same thing on different brands (think about cars and if you regularly see a Golf being advertised next to an Aston Martin)
- contradictory deep beliefs. At the same time we hold present that audio is like everything else (expensive things exist because there is a demand for them, not because their are necessarily better in every conceivable way) but exceptional (more expensive obviously means better, of course)
The good news from my stand point is that the existence of expensive stuff doesn't negate anything else. The same parallels can be drawn between Koenigsegg and Wolkswagen, Armani and Zara and a number of audio brands. You want good value (whatever that is for you)? I don't think there has ever been so many good choices out there!
Whenever I see a very high priced element I immediately go 'this makes no sense, ridiculous, no one can afford this, this doesn't map well in a performance to price ratio, catering to brainless rich folks' and so on. At the same time whenever I see a Koenigsegg I don't have these feelings, just a 'hot damm'.
In both cases the process is the same, just reversed in order. With audio comes 'this is to be expected in a maturing added value market, just means this product is not for me but for people with different priorities or needs', while for cars I get 'ridiculous, this doesn't map well in a performance to price ratio'. So I seem to run the whole spectrum from negation to justification and acceptance, just is different directions.
Main question is, why audio? Why is my first though about audio in these terms, of feeling entitled to something that clearly isn't even segmented for me?
A lot of thoughts around that, but some of what seem to be the most relevant right now:
- I know and think more about audio so of course I'm more sensitive to it's idiosyncrasies and inconsistencies
- this is a maturing but underfinanced industry. Participants with a stake have the product vision to segment and attract different audiences but not to market in a sufficiently differentiated way to avoid confusion
- the audio marketing industry is not mature and large enough to effectively segment the audiences, in the same mag page you have a 10x price differential on ads for the same thing on different brands (think about cars and if you regularly see a Golf being advertised next to an Aston Martin)
- contradictory deep beliefs. At the same time we hold present that audio is like everything else (expensive things exist because there is a demand for them, not because their are necessarily better in every conceivable way) but exceptional (more expensive obviously means better, of course)
The good news from my stand point is that the existence of expensive stuff doesn't negate anything else. The same parallels can be drawn between Koenigsegg and Wolkswagen, Armani and Zara and a number of audio brands. You want good value (whatever that is for you)? I don't think there has ever been so many good choices out there!
Imv the pricing is completely ridiculous.
For 50/ 100 K you can buy a SOTA audio system based on secondhand prices .
Its up to the audiophiles own experience what he combines / makes of it .
For 50/ 100 K you can buy a SOTA audio system based on secondhand prices .
Its up to the audiophiles own experience what he combines / makes of it .
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You guys don't have much of a sense of humour.
It's an inside joke from Herve
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Your argument appears to be that you want to own flagship products and this will put them out of your reach.
IMO, it is good to have choices, and this is no different than other $1M+ trophies.
if you don’t like this, try yachting as a hobby for a few years. A$1M bespoke phono cartridge will seem like a deal.
This kind of Veblan pricing is detached from actual value. It’ a luxury fantasy world. I think it would be unfortunate if this type of marketing seeps further into the high-end audio market as I believe we can already see this trend effecting prices (over and beyond costs and inflation). This effects a broader population of audio buyers than the luxury buyers.
And next comes the usual story about the Casio and the Rolex?
My answer is simple - IMO if the guy can spend two million wisely he will get better sound (better meaning a high quality sound he prefers, not the best at WBF) .
Maybe! But posting an “inside joke” on the World Wide Web might not be the best idea!
And next comes the usual story about the Casio and the Rolex?
My answer is simple - IMO if the guy can spend two million wisely he will get better sound (better meaning a high quality sound he prefers, not the best at WBF) .
“Wisely“ is the key. I believe it can be done for far less than 2 mil.
Everyone knows Casio is better than Rolex.
And next comes the usual story about the Casio and the Rolex?
My answer is simple - IMO if the guy can spend two million wisely he will get better sound (better meaning a high quality sound he prefers, not the best at WBF) .
Lol , The best WBF ( budget ) sound is a small flee power SET with Altecs.
Anybody who thinks otherwise , simply doesn t know what he is talking about.
I have been following DIY and building gear since my youth, following underground since the Hiraga days, much before the internet days - I was fortunate to know and help a person who was an "extravagant" audiophile . We had great times and I enjoyed it deeply. I respect the DIY approach and I consider it one meritorious approach to this hobby - perhaps the more pure approach to such a subjective individualist hobby. But I also remember reading a paper from Bells Lab written in the 50's about the problems and limitations of being the creator, the jury and the judge. This issue was some times discussed in Wireless World letters section.
Yes, I know of this alternative world. Fortunately most of them are reasonable people who enjoy greatly their passion and do not spend their time in a crusade against other approaches basing their argumentation on you tube videos.
In this aspect we are privileged in Europe - our audio magazines are more open minded than the US mainstream and we were sometimes shown great alternative systems in chateuax in France!
BTW, hard to access, unobtainium and secret conspiracy are not proves of quality.
BTW2, if we took this hobby "seriously" we would not be writing posts in this forum ... Surely I do not pretend to have "serious" hobbies, I had a "serious" profession for a long time.
People will need some exchange for champagne ...
Everyone knows Casio is better than Rolex.
You are correct. However one of my favorite looking is not Rolex, it is the IWC Portugieser Chronograph ...
Awareness is definitely a big part of the equation. Most audiophiles are not aware of products and developments beyond what is in magazines or featured at audio shows.
My seven year exploration into the world of high-end mastering studios was also very enlightening and it has since educated me to view elements of audio reproduction in a different light and with a better understanding of the elements at play.
As they say, “the more you know ….”
Talk about wise choices If we stay with watches , better performance can be had for 650 Euros .
I can navigate , receive text messages etc etc GARMIN Fenix 6 and nobody tries to steal it of my wrist like the other " Show pieces "
Oscar Wilde said very well; “A cynic knows the price of everything & the value of nothing.”
I got off the audio merry go round quite awhile ago. I have heard too many uber expensive systems that have left me cold, not just at shows either. I am sitting here listening to a modest system and can’t believe how wonderful the sound is. Vandy 3A Signatures from 1997, a rebuilt McCormack amp with a gravity base system , a Spectral pre from 1986 fed with a Schit Yggy LIM DAC with a MacBook Pro M1 chip and LaCie drive, cabling from the 1990’s with ESP power cords and power. I just sit here with my eyes closed enjoying the hell out of what I am hearing.
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I would say that many - even most - of them do not read audio magazines or visit shows - they just know what dealers and friends show them.
You can start an interesting thread on this subject. Can you tell us which high-end mastering studios you visited?
I have learned a lot from interviews with recording engineers along time. But their perspective on sound reproduction is very different from audiophiles - not "better" , just different. .
IMO the more we know, the more we enjoy this hobby and understand and accept others enjoyment.
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