A Pilgrimage to Ground ZERO

[MatthewC]

I think you are 100% correct Matthew. The motor will indeed need its own box. The new motor and upper platter will indeed be shown with a AF0P according to the Stell news bulletin. One thing for sure, as the motor dwarfs that of the AF1, expect them to have a very big shelf. LOL.

Just read some article in a local magazine re: the tungsten upper platter.... so far it's experimental, and if it's going to be made available.... it would be in the ballpark of JPY4.5m, which is, oh, only about half the price of entire AP1 Premium (JPY9.7m.)

Great news indeed. Solved my agony of whether i should upgrade from my Ti platter

 

[JackD201]

You and me both! Too rich for my blood

 

[MatthewC]

The tungsten record stabilizer is awesome.... too bad the platter is so expensive (I guess it's a very tough material to work on).

Would really love to see it put into production though.... so maybe one day when the unobtainium platter is finally invented, I can pick up a used one

Gotta say, if the AF Zero comes with a tungsten platter, it will probably cost 3 times AF1..... if not more. And I thought analog is a mature technology!

 

[JackD201]

Your math is spot on Matthew and I'd love to try the tungsten stabilizer.

 

[MatthewC]

Your math is spot on Matthew and I'd love to try the tungsten stabilizer.

Jack, in my not so humble opinion, the tungsten stabilizer is worth the very high cost, especially if you have the ti platter. It removed the slight "jumpiness" of the ti platter, not sure if that makes any sense. Me and my friend tried a few stabilizers, including some very expensive ones (like the Dalby, Combak Harmonix 812MX, Stillpoints LPI etc) and the tungsten one is "just right". It gives much better defined (and extended) bass, neutral tonal balance and lower noise. Overall the sound is more "planted" yet very dynamic.

Not a bargain given the high cost, but I highly recommend it.

 

[JackD201]

Recommendation received loud and clear

 

[Steve Williams]

Jack, in my not so humble opinion, the tungsten stabilizer is worth the very high cost, especially if you have the ti platter. It removed the slight "jumpiness" of the ti platter, not sure if that makes any sense. Me and my friend tried a few stabilizers, including some very expensive ones (like the Dalby, Combak Harmonix 812MX, Stillpoints LPI etc) and the tungsten one is "just right". It gives much better defined (and extended) bass, neutral tonal balance and lower noise. Overall the sound is more "planted" yet very dynamic.

Not a bargain given the high cost, but I highly recommend it.

what is the cost of the tungsten stabilizer

 

[MatthewC]

what is the cost of the tungsten stabilizer

According to Stella Inc website.... The Disc Stabilizer Ultimate is JPY 400,000. It is made of tungsten and stainless steel....and weights 1.2kg (2.64 lb)

 

[Steve Williams]

so that about $3500 USD

I guess my question is more out of ignorance but with the vacuum hold down what would be the need for the tungsten stabilizer

 

[MatthewC]

so that about $3500 USD

I guess my question is more out of ignorance but with the vacuum hold down what would be the need for the tungsten stabilizer

Good question. I did find other stabilizers rather ineffective on the AF1 (like the Combak Harmonix 812MX, and even the normal TechDas stabilier.....) but for some reason the tungsten one has much more pronounced effect. Can't explain it, but once you try it, it is hard to go back....

 

[Steve Williams]

Good question. I did find other stabilizers rather ineffective on the AF1 (like the Combak Harmonix 812MX, and even the normal TechDas stabilier.....) but for some reason the tungsten one has much more pronounced effect. Can't explain it, but once you try it, it is hard to go back....

so in effect the tungsten is coloring the sound??....but in a favorable way

 

[MatthewC]

so in effect the tungsten is coloring the sound??....but in a favorable way

Hmm. I wouldn't quite put it that way, maybe there is some coloration, but it's also removed some noise/haze and allow the bass to go deeper etc. Does it have a sound....? I would think so, even tho I find it reasonable neutral tonally. It's one of those which has obvious upsides, and whatever downsize which I have yet to detect, I don't care.....

Anyone else has the tungsten stabilizer? Would love to hear more feedbacks....

