The [coffee snobs'] espresso thread

DaveC said:

I switch it up, there are some beans that it's best not to add milk to, like any expensive single origin. I get expensive beans every once in a while, not all the time. Otherwise I like to rotate through what the local roasters offer including traditional espresso blends as well as single origins.

My favorite milk drink these days is a relatively long extraction so you have around 75g out, then add hot water until you have about 120g, then ~20-30g of warmed half and half. It's similar volume to a cap with the milk being a lot less dominant. 75g out requires a unimodal grinder though, you can do the same with a typical 2:1 extraction and just adding more water.

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You are a man after my own heart. I would like that recipe too.

I actually started making espresso to get away from the milk (half and half) due to the calories. I found that I really liked exploring just the coffee itself. But I understand that some roasts just beg for milk. There is a soothing aspect to the milk side of espresso cuisine.

I’ve been really enjoying the new grinder and machine these last couple of weeks. Single origin beans, light roasts, Costa Rican and Ethiopian mostly. I like the brightness and the flavor bursts. I haven’t experimented so much in 12 or 13 years. The newness will wear off and I’ll settle into a new routine, probably within a few months. But I’m rediscovering many impressions and enjoying them on a new level.

The new machine is a Quick Mill Alexia Evo. Out of the box, the pressure relief valve was sticky from sitting in a warehouse for nearly two years according to the factory inspection certificate. At first it was stuck closed and every pull was at 13+ bar. It did not respond to adjustments. Then it was erratic for a few pulls. Then it stuck open and wouldn’t build pressure at all. At the end of the third day, I figured it out (it was not tightly secured and the valve body was turning with the adjuster). I tightened it up, made a final sequence of adjustments, and from the fourth day it has been reliably perfect for 9 bar pulls. I’ve been able to get 25 to 30 second extractions at 203 F, and 45 grams of espresso for 18 grams of beans. Changing beans requires minor grind adjustments, but they are reliably repeatable.

This machine has all the features needed for straight shots, and while it can steam milk too, I have not used this capability. The E61 brew group is very temperature stable. I can pull successive shots with no delay for recovery other than the delay associated with prepping the next puck. The boiler holds .75 liters which is enough for my use, but could be over taxed if serving several people.

I put it on an appliance timer so it has warmed up for an hour when I get up. The timer turns it off after my third doppio at lunch. The boiler heater cycles on and off, but minimally. The boiler is well insulated, and the brew group is a 9 pound chunk of stainless steel, it it is using very little electricity after the first 20 minutes. The temperature controller is a PID that also displays shot times.

The drip tray holds 46 ounces, and the reservoir holds 3 liters, so it doesn’t require daily water maintenance. Except for the brew group, it is cool to the touch. Even the steam/water wand is a double pipe, so it’s cool to the touch. I highly recommend this machine if the goal is to pull straight espresso shots.

Another Johnson said:

You are a man after my own heart. I would like that recipe too.

I actually started making espresso to get away from the milk (half and half) due to the calories. I found that I really liked exploring just the coffee itself. But I understand that some roasts just beg for milk. There is a soothing aspect to the milk side of espresso cuisine.

I’ve been really enjoying the new grinder and machine these last couple of weeks. Single origin beans, light roasts, Costa Rican and Ethiopian mostly. I like the brightness and the flavor bursts. I haven’t experimented so much in 12 or 13 years. The newness will wear off and I’ll settle into a new routine, probably within a few months. But I’m rediscovering many impressions and enjoying them on a new level.

The new machine is a Quick Mill Alexia Evo. Out of the box, the pressure relief valve was sticky from sitting in a warehouse for nearly two years according to the factory inspection certificate. At first it was stuck closed and every pull was at 13+ bar. It did not respond to adjustments. Then it was erratic for a few pulls. Then it stuck open and wouldn’t build pressure at all. At the end of the third day, I figured it out (it was not tightly secured and the valve body was turning with the adjuster). I tightened it up, made a final sequence of adjustments, and from the fourth day it has been reliably perfect for 9 bar pulls. I’ve been able to get 25 to 30 second extractions at 203 F, and 45 grams of espresso for 18 grams of beans. Changing beans requires minor grind adjustments, but they are reliably repeatable.

