$80K budget for Speakers

[sbo6]

I agree, Focals and Magicos are too bright for me. I spent time with all three brands and ultimately sold my Vivid Audio G1s and replaced them with Alexias. No regrets for a single moment. The Alexia Vs are really special. My first choice would be the Alexx Vs, but they are in a different price class. I had Wilsons before and got tired of them, but have to admit today that the evolution to the new generation Wilsons (V material, new drivers, diode spikes) made a massive improvement for me. As a sidenote, I recently spent a lot of time with the Chronosonic XVX and the Wilson subsonic towers, driven by Boulder amplification, and this could for sure be the last system to aspire to.

First, I believe Ron said Focals are too bright, not Magicos. The M and S series are far from bright IME.

Second, when I was looking for a speaker some years back I listened to many designs in the ~50K - $60K range including the Wilson Alexias. My friend and I went to a dealer in Dallas and we both walked out of the dealer's room. I've heard them in another dealer's setup and same experience - they are very, very finicky with gear and setup. And I found the bass, well, meh. YMMV.

Of the many speakers, my favorites were Vandersteen 7, Magico M2 / M3, and the Vivid Giya G2S2s (I bought the Vivids). I now have the Vivid Spirits (4 - way, ~2x11" woofers) which are in a completely different league versus the Alexias (3 - way, an 8" and a 10" woofer). The Spirits would be too big for your room, however the G2S2 would work and you'd have enough $ for 2 good subs to ameliorate peaks and dips in your square room.

Lastly, some good advice above, one I would not overlook - dipoles may be the best choice in your square room. You'd be sitting moderately near - field so dynamics wouldn't be an issue and the directivity of the panels would help control reflections, etc. In any case, good luck in your search!!

 

[Al M.]

A well setup and optimized $40k speaker is going to far outperform an $80k speaker that is just loosely placed.

So true!

 

[morricab]

No brainer , my own speaker design from 2016 still goes very strong .
After having visited many shows/ dealer shows the past 2 - 3 years i m even more convinced .
What i also have become convinced of is the sound smearing of Tube power amps .
I might be adding a CH precision power amp possibly next year M 1.1 or A 1.5

Total BS generalization about tubes. Really good tube amps do nothing of the sort and this is just a trolling comment…or lack of experience.

 

[Al M.]

Total BS generalization about tubes. Really good tube amps do nothing of the sort and this is just a trolling comment…or lack of experience.

...or speakers that are harder to drive than they should be.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Total BS generalization about tubes. Really good tube amps do nothing of the sort and this is just a trolling comment…or lack of experience.

Crusify me .

 

[andromedaaudio]

Regarding 80 K more commercial speakers .

Id be looking at Magico the latest S line .
Kharma exquisite MIDI

 

[Lee]

Total BS generalization about tubes. Really good tube amps do nothing of the sort and this is just a trolling comment…or lack of experience.

Ahh, something we agree on.

 

[Ron Resnick]

First, I believe Ron said Focals are too bright

I sure hope that whatever I wrote I was clear that I was stating only my subjective opinion.

I have a close friend who is very happy with his Focals.

 

[orfeo_monteverdi]

Stenheim Alumine 5
as a highly competitive speaker with a real 94db efficiency .

This speaker has given me a lot of beautiful hours of music, powered from 2x30w tubes up to 2x 900w solid state.
If you like a fast and dynamic speaker which is more close to the best horns, you should give them an audition.

[please forgive my poor English]

It seems that Jonathan Vallin was speechless, as he brilliantly raved about the Stenheim Alumine 5 SE (approx. $72K ?)
(Product Of The Year 2022). IIRC, he mentioned a high level blissful mix of body, density, and speed allied with transparency and dynamics. Exactly what I heard, in various proportions, with the 3 other models I listened to (Alumine Two, Alumine Two.Five, I shortly recounted my exposure to the Reference Ultime 2 X there).
For anyone who had previous exposure to live, un-amplified performances, their astonishing realism cannot be missed.

