25% of Americans expect to wait until age 80 to retire

Steve williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
What a sobering statistic

By Blake Ellis | CNNMoney.com – Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:15 PM EST

A quarter of middle-class Americans are now so pessimistic about their savings that they are planning to delay retirement until they are at least 80 years old -- two years longer than the average person is even expected to live.
It sounds depressing, but for many it's a necessity. On average, Americans have only saved a mere 7% of the retirement nest egg they were hoping to build, according to Wells Fargo's latest retirement survey that polled 1,500 middle-class Americans.
While respondents (whose ages ranged from 20 to 80) had median savings of only $25,000, their median retirement savings goal was $350,000. And 30% of people in their 60s -- right around the traditional retirement age of 65 -- that were surveyed had saved less than $25,000 for retirement.
As a result, many people aren't in a hurry to quit their day jobs.
Three-fourths of middle-class Americans expect to work throughout retirement. And this includes the 25% of Americans who say they will "need to work until at least age 80" before being able to retire comfortably.
"The fact that the vast majority of middle-class Americans expect to work well past the traditional retirement age has significant societal and economic implications," said Joe Ready, director of Wells Fargo Institutional Retirement and Trust. "Will people be physically and mentally able to work later in life? What will it mean for young people entering the workforce? And, how does our system of retirement savings need to be reformed to help reduce the savings gap?"
My twins are eating my retirement savings
Because of the growing gap between actual savings and savings goals, many Americans are scrapping the idea of a concrete retirement age altogether and are instead working as long as it takes in order to save up enough to live comfortably in retirement.
Three-fourths of middle class Americans said it is more important to save a specific amount before retiring, regardless of age, while 20% said it is more important to retire at a specific age, regardless of savings.
This is a change from recent years, with Americans traditionally planning on retiring at a very specific retirement age (typically 65). But with the hits unemployment, stock market swings and plunging home prices have taken on so many Americans' savings, it's made it more difficult for people to feel optimistic about their golden years.
Changes in pension plans and proposed cuts to Social Security and Medicare benefits are also cutting into retirement optimism, Wells Fargo found.
On average, people ages 20 to 40 expect Social Security to account for only 20% of their retirement funding. And more than 25% of people in both their 20s and their 30s expect to get absolutely no income from Social Security in retirement. People in their 50s expect to get 36% of retirement funding from Social Security, and 60-year-olds anticipate Social Security to make up 46% of their retirement income.
On the bright side, a lot of people are actually choosing to work longer, the survey showed. About 45% of Americans between 25 and 39 and a quarter of people ages 40 to 59 say they will work in retirement because they want to (though 42% of Americans say they will work in a position that requires "less responsibility.")
Young bosses, older workers
And some people may even work well past 80 years old. Robyn Sekula, from New Albany, Ind., is 40 years old and hopes to work for the rest of her life at her job as a media consultant.
"I don't know that I will ever want to retire, unless my health dictates that I must," said Sekula. "I love what I do."
 
life expectancy is around 70 yrs,old.?
 
And here's the bigger problem: It's hard as hell to get a job past 50. People may have had their retirement savings wrecked by the movement of pensions to 401(k)s in the 90s, followed by the crash of the markets in the 2000s, and the loss of real estate value, and wage stagnation, and the rapidly escalating costs educating their kids, and I'll go ahead and say it before they get here -- some of them may have just been irresponsible and not saved enough -- they may want to work until they're 80, they may need to work until they're 80, but I don't think American business wants them to. I think American business wants a workforce that is fast, cheap and easy to insure. The world is changing so rapidly that experience doesn't have nearly the value it once had. So while the government would love to raise the retirement age to extend the people paying into Social Security and put off the people collecting it, and while the workers would like to work older because they're healthier, they're going to live longer and they need the income, business doesn't want them. Trust me. Maybe that'll change, but we're sure not there yet.

We have a serious problem.

Tim

H
 
Ironically when Bismarck established the first state run pension program, the age to receive benefits was initially set at 70 (and subsequently lowered to 65). The average Prussian life expectancy at the time has been estimated at 45-55 years. Clearly the expectation was that most people would never draw a single check from the system. Additionally, the ratio of young workers to pensioners was highly favorable. As Tim alluded in his post, the demographics and the economics that result from our current system are seriously out of kilter.
 
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"A study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported that Black males' life expectancy has increased by 1.2 years to 67.3 years. For Black females it increased by half a year to 74.7 years.

For White males and females the numbers were, respectively, 74.3 years and 79.3 years."

So we will be dead before we stop working.
 
WOW. Those are some pretty depressing statistics.

Unless one has a net worth that has at least two commas, early retirement (while still in your 50's or anytime before being eligible for Medicare) must be out of the question. Why? Healthcare costs.

Go do some investigation into what it costs to buy your own health insurance. And those kinds of individual policies have all kinds of deductibles. Consider total premiums and deductibles (for you and your under 65 spouse) and we are talking some very serious coin on an annual basis.