 

[Steve Williams]

Hmm. I wouldn't quite put it that way, maybe there is some coloration, but it's also removed some noise/haze and allow the bass to go deeper etc. Does it have a sound....? I would think so, even tho I find it reasonable neutral tonally. It's one of those which has obvious upsides, and whatever downsize which I have yet to detect, I don't care.....

Anyone else has the tungsten stabilizer? Would love to hear more feedbacks....

well you used it to remove the "jumpiness" of the Titanium platter. I wish I knew what that meant

 

[Ron Resnick]

so that about $3500 USD

I guess my question is more out of ignorance but with the vacuum hold down what would be the need for the tungsten stabilizer

Rather than sounding ignorant that strikes me as an obvious and logical question.

 

[JackD201]

I believe the weight is incidental or not primarily meant to help keep the record flatter albeit it might help a little in that regard incidentally as well. The tungsten formulation is different from say the ones meant to be just super hard. This is meant to be some sort of vibration sink like the platter. Eats up whatever residual vibration is left after the platter, VHD and vacuum damping chambers have done their job. I'm really curious to try it. The other TD clamp made a difference but I could easily listen with or without it on. When shown the charts it became obvious why. I'm not hot one way or another for the standard clamp and some people like it more with it on like Jim and others without it like Christian. The ordinary one works mostly on the very very low frequencies which we are not sensitive too. It's also not an area I usually listen keenly for unless I'm doing set up work. I haven't seen the one for the Tungsten.

As for jumpiness, well, the Premium we heard in Hong Kong certainly had jump in spades. I don't know if that is a general trait or just recording dependent. Most tracks played were either really mellow to show off the mids or dynamic to show the other side of the spectrum. Come to think of it, I'm not sure if they were using the Tungsten thing or not. It existed at the time but my eyes were glued to the SAT arm.

 

[rockitman]

so in effect the tungsten is coloring the sound??....but in a favorable way

like any record puck...YMMV

 

[MatthewC]

.

As for jumpiness, well, the Premium we heard in Hong Kong certainly had jump in spades. I don't know if that is a general trait or just recording dependent. Most tracks played were either really mellow to show off the mids or dynamic to show the other side of the spectrum. Come to think of it, I'm not sure if they were using the Tungsten thing or not. It existed at the time but my eyes were glued to the SAT arm.

The Ti platter is definitely way more dynamic than the aluminium one, and the sound (especially percussions) seems to jump out. Sometimes, I think it's overdone (and hence "jumpiness") For some recordings, I think the dynamics overshoot, almost like ringing. The tungsten weight "cures" the overshoot but retains the explosive dynamics. Can't explain it, but if you listen to the ti platter for a while without stabilizer, I think you will know what I mean. Caveat: I also have a ti arm board and ti arm base/collar for my SAT arm (I hope Marc Gomez doesn't read this post hehe.) So maybe it's my setup being overdosed with ti parts....

As to the show in HK, I think the tungsten one was used. I was thinking why they didn't do an A-B with the normal version....

 

[Steve Williams]

The Ti platter is definitely way more dynamic than the aluminium one, and the sound (especially percussions) seems to jump out. Sometimes, I think it's overdone (and hence "jumpiness") For some recordings, I think the dynamics overshoot, almost like ringing.

is this a good thing? You need to buy a $3500 clamp to tame what the Titanium platter does. Why not just the Stainless steel platter with no hold down clamp?

Im not knocking the Titanium platter but am wondering about the ringing heard. Surely this is not a good thing

 

[JackD201]

What cart have you got on your SAT Matthew? My SAT came with an armboard for the AF1 from Marc so I'll be using that. My Ti board is made for an Elite.

 

[ddk]

like any record puck...YMMV

+1.

I have many different ones, materials, weight and shape make a difference in how they sound and it's not always the same with every tt combination. I don't hear any particular coloration from any of them, the tendency with the better ones is more overall solidity 2nd tier ones tend to also roll off the top in some instances but not always. I occasionally use the original TD weight with hot recordings but not otherwise and from Matt's description it sounds like the new one also rolls off the top end but without the brittle nature of the old one. The only weight I can universally recommend is the classic from AT; always worked as it should with every tt combination for me.

https://www.turntablelab.com/products/audio-technica-at618-disc-stabilizer

david