This machine has all the features needed for straight shots, and while it can steam milk too, I have not used this capability. The E61 brew group is very temperature stable. I can pull successive shots with no delay for recovery other than the delay associated with prepping the next puck. The boiler holds .75 liters which is enough for my use, but could be over taxed if serving several people.

I put it on an appliance timer so it has warmed up for an hour when I get up. The timer turns it off after my third doppio at lunch. The boiler heater cycles on and off, but minimally. The boiler is well insulated, and the brew group is a 9 pound chunk of stainless steel, it it is using very little electricity after the first 20 minutes. The temperature controller is a PID that also displays shot times.

The drip tray holds 46 ounces, and the reservoir holds 3 liters, so it doesn’t require daily water maintenance. Except for the brew group, it is cool to the touch. Even the steam/water wand is a double pipe, so it’s cool to the touch. I highly recommend this machine if the goal is to pull straight espresso shots.

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This is what my lungo americano thing looks like. I like a little milk in the morning before breakfast but not as much later in the day. I usually have a shot in the early afternoon but have had to cut back on caffeine.

One of the nice things about a manual machine is no warm-up, the Forge is ready to go as fast as you can boil water. The downside is it takes more time between shots so if you're making espresso for a bunch of people it'd get tedious. The owner is looking into a heated base for the Forge that would use a conventional portafilter handle, that would be really cool for home use.

DaveC said:

This is what my lungo americano thing looks like. I like a little milk in the morning before breakfast but not as much later in the day. I usually have a shot in the early afternoon but have had to cut back on caffeine.

One of the nice things about a manual machine is no warm-up, the Forge is ready to go as fast as you can boil water. The downside is it takes more time between shots so if you're making espresso for a bunch of people it'd get tedious. The owner is looking into a heated base for the Forge that would use a conventional portafilter handle, that would be really cool for home use.

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Very nice. As I understand it, the Italian espresso culture would choose milk early in the day, but skip it later.

I visited a local Roastery today. They had no onsite sales capability, but the fellow working gave me some Tanzanian Peaberry, and a tour of the SF-25 roasters. A Brazilian was approaching first crack, so we watched, listened, drew samples, and dumped the beans to cool. It was beautiful.

I’ve relegated the 64mm burr grinder to backup status and am seasoning an 83 mm burr grinder now. One thing leads to another.

With the really good ventilation pulling the smoke off the roast, the aromas were quite nice. My home roasting had always been plagued by the smoke so that the bean smells were obscured.

I’ve come nearly full circle. The key to great coffee is in the tasting. All the science is fun, just like with vinyl. But in the end, it comes down to your personal enjoyment of the coffee (or the music).

wil said:

I think I now have it down to two choices:
Olympia Mina and the Forge.

The only downside I can see on the Mina is the smaller portafilter size of 49.

Downside on the Forge is having to take it apart and reassemble every time you use it.

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An interesting video on the 49 vs 58 baskets.

Meet Dave and his wife Sandy, who operate from the end of East Harbour Way in Burnham Overy Staithe, on the West Norfolk coast. Handmade cakes by Sandy and local ceramic cups.

They use a Fancino twin hybrid machine, made in Birmingham, UK, that can get full pressure from the mains, a car battery or methane. They use methane. Coffee from a Norwich roaster, from El Salvador. Delicious, either on the way to or back from the beach.

They appear in a new book of where to get a coffee and some nice grub by the beach.

I don’t know how someone earns enough from selling off a cart to make the enterprise worthwhile, unless it’s £10/shot. It must be a labor of love. Even at £10/shot, it wouldn’t be worth it to me.

Another Johnson said:

I don’t know how someone earns enough from selling off a cart to make the enterprise worthwhile, unless it’s £10/shot. It must be a labor of love. Even at £10/shot, it wouldn’t be worth it to me.

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They clearly don't do it for the money. They had the idea in Covid when everything was shut. They get to spend 6 months of the year in the most beautiful spot chatting with lots of people and making them happy. Their cart is made from some modified kitchen cupboards and bicycle parts. I think it was £8 for a coffee and two pieces of home-made cake. It could happily do it, a great retirement project. They could always sit at home in front of the TV.

ssfas said:

They clearly don't do it for the money. They had the idea in Covid when everything was shut. They get to spend 6 months of the year in the most beautiful spot chatting with lots of people and making them happy. Their cart is made from some modified kitchen cupboards and bicycle parts. I think it was £8 for a coffee and two pieces of home-made cake. It could happily do it, a great retirement project. They could always sit at home in front of the TV.