Tim said:
And here's the bigger problem: It's hard as hell to get a job past 50.

Correct. Even in a more robust economy, age discrimination was prevalent (I experienced it and so have many, many others I know), which is why I have begged my son-in-law (who is 41 and currently has a great job) to start up some kind of business so he will not have to depend on anyone else when he gets to that point.

Had I not started my own company 8 years ago, I would be in very deep do-do. Very deep!!
 
I stopped talking with people one on one about retirement because I found out that it is as rude as asking them how much money they have, thus most info is from internet and here-say.

Members of my profession often grab onto the "sweet lemons" attitude, because they are the "money fountains" for their extended families and are in a kind of indentured servitude that doesn't let them stop, so they claim to love doing it until they are ancient, crumbling, senile and don't smell good anymore. Some are sending their grand children through college, after putting their own kids through.

I just sold my practice and am "retired", although I have a standing job offer from a friend. I am going to take a couple of years off, however, and just live and breath for a while. The calculators indicate that I shouldn't have to work any more unless I want to, and I plan to work at something, just not something I don't like doing.

I personally believe that mortality and morbidity are higher and life spans generally lower than what the "authorities" claim. It seems that I have quite a few clients and immediate friends of friends who bit the dust long before they were 65, some quite suddenly.

The young couple that bought my practice indicated the between them they have somewhere between 800k and 900k in debt, for school, business etc. I gather they have affluent family that can co-sign their debt, because I cannot imagine any bank giving them any kind of loan. I also cannot imagine having that kind of debt burden in my early thirties. The professions diminished a lot already when I got into them from previous generations, and are now even worse with insurance, managed care, government meddling, lawsuits of all kinds, too many providers and competition etc, etc, so these young people are debt slaves in a way that is really daunting. They are going to try to buy a house next year, too. I wonder when or if they are going to be able to "retire?" Their parents are going to have to pay off their debts or leave them a bundle.

Social mobility is starting to freeze up pretty tightly in this country, opportunity is becoming more dynastic and much less based on merit, education or hard work.
 
So we will be dead before we stop working.

I could stop working now and I wouldn't miss it that much. I hope to be dead before I stop gigging.

Tim
 
I'm somewhat suprised (although not entirely) by the differences between the U.S. and Canadian life expectancy stats.
 
And here's the bigger problem: It's hard as hell to get a job past 50. People may have had their retirement savings wrecked by the movement of pensions to 401(k)s in the 90s, followed by the crash of the markets in the 2000s, and the loss of real estate value, and wage stagnation, and the rapidly escalating costs educating their kids, and I'll go ahead and say it before they get here -- some of them may have just been irresponsible and not saved enough -- they may want to work until they're 80, they may need to work until they're 80, but I don't think American business wants them to. I think American business wants a workforce that is fast, cheap and easy to insure. The world is changing so rapidly that experience doesn't have nearly the value it once had. So while the government would love to raise the retirement age to extend the people paying into Social Security and put off the people collecting it, and while the workers would like to work older because they're healthier, they're going to live longer and they need the income, business doesn't want them. Trust me. Maybe that'll change, but we're sure not there yet.

We have a serious problem.

Tim

H

When I was studying in Sweden for a couple of months I was chatting with some young folks who worked at the hotel we were billeted in. Many were degree holders. One, a computer engineering graduate, said there just weren't enough jobs. When we visited a number of large companies, I asked why they weren't hiring. They pretty much all said the same thing. They'd rather have people with forty years of experience than kids with 4 years of university.

It's sort of like what you are saying Tim but in reverse. Personally I think neither is good thinking. There has got to be a way to effectively transfer the knowledge from one generation to another. Paradoxically, once we even start segmenting the groups the harder this becomes.
 
We don't value age much in America until after things get screwed up.
 
dying of consumption

Part of the problem:

"As a job loss dictates, my audio experience is beginning anew with a mid-fi system. I just purchased a 2010 mac mini and will be ripping my CD collection to it. Not sure which software yet.

I am looking for opinions on some equipment."

I saw this on an audio forum recently. I was struck by the idea of reacting to a job loss by buying non-essentials.

Bill
 
A quarter of middle-class Americans are now so pessimistic about their savings that they are planning to delay retirement until they are at least 80 years oldA quarter of middle-class Americans are now so pessimistic about their savings that they are planning to delay retirement until they are at least 80 years old

The real question: Why are the other 75% so optimistic :confused:

"As a job loss dictates, my audio experience is beginning anew with a mid-fi system. I just purchased a 2010 mac mini and will be ripping my CD collection to it. Not sure which software yet.

I am looking for opinions on some equipment."

I saw this on an audio forum recently. I was struck by the idea of reacting to a job loss by buying non-essentials.

A perfect metaphor for our current circumstances. "The sense of entitlement persists long after the entitlement ceases to make sense."
 

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