500 hours before they are their best? Guess any sort of A:B:A is out of the question. In fact, any comparisons at all.
“I listened to this last month and these are better/not as good”. Hmmm
What's Best in Mid-Tier Cables
- Thread starter KeithR
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“I listened to this last month and these are better/not as good”. Hmmm
You can definitely compare them to other cables, but I'd give them at least 100 hours initial burn-in, and then handle them gently while exchanging cables. You can get the burn-in and handling effects down to low levels when comparing cables, usually much less of a difference than the difference between cables.
Like anything, there's a right and a wrong way to do things. In audio systems nearly everything requires burn-in, even racks and footers often have settling times.
Your UPOCC silver speaker cables are no exception.
I have also been told that other ribbon cables (which I have been able to demo) all need 24 + hrs before any meaningful comparisons can be made - even after they are ‘broken in’.
It basically means any comparisons are invalid unless you have a very good audio memory - which I do not.
It’s almost a self fullfiling prophecy. If I can’t hear your cables without handling them like crystals or allowing them to ‘settle for days’, then I am never going to buy them.
That's for shipping... shipping does undo burn-in for some cables and especially ribbons. 24 hours often isn't long enough, I'd say 3 days as long as the cable has been thoroughly burned-in previously.
When comparing cables, if you handle them gently, preferably just removing the plugs and leaving the cables where they are, it is possible to do valid comparisons.
This goes for all cables though, it's just a matter of degree. Silver and teflon used in any kind of cable and even capacitors, generates static charged when handled, but it's possible to recognize that and listen past it. This called the triboelectric effect and when the charge effects the signal it's triboelectric noise. Because of triboelectric noise, with very sensitive multimeters you often have to let the leads settle for an hour or more to get a correct reading after hooking them up to whatever is being tested, what a huge PITA!
What's interesting is round wire cables, even silver and teflon, after they have been shipped and re-burned in a few times, finally settle down and the effects of handling are reduced to insignificance. I think this is due mechanical stresses in the dielectric from being coiled onto a spool and uncoiled. Naim actually built a machine that shakes their cables to mechanically destress them, I think it also requires several sessions of destressing with electrical burn-in in between the mechanical destressing. This process may reduce burn-in to insignificance, but it would cost a lot. I'm not sure this is 100% possible with ribbon cables due simply to their shape and the fact the dielectric will move vs the conductor when bent, generating more charge.
There is no doubt evaluation of any kind of audio component or system change can take a lot of thought, effort and time to perform properly. It's easy to attribute a change in sound to an incorrect cause as the system's behavior is often more complex than we give it credit for, so there are unknown unknowns that confound us.
(bolded above) I discovered this on my own years ago when moving wire from one room to another. I coiled up whatever wire I was using and moved to another room. That coiling really upset the wire and it took a while for it to sound right again. -When I'm testing cables, I leave whatever wire I'm not using behind the rack and that way when I compare them, as Dave says, "leaving the cables where they are", is the best procedure. This is a very easy to hear phenomenon.
SNAIC shaker! (and yes that is the real name) - (SNAIC being the name of one of the cables)
standard operating procedure for Naim owners (I was a 500 series owner for 18 years) is an annual distressing of all cables, and the several times insertion/removal of cables from the DIN connectors on the back of the component to clean and remove oxidation
Thanks and noted. I used Townshend Isolda ribbon cables for years. Rather regret selling them, but they were too short after changing rooms. These cables are going in the lowest noise part of my system, between a Holo May DAC and my integrated amplifier. I have a very low noise system anyway - a dedicated supply separate from the rest of the house, close to the consumer unit and all new wiring from under the street. The digital signal comes in over fibre and my streamer and DAC are connected by a Neotech silver UP-OCC usb cable.
HiFi Collective is a good business, mostly parts supply to the trade and DIY from select quality brands. They carry over $2m of stock and have $4m in retained profits.
I saw Neotech have brought out a rather exotic speaker cable NEC-3001 that costs about $320/m delivered.
