What's Best in Mid-Tier Cables

KeithR said:

Thanks for the ideas everyone. I'm candidly skeptical on Iconoclast at the price he charges for Belden. Analysis Plus has been recommended by a reviewer friend, too.

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As mentioned in previous cable threads, the per ft price is likely reflective of actual value. The story about why Iconoclast cable is expensive seems suspect given their per ft prices.

5ft "Gen2" RCA OFC cable: $382.50
10ft "Gen2" RCA OFC cable: $435.00

That comes to $10.50 / ft. The Gen1 and BAC are less expensive afaik.

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Also, just for a bit of perspective.... Dealer sale brands are generally sold to dealers for 25% of retail price. I have no distributors or dealers and don't spend big-$ on ads, so I can offer cables for a lot less. My cables are based on the best possible objective design and using the best materials available. I don't "voice" my cables to sound a certain way, neutral is the goal , and that goal is achieved via improving measurable, objective aspects of cable design via balanced electrical characteristics and superior noise rejection. My ribbon SC and PC can't even be compared to round wire or foil cables, it's impossible to achieve the same electrical characteristics with round wire or foil, and in real world testing that results in my cables winning subjective comparisons nearly every time. This includes top end cables that cost 5-10x what my cables do. My pricing is mid tier but performance is as good or better than cost no object brands. This is based on over 10 years of sending people cables to compare with other cables, my sale rate on demos is over 75%.

Argonaut said:

For any folks who might be musing upon flat copper ribbon speaker cables I would recommend considering these: https://magnancables.wordpress.com/products/signature-speaker-cables/

Perhaps a little overlooked somewhat in todays busy modern cable market place , however if looking for a weighty , tonally dense presentation with no tipped up upper octaves they perform rather well.

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Nice choice. I just moved from a copper ribbon speaker cable, MG Audio Planus III, which had bested every other speaker cable I had tried prior, to the MG Audio Planus IV AG silver ribbon speaker cable. It has provided a definite positive step up in my system's sound. Sadly, MG Audio has folded, due a death of one of the partners.

Siltech Classic Legend

I was looking for a neutral transparent cable within my budget so that I can hear and evaluate what other components are adding to my audio chain.

Siltech Classic Legend garnered great reviews, but the one by Alan Sircom at HiFi+ here got my attention. The reviewer seemed “surprised” which is very rare, it got my attention:

“Within a few minutes of serious listening, my first note on the page was “Why haven’t I used Siltech Cables more often?”

Classic Legend is an extremely neutral conductor, adding or subtracting next to nothing to the sound of the equipment

Far from being a kind of bland neutrality, The Classic Legend sparkles by letting everything through.

It’s uncannily natural and musically-directed, leaving the field open for the sound of the source to meet the sound of the amplifier with the minimum of impact.

I was finding myself describing the music rather than the cable’s effect upon that music. When making notes about compatibility, I was writing more about the devices. And on it went. I guess that point about ‘neutrality’ applies just as much to the description of the cable as it does to the performance of the cable. If my job is to talk about how something sounds, and this is a fine example of not having a sound,”

I purchased sets of 880 interconnects.

Maybe check out Albedo Cables here as they “produce” their extreme high quality silver with cable prices seemingly a bargain for the quantity and quality of silver within each cable. Many very positive reviews including this forum here. I’m looking at their SC as my final SC upgrade.

KPC said:

Siltech Classic Legend

I was looking for a neutral transparent cable within my budget so that I can hear and evaluate what other components are adding to my audio chain.

Siltech Classic Legend garnered great reviews, but the one by Alan Sircom at HiFi+ here got my attention. The reviewer seemed “surprised” which is very rare, it got my attention:

“Within a few minutes of serious listening, my first note on the page was “Why haven’t I used Siltech Cables more often?”

Classic Legend is an extremely neutral conductor, adding or subtracting next to nothing to the sound of the equipment

Far from being a kind of bland neutrality, The Classic Legend sparkles by letting everything through.

It’s uncannily natural and musically-directed, leaving the field open for the sound of the source to meet the sound of the amplifier with the minimum of impact.