They are also ruthlessly revealing (though non-aggressive). So, e-ve-ry thing upwards is unveiled (all your gear must even be phase-aligned; a truism, but one that is truer with some speakers than others).

Even if the dealer is not in your state, they fully deserve a little journey, if necessary.
Expensive for sure, but all models I heard amazingly belied their compact size (this does not mean they systematically play with a "big" sound, cinemascope-style). They are totally amazing cone-based speakers, really.

 

[morricab]

I would say, that in this decade a speaker Design Team should be capable to realize a speaker with e reasonable efficiency , some of the shown speaker do remind me more on speaker concepts from prior year 2000.... , still good, but requiring a lot of amplifier power.
Coming from there I would recommend the

Stenheim Alumine 5

as a highly competitive speaker with a real 94db efficiency .

View attachment 115943

This speaker has given me a lot of beautiful hours of music, powered from 2x30w tubes up to 2x 900w solid state.
If you like a fast and dynamic speaker which is more close to the best horns, you should give them an audition.

If one wants one even closer to horns without really being a horn (ok the bass is a TQWT horn) then look closely at Horning speakers. Very dynamic and “horn like” without the horn.

 

[orfeo_monteverdi]

Alternatively to the Stenheims, as you listen "mostly digital":
the excellent active Grimm LS1 be (be = optional beryllium tweeter), $ 40K?
to be listened midfield (which may be nice in you case < acoustics).
The "bubble" is smaller here though: to be listened in the sweet sport, preferably.

Usually, I do not like active speakers so much. But this one is the first active I heard which totally convinced me (if live, un-amplified performance is taken as a reference). Great linearity AND great musicality.

 

[RaChiK]

I hope by now you might have heard like at least 20 speaker recs. All excellent recommendations.
I was like you when I started: trying with speakers first. Makes sense for new comers. What I learnt over time (and if I can start all over again) is keep budget 30% for speakers and rest for the source, pre-amp, amp, cables, stands and room acoustics.
I see speakers as "window" to your source components. If components are not good, speakers cannot make it any better.
You can get very good sound with good components and mediocre speakers, but definitely not other way around.
I recently moved and after trying to set up all over again, I played my system with just mediocre 10 year old home theater rear mount speakers (< 200 $). I was astonished at how good the sound was considering the speakers very mediocre. That was eye opener for me.
My few cents of speaker advise. Let it be sized based on the room, consider and learn about impedance, sensitivity, number of drivers (how it makes difference) and make sure they will be driven well by the amps which you want to use it with (or considering). Finally, when you audition, make your decision based on what those speakers were driven by when auditioning. If your components differ from your audition, then you will be surprised.
In the end, it is your journey. The fun is in the journey as there is no real destination in this hobby.
If still not too late, don't come into this never ending journey (can be taxing).

 

[Gregadd]

C
Catch a rising star.

Ideally sound should be your primary consideration. Pursuit of the Wilson\ Magico pedigree is certainly understandable. The price\performance ratio of an IO should not be overlooked. The more pragmatic approach is to determine your sonic standard and locate speakers at or below your price point. You can determine whether the price point represents good value. Every penny you save can be put somewhere else.

For example: the Arion Apollo Series

 

[chuck]

Total BS generalization about tubes. Really good tube amps do nothing of the sort and this is just a trolling comment…or lack of experience.

I hear the same smearing from tube amps. If there is a "really good tube amp" that does not smear, I'm not aware of it. I always thought tube guys like the smearing, it is a feature not a bug. Is there a tube amp that will match my Boulder 3060 in playing fine detail in recordings? Ron posted a YT video warning against chasing detail in audio, specifically calling out Boulder/YG as an example of what not to do.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron posted a YT video warning against chasing detail in audio, specifically calling out Boulder/YG as an example of what not to do.

Dear Chuck,

I never said detail is an example of what not to do. I would hope members know by now that I do not talk or write that way. This is a subjective hobby.