Neotech NES-3001: Multistrand Copper Speaker Cable | HIFICollective
Neotech NES-3001: Multistrand Copper Speaker Cable
Thanks and noted. I used Townshend Isolda ribbon cables for years. Rather regret selling them, but they were too short after changing rooms. These cables are going in the lowest noise part of my system, between a Holo May DAC and my integrated amplifier. I have a very low noise system anyway - a dedicated supply separate from the rest of the house, close to the consumer unit and all new wiring from under the street. The digital signal comes in over fibre and my streamer and DAC are connected by a Neotech silver UP-OCC usb cable.
HiFi Collective is a good business, mostly parts supply to the trade and DIY from select quality brands. They carry over $2m of stock and have $4m in retained profits.
I saw Neotech have brought out a rather exotic speaker cable NEC-3001 that costs about $320/m delivered.
Neotech NES-3001: Multistrand Copper Speaker Cable | HIFICollective
Neotech NES-3001: Multistrand Copper Speaker Cablewww.hificollective.co.uk
Good cable, tough termination. IMO, too many heavy gauge solid-core conductors for a cable, so it's stiff and shouldn't be bent much. Same as NEP-3002 Power Cable, hence the 3rd color of wire. The Power cable has been around for many years now. They have far more "exotic" offerings in their Amazon lineup of cables.
Ribbon cables may have some issues with shipping/burn-in but it's not that big of a deal and ribbons can achieve better electrical properties for speaker and power cables, namely lower inductance, making them overall superior to regular round wire cables.
Ribbon cables also go unnoticed under rugs. Townshend supply them in hard plastic drums. It's difficult not to crease them.
HiFi Collective have excellent videos showing how to wire up these multi-conductor cables. They make it look easy, which it clearly isn't. They also show how to connect then without soldering using WBT speaker connectors. Thankfully they will do it for you for about $100 including tax.
The high quality budget cable market seems populated mostly by businesses making bespoke cables - chose your cable type, length and connector - then made to order on a "cost plus" basis. The fabrication cost of the pair I ordered is only 10% of the price, the 90% is component cost. They tend to arrive in plastic Jiffy bags.
None of these businesses seem to do any costly marketing or packaging and their owners don't drive around in Ferraris.
I put my order in 24 hours ago, looks like it will be here in a couple of days.
So I ordered these silver UPOCC Neotech cables and they were fabricated and delivered inside 72 hours. They turn up in recycled box, jiffy bag and bubble wrap, encouraging me to keep and reuse myself. initial impressions are very good, will burn them in for a few days.
I have owned the Albedo Monolith xlr and compared to Tara Labs the 2 brings more clarity and enhances dynamics.
I have owned the Albedo Metamorphosis SC which were astonishing with the Vitus RI-101 mk2. Unfortunately too forward and harsh once I have replaced the Vitus with TAD C600 and M1000.
I have Tara Labs the One and the 2 IC now, with basic QED SC. I’m looking at Kubala Emotion, Cardas Clear / Clear Reflection, Acoustic Revive or sticking to Tara Labs the 2. Happy with Shunyata Delta NR2 PC.
I’m looking for musicality, clarity and non fatiguing cables. Warmth just a tad, if ever.
I let the ball drop on this thread, but letting folks know I did audition Analysis Plus (Silver Apex), Clarus Crimson, and the Organic Audio cables by Argento. I had to draw the line after that, but thanks for the all the suggestions, PMs, and texts. Once I get the chosen loom broken in I will report back with some final thoughts. I was reminded with this exercise how cables are probably my least favorite part of this hobby, but still sonically important. I was able to find a mid-tier cable that exceeded both my expectations and previous WyWires Silvers.
For my more modest headphone rig, I ordered Zu Event 2 and there isn't a ton of difference between the WyWires. The Zu has a little more tone, the WyWires a bit larger headstage.
For my more modest headphone rig, I ordered Zu Event 2 and there isn't a ton of difference between the WyWires. The Zu has a little more tone, the WyWires a bit larger headstage.
Interesting re: HFC experience. Do you have more thoughts on the cables you had made up?
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