I was finding myself describing the music rather than the cable’s effect upon that music. When making notes about compatibility, I was writing more about the devices. And on it went. I guess that point about ‘neutrality’ applies just as much to the description of the cable as it does to the performance of the cable. If my job is to talk about how something sounds, and this is a fine example of not having a sound,”

I purchased sets of 880 interconnects.

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I really don't put any stock in reviews anymore. I like to read the articles. I can't get my heart into absorbing what's written as valuable. Lots of catch phrases. A predictable structure.

Argonaut said:

For any folks who might be musing upon flat copper ribbon speaker cables I would recommend considering these: https://magnancables.wordpress.com/products/signature-speaker-cables/

Perhaps a little overlooked somewhat in todays busy modern cable market place , however if looking for a weighty , tonally dense presentation with no tipped up upper octaves they perform rather well.

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What are your impressions of the Magnan interconnect (which is quite expensive)?

MarkusBarkus said:

...I like the Iconoclast very much

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To what other interconnects have you compared them in the same system?

KPC said:

Maybe check out Albedo Cables here as they “produce” their extreme high quality silver with cable prices seemingly a bargain for the quantity and quality of silver within each cable. Many very positive reviews including this forum here. I’m looking at their SC as my final SC upgrade.

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Greg Beron is a big fan of the Albedo cables.

Have you had occasion to compare the Albedo interconnects directly to other interconnects in your own system?

Hi Keith,

Maybe you and I can hire Marty to facilitate and conduct patient and methodologically valid cable comparisons for us in our own respective systems?

wcheng said:

I've had very good luck with Silversmith Fidelium speaker cables and there are some users who have reported similarly excellent results with the new Fidelium interconnects, which I'll be purchasing as soon as I can sell some other equipment. The ics are not on the Silversmith website but they are available for sale if you contact Jeff Smith.

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wcheng said:

I've had very good luck with Silversmith Fidelium speaker cables and there are some users who have reported similarly excellent results with the new Fidelium interconnects, which I'll be purchasing as soon as I can sell some other equipment. The ics are not on the Silversmith website but they are available for sale if you contact Jeff Smith.

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Besides our Westminster cables, Keith, I'm also a fan of Fidelum speaker cables. I have a client with the WestminsterLab Reis, Tidal Precensio pre, and Tidal Contriva G2s who swears by them, so much so that I had Jeff Smith give me a pair to take home from THE SHOW in Irvine last week. I installed the customer's Rei amplifiers and thought the cables sounded fast and neutral with great bass. Knowing your system as I do, they are definitely worth a try, and I can send you my set since I'm moving to a new home for the next few weeks and won't be able to get my system back up and running anytime soon.

Next in importance for you is power cords, given that the Reis, Nagra Pre, and MSB Reference DAC will react significantly to better power cords. This week, I installed a set of Rei amplifiers for a customer with Von Schweikert VR9 Mk2s, an EAR 912, pre, and a new Lampizator Posidean DAC. He uses cords developed for over a decade by a local builder named Grover with terrific results. The best part is that the hand-made cords cost roughly $700 each. Build quality and materials are exceptional. Let me know if you want contact info.

I would rate interconnects farther down the chain. A fresh set of BJC cables should suffice nicely, and you can spend some time trying different things. The Zen Waves have an excellent rep and appear to be a good candidate.

Ron Resnick said:

What are your impressions of the Magnan interconnect (which is quite expensive)?

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I didn’t get around to the Magnan interconnects Ron , being knee deep in interconnect wire as it was.

Kingrex said:

I really don't put any stock in reviews anymore. I like to read the articles. I can't get my heart into absorbing what's written as valuable. Lots of catch phrases. A predictable structure.

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Rex I am of the same opinion. I will use a review as a stat rating point, if I should consider a component, cable, tweak and put on my list of considerations. I put more stock in what I find on these pages than what a professional reviewer has written.

KeithR said:

Hi everyone, I've had WyWire Silver cabling for 10 years and find it with good tonal density and resolution but pretty neutral - it doesn't highlight certain areas of the frequency spectrum which I've found most cables do. Its a pretty simple design with copper litz strands and air dialetric. I tried WyWires Platinum speaker cables during the pandemic which were higher in resolution, but defined the image into "L, C, R" and it was kind of strange spatially.