On pursuing hi-fi artifacts and focusing on detail I said:

"That's one perfectly legitimate way to look at things and to think about the kind of sound you like." 1:00

and

"There's nothing wrong with thinking about detail. But I just want you to understand that doesn't have to be your objective." 1:27

and

"If you choose to make a hi-fi attribute like detail your objective I totally respect that." 1:35

Yes, I cited Boulder on YG as an example of a contemporary audio system sound which treats detail as a priority. I agree with you that Boulder is a champion at reproducing fine detail in recordings. The resulting sound just is not my personal cup of tea.

 

[PeterA]

I hear the same smearing from tube amps. If there is a "really good tube amp" that does not smear, I'm not aware of it. I always thought tube guys like the smearing, it is a feature not a bug. Is there a tube amp that will match my Boulder 3060 in playing fine detail in recordings? Ron posted a YT video warning against chasing detail in audio, specifically calling out Boulder/YG as an example of what not to do.

I hear no smearing from my 18 watt SET Lamm ML2 driving my 105 DB efficient 16 ohm corner horns. There are good and bad examples of every typology.

 

[Richard Austen]

So far I've narrowed it to these speakers
What's your opinion ?
View attachment 115935View attachment 115936View attachment 115937

Ask yourself why you are buying loudspeakers. Obviously, this is the sort of budget where you are buying speakers that cost more than the yearly salary of half to 2/3rds the US population and if you can just buy it without trying them first - you are doing pretty well.

Luxury items are not bought for their value proposition or sound quality for the dollar. If the job you have in life makes you so busy that you can't spend some time auditioning at a dealer then your job in life probably also means you don't have too many hours to set aside to listen to music. And if you have plenty of hours to listen to music then listen at a dealer first.

It doesn't matter if a bunch of posters don't like the sound of one or all of these speakers. There are no products that everyone agrees upon. All three have been around long enough and have people who like them. The only way to find out is to try each of them. I would not get too far into the weeds on Solid State and Tubes and SETs and Horns and Electrostats etc. As a listener to music - I care about enjoying the records and CDs I own and whether the system puts a smile on my face. Pass that first test first - what driver the manufacturers used or how it measures in an anechoic chamber or the watts per channel is all irrelevant bullshit. Is the music you love listening to enhanced with the system you are listening to - reviews/peanut gallery forumers - it's all bullshit. Listen - does it move you - does system A make you blubber on music that should make you blubber - does it excite you when the music is exciting?

Maybe you need to pay $40k $80k $120k or hell you may only need to spend $3k - There is a LOT of Audio Jewelry - unnecessary spending on appearance and 2-inch thick copper on amplifiers that don't need it. Not long back I auditioned a big $250k system but it did nothing for me - I then auditioned a system around $15k which was fantastic - and moved me. Consider that if this happens to you that you would save a whole bunch of cash for hookers and blow.

 

[adrianywu]

I also recommend auditioning the Classic Audio speakers. After more than 2 decades of experimentation, I am now convinced that field coils is the way to go. Only electrostatics can achieve the same level of transparency and low distortion, but without the macrodynamic capabilities of a compression driver. Since Classic does not do any of the advertising/promotion like other more mainstream high end brands, they are less well known outside of the horn/high efficiency community, but they also offer much better value. I am using their midrange and bass drivers and tube field coil power supply. The next step would be to use an active crossover and multiple amps, which I find extremely rewarding. Driving the drivers directly gives a huge increase in transparency and dynamics, and one can optimise the matching of each driver and its amplifier.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I thought the Classic Audio speakers at CAF sounded wonderful. (Although I'd be very curious to hear them with Viva Aurora Monos.)

But I suspect the suggestion is not of interest to AudioGod. If he has narrowed his selection down to Wilson, Magico and Focal, he just ain't gonna cotton to a big wood refrigerator.

 

[adrianywu]

I thought the Classic Audio speakers at CAF sounded wonderful. (Although I'd be very curious to hear them with Viva Aurora Monos.)

But I suspect the suggestion is not of interest to AudioGod. If he has narrowed his selection down to Wilson, Magico and Focal, he just ain't gonna cotton to a big wood refrigerator.

The T3.4 aren't all that big, especially for speakers that each harbours two 15" bass drivers. Of course, they lack the industrial design element of the larger companies' products.