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As I said, it must be a labor of love. I did not imply that they should sit around. They sound like very nice “people persons” … we could use a few more of them here on WBF.

Another Johnson said:

An interesting video on the 49 vs 58 baskets.

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I love this kind of video that presents a hypothesis, conducts an experiment, and shows the data. however and from my humble experience and taste, I've learned that I can get better espresso at almost any gas station in Italy than at those fancy new style trendy coffee shops.

exupgh12 said:

I love this kind of video that presents a hypothesis, conducts an experiment, and shows the data. however and from my humble experience and taste, I've learned that I can get better espresso at almost any gas station in Italy than at those fancy new style trendy coffee shops.

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Add Argentina to that list as well....fantastic coffee to be had there throughout the country and the staff and espresso setups at their gas and rest areas on most highways turn out far better espresso and all the typical variants than nearly all trendy coffee "boutiques" in the US and elsewhere. Many of their full café are also beyond compare (IMHO).

Someone should chime in now and rave about the incredible gas station Sushi which is much better than the sliced and spiced tilapia served at the typically terrible but trendy Sushi bars in the US.

FWIW, there are many people in the US who prefer gas station (or even McDonald’s) espresso cuisine, made in a super automatic, when compared to the unpredictable cup served by the 19 year old pulling shots at the nearby coffee bar.

Does the gas station provide coffee shop ambiance? Or is it pretty much equivalent to a 24/7 “rush hour gulp ‘n go?” Coffee culture is like every other culture … people think that theirs is best and that others are ignorant.

Just decided to pull the trigger on a Timemore 064s. If anyone else has one, what is generally your grind setting for medium roast espresso and pour-over, just for a starting point?

findog said:

Just decided to pull the trigger on a Timemore 064s. If anyone else has one, what is generally your grind setting for medium roast espresso and pour-over, just for a starting point?

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Here is a recent discussion

I learned a lot from other posters in this thread, particularly about new equipment capabilities (like the Decent machine, for example). Thanks, particularly to @DaveC.

A few really valuable things I’ve learned during this intense redive into espresso include:

1. The pull is stratified due to the nature of the extraction process. The liquid enters the cup thick and viscous, and ends a bit watery. The flavors advance from sour initially to sweet, and then to bitter. So the lesson here is STIR THE CUP to homogenize the pull.

2. Roast profiles have really advanced in the last decade. Computer control seems to be the norm. As a consequence, under the new normal, light roasts really benefit from resting (out gassing) for two to four weeks from the roast date. Before the rest, the CO2 released in the freshly ground puck as the water flows through can really mess with your extractions. After the longer rest, the light roast behavior is far more predictable.

3. In my new grinders, burr seasoning has noticeably improved uniformity. I am using cast lab sweet burrs in the 64mm grinder (dedicated to pour overs). There were noticeable improvements in taste every kilogram through the grinder for medium roast beans. Now, after more than six kg, changes are less dramatic. In the 83mm grinder with espresso burrs grinding mostly light roasts, changes have been less dramatic since the third kg. But there were changes as the burrs were breaking in.

4. With the light and medium roasts I’ve been dialing in, baskets, dose, and puck prep are inextricably tied together. Underestimate the effect of these three together, and you will waste a lot of coffee.

5. The Quick Mill Alexia Evo is a champ if you don’t care about milk drinks. It is built like a tank. Quick Mill even makes their own 304 and 316 stainless steel. The two potentially worthwhile upgrades would be to a rotary pump and to a double boiler… but the cost jumps to nearly double within the Quick Mill line to get these features. It might be worth this to some. For me, if I ever wear out the Alexia Evo, I’d consider the jump.

6. This hasn’t changed since I first started home espresso nearly twenty years ago … pay attention if you’re working with more than one type of bean. It is very easy to mix up the doses or grind settings, and if you do, your best efforts may be thwarted. I’ve made a sign for my espresso grinder reading “Don’t Forget to Check the Grind Setting.” One coffee I like is best at a dose of 20 grams ground on 15. The other favorite is a dose of 21 grams ground on 18. If you get these right, the first one (medium roast) gives 2:1 in 30 seconds and the other (light roast) gives 3:1 in 30 seconds. Both perfect. Mess up the grinds and the first one is a turbo shot at 15 seconds, while the second runs for 50 seconds for the target ratios. They still taste OK, but they’re obviously compromised.