I've also tried Kubala-Sosna Emotion/Elation on occasion from my dealer (mid range centric/forward/closed in), Cardas Clear Beyond (not as warm as former Cardas, but has a pleasantville smooth sound on everything), and Audience Au24SX (very nice tone that grabs you at first, but then seems too forward and not neutral).

So I am looking at cables in the ~$3k range which (unfortunately or not) is the mid-tier of cabling these days. Here are some options I'm considering:

1. Clarus
2. Argento/Organic Audio
3. Hijiri

I'd like some thoughts on these or others that folks prefer - again, I'm really in the more neutral cable camp with nice resolution. But something that isn't dead analytical. I also don't want network cables.

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Suggest you consider Shunyata's current V2/V2 NR series of cables which are significantly better than the previous generation and among the best I've heard. Featuring unique noise reduction technology they are quiet, articulate, and extremely resolving of inner detail but also neutral and natural sounding. Alpha V2/V2 NR (I upgraded from Townshend Fractal F1 to Alpha V2 interconnects) would probably meet your definition of mid-tier.

In my experience the best sound comes from matching cables, particularly power cables, to individual components, which inevitably results in having several different brands/models of cables in one's system. I have a Lessloss CMARC Entropic PC for example on my SACD player because (with its high frequency noise filtering design) it is the most musical and natural sounding PC I have heard on a digital front end. It is not compatible however with my modified Pathos TT amp. On the TT a Hemingway Audio Z-Core Beta PC (beyond mid tier in price) has outclassed everything else I've tried. On multiple occasions I have started out with full loom of one brand of cables, but substituting a different brand/model of an individual cable type for comparative listening, particularly power cables, has led me to a mix of brands each time. Currently have Shunyata Alpha V2 interconnects, Verastaar Grand Illusion speaker cables (plan to upgrade to Shunyata), and Allnic, Echole, Hemingway, and Lessloss power cables. Very pleased with the mix, which is superior to any single brand loom I've tried.

FYI - Allnic, Lessloss, and Shunyata available to try here:

gleeds said:

I would rate interconnects farther down the chain. A fresh set of BJC cables should suffice nicely, and you can spend some time trying different things. The Zen Waves have an excellent rep and appear to be a good candidate.

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I took the view that there are two big commercial cable manufacturers who make cables to specification and also make cables specifically for audio use, Belden in the USA and Supra in Sweden, i.e. this side of the Atlantic. They just take a no-nonsense approach with designs based on the application and specification, well made and legal. Most of my cables are Belden or Supra, plus a few power cables from Puritan because it part of the deal with a PM156 unit.

I've come to the conclusion that anything more is rabbit-hole territory, and I stick to the basic BJC, not the Iconoclast.

I did use Townshend Isolda speaker cables, a design seen from Goetz and more recently Fidelium. A room change and they became too short. They seemed completely transparent, but Belden 5T00UP seem just as good. Townshend have been making them since 1980 with a couple of upgrades. There was a similar cable (two thin parallel conductors) by Mission in the 1970s.

Looking at the banner ads at the top of this page, there are 7 of them, and the are all largely or entirely cable companies. Does hifi exist just to buy cables to to connect it together? You might think so. In the old days it was choose your hifi budget and add 10% for cables. Is it now choose your cables and add 10% for your hifi?

KeithR said:

Hi Dave, a 3ft pair of Gen 2 XLRs with the top copper option is $2050.

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Wow, seems like a lot for a copper cable. The prices I put up were for the mid-tier OFC copper and RCA cable, also a single and not a pair. The point being you can buy that particular cable for about $10/ft. I have a D1 UPOCC copper litz cable starting around $300 I'd put up against the Icono XLR any day. UPOCC copper does cost more than OFC but not THAT much more.

IMO though, copper IC cables are a bottleneck with very few exceptions, and those cables cost a lot. The ones I've tested and were really impressed by are from Jorma and Tara, but there may be some other really good copper cables out there too, idk. I've tested Audience and top-end Shunyata. which use a high-voltage treatment that makes copper clearer and less warm, but they still always lose in comparisons to UPOCC silver, and they also charge more than my UPOCC silver cables. They have a tonal greyness and dullness to them in comparison.