DaveC said:

This is what my lungo americano thing looks like. I like a little milk in the morning before breakfast but not as much later in the day. I usually have a shot in the early afternoon but have had to cut back on caffeine.

One of the nice things about a manual machine is no warm-up, the Forge is ready to go as fast as you can boil water. The downside is it takes more time between shots so if you're making espresso for a bunch of people it'd get tedious. The owner is looking into a heated base for the Forge that would use a conventional portafilter handle, that would be really cool for home use.

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I don’t do milk as a rule, but I thought I’d give it a try in the form of a traditional cappuccino yesterday.

It looks like a little volcanic island with three peaks.



FWIW, it’s whole milk, and the final white foam was dipped and dropped rather than poured. Most importantly, it tasted very good.

We knew it would happen. I picked up an ECM Synchronika. The steam power is incredible. And both boilers are controlled separately so the brew boiler is rock stable.

The microfoam is literally like thick paint in texture.

Another Johnson said:

We knew it would happen. I picked up an ECM Synchronika. The steam power is incredible. And both boilers are controlled separately so the brew boiler is rock stable.

The microfoam is literally like thick paint in texture.

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Congrats!

If I get another machine that would be on the list, double boiler is a nice upgrade.

I wish someone would make a middle of the road milk steamer. Seems like there's nothing in between the cheap stuff that doesn't really work and spending ~$5k for a commercial unit.

The Bellman steamer is working great for me. The key is getting it hot enough. You know it’s hot enough when steam is expelling through every orifice and you wonder if the little pot might start to levitate.

DaveC said:

Congrats!

If I get another machine that would be on the list, double boiler is a nice upgrade.

I wish someone would make a middle of the road milk steamer. Seems like there's nothing in between the cheap stuff that doesn't really work and spending ~$5k for a commercial unit.

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I am traveling this week. Tonight is the North American “pre-launch” of the new Sonus Faber flagship speakers. I actually listened to them being “broken in” yesterday. Saturday will be an all day McIntosh Group party at Paragon Sight and Sound in Ann Arbor. Larry Marcus is a very gracious host, and if you’re interested in Sonus Faber or the McIntosh offerings, I guarantee that you will enjoy Saturday’s hospitality.

So why am I posting this here? Weber’s Boutique Hotel and Restaurant is a mile from Paragon, and they often offer special rates if you’re visiting Paragon. They serve very good Quads at breakfast … but today I ordered a Doppio and a Cappuccino (to check out their milk steaming skills).

The Doppio was very nice, smooth, even … as always. The Cappuccino foam was far more coarse than the microfoam that I’m getting at home. They topped it in the modern way with a “Latte Art” heart, but because the bubbles were not strong, it faded into low contrast tan pretty quickly. The Synchronika’s foam is literally like latex paint. The foam on my Cappuccino this morning was whole milk, but it acted like it had been made on a frother rather than steamed. I enjoyed it anyway. I would have been disappointed if the Synchronika had been bettered (their latte art was better than mine, but my foam persists and has stark white contrast).

I am of Scandinavian descent… and I do prefer single origin, higher elevation beans lightly roasted compared to other espressos … so I have been watching Tim Wendelboe videos lately. I’ve tried a few of his ideas, and have found them to please my palate.

One in particular is his idea to make your pull into a room temperature cup that is fairly large (say latte size of around 6 ounces). If you have some beans that you’re not particularly pleased with, this strategy seems to be a “leveler.” It mutes negative flavor notes (like smokey), but it also tends to suppress brightness. It is a very nice “first cup of the day” choice.

I like TW. He is fairly laid back. And he credits George Howell as the roaster/cupper who opened his taste buds to true fruitiness in coffees.

Right now the Norsk Kroner is valued low compared to the US Dollar, and so buying coffee from TW is very affordable for the quality of his beans. Of course George Howell’s beans may win out on price due to shipping costs. But they’re both worth checking out if you like single origin light roasts.