Also, a lot of what you pay for in a high end cable is for it doesn't do, in particular noise and other artifacts. I have a new line of lower priced cables coming out that will give you the same resolution as my ZenWave cables, they just aren't quite as refined. For example, Neutrik silver XLRs are really good, but compared to the new pure copper Furutech NCF XLR plugs they add some grain and noise. OTOH, Neutrik plugs are nearly free compared to the cost of the Furutech NCF XLRs and the new cables costs 1/3rd of the cost of my ZenWave DSR silver ribbon IC cable. It'll still allow your system to perform at a really high level in terms of timbre and spatial presentation, it's just not quite as quiet and overall refined as the ZenWave DSR.

ssfas said:

I took the view that there are two big commercial cable manufacturers who make cables to specification and also make cables specifically for audio use, Belden in the USA and Supra in Sweden, i.e. this side of the Atlantic. They just take a no-nonsense approach with designs based on the application and specification, well made and legal. Most of my cables are Belden or Supra, plus a few power cables from Puritan because it part of the deal with a PM156 unit.

I've come to the conclusion that anything more is rabbit-hole territory, and I stick to the basic BJC, not the Iconoclast.

I did use Townshend Isolda speaker cables, a design seen from Goetz and more recently Fidelium. A room change and they became too short. They seemed completely transparent, but Belden 5T00UP seem just as good. Townshend have been making them since 1980 with a couple of upgrades. There was a similar cable (two thin parallel conductors) by Mission in the 1970s.

Looking at the banner ads at the top of this page, there are 7 of them, and the are all largely or entirely cable companies. Does hifi exist just to buy cables to to connect it together? You might think so. In the old days it was choose your hifi budget and add 10% for cables. Is it now choose your cables and add 10% for your hifi?

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There are companies that make basic wire and/or assemble cables, and then there are companies that research and continually innovate in order to improve cable performance. Allnic, Lessloss, Shunyata, and Townshend for example, are innovators, whose cables perform on a whole different level from the likes of Belden, Goetz, and Supra, all of which I've tried.

FYI:

ssfas said:

I did use Townshend Isolda speaker cables, a design seen from Goetz and more recently Fidelium. A room change and they became too short. They seemed completely transparent, but Belden 5T00UP seem just as good. Townshend have been making them since 1980 with a couple of upgrades. There was a similar cable (two thin parallel conductors) by Mission in the 1970s.

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Those are all very different cables.

Townshend is the best of them, it uses ribbon (not foil... ribbon is not as thin as foil) design with spacing in between them to achieve superior electrical characteristics. My ribbon cables are similar but use a matrix of 16 ribbons to fine-tune the concept and provide better noise rejection. Also, the copper is higher quality.

Goertz and Fidilium are FOIL cables, so very thin material like a foil capacitor unwound. Goertz puts the foils in very close proximity to get low inductance but capacitance is very high and needs to be corrected for. Fidilium just uses loose foils that will vary in electrical characteristics depending on how the user installs them. Foil cables tend to present larger than life images in the soundstage as well, which I think is a major issue. It's not apparent in all systems, but is more pronounced the better the system is. Speakers with Accuton drivers and big SS amps seem to be most affected by foil cables.

KPC said:

Maybe check out Albedo Cables here as they “produce” their extreme high quality silver with cable prices seemingly a bargain for the quantity and quality of silver within each cable. Many very positive reviews including this forum here. I’m looking at their SC as my final SC upgrade.

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+1 - lovely cables, highly recommended.

DaveC said:

Those are all very different cables.

Townshend is the best of them, it uses ribbon (not foil... ribbon is not as thin as foil) design with spacing in between them to achieve superior electrical characteristics. My ribbon cables are similar but use a matrix of 16 ribbons to fine-tune the concept and provide better noise rejection. Also, the copper is higher quality.

Goertz and Fidilium are FOIL cables, so very thin material like a foil capacitor unwound. Goertz puts the foils in very close proximity to get low inductance but capacitance is very high and needs to be corrected for. Fidilium just uses loose foils that will vary in electrical characteristics depending on how the user installs them. Foil cables tend to present larger than life images in the soundstage as well, which I think is a major issue. It's not apparent in all systems, but is more pronounced the better the system is. Speakers with Accuton drivers and big SS amps seem to be most affected by foil cables.

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I absolutely love my Isolda speaker cables by Townshend Audio, https://www.townshendaudio.com/isolda-speaker-cables/