A Visit to AudioArts - NYC to hear CH Precision - FM Acoustics - Zellaton
- Thread starter rsorren1
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rsorren: You're living the dream! I've used the C1 alone, then with L1. Just as Gideon advised, there was no contest. At volume the depth and power of the midbass with L1 added is game changer, you will enjoy it immensely. What'll be great to hear is your audition of the FMA pre in this context. Ballsy of AudioArts to facilitate the evaluations. Please keep the thread closely posted.
Update on Zellaton Emotions: one of the primary reasons I began my prior search for new speakers was because of the overwhelming bass the previous ones. Maybe in the right room, they would've worked well. But in my small (8 x 12) room, 10 inch woofers were simply too much. No amount of room treatment or placement technique could eliminate the over emphasis and swollen lower frequencies. Before that, I had monitors with 5.25" "woofers" and that simply wasn't enough. I'm happy to report that after many hours of listening, the Zellaton Emotions are the sweet spot. It is somewhat surprising how much bass the 7 inch drivers can generate, and more importantly, generate precisely and accurately. As I previously reported, these are very linear speakers and the bass notes are, to my ears, perfectly in line with that description. Some might look at the specs and think that 45 Hz means the speakers won't go low enough. For those who listen to pipe organs and a few other somewhat obscure instruments, that may be true. But pull up an instrument frequency chart and youll see that there aren't many instruments that produce frequencies below 45 Hz. In the end, that means that I am missing out on a very small slice of very deep frequencies (assuming my ears can hear them), but I'm happy to sacrifice that for the accuracy presented by the Emotions – particularly because of their other overwhelming positive characteristics. I recognize that others will disagree and either insist upon a truly full range speaker or the addition of a subwoofer. But for my room, the Emotions' bass response is "just right."
At the risk of impairing my credibility, I'll make one additional point. As I said previously in one of my prior posts, I am more of a "music lover" than an "audiophile" (although at some level, this distinction seems a bit ridiculous). Nonetheless, as a result, the vast majority of my catalog is 16/44 rather than Hi-Rez. I've downloaded some stuff from the likes of HDTracks and I'll admit that much of it is better. I will also admit that a bad recording is simply a bad recording, and that's how it's going to sound on almost any gear. But I also have to say that the Emotions do an outstanding job of making almost anything pleasurable to listen to. When my local record/CD shop closes, and given the current market, it inevitably will, I will no doubt turn to Hi Rez as the "state of the art,". But it's not something I feel is necessary for true musical enjoyment when listening to the Emotions.
At the risk of impairing my credibility, I'll make one additional point. As I said previously in one of my prior posts, I am more of a "music lover" than an "audiophile" (although at some level, this distinction seems a bit ridiculous). Nonetheless, as a result, the vast majority of my catalog is 16/44 rather than Hi-Rez. I've downloaded some stuff from the likes of HDTracks and I'll admit that much of it is better. I will also admit that a bad recording is simply a bad recording, and that's how it's going to sound on almost any gear. But I also have to say that the Emotions do an outstanding job of making almost anything pleasurable to listen to. When my local record/CD shop closes, and given the current market, it inevitably will, I will no doubt turn to Hi Rez as the "state of the art,". But it's not something I feel is necessary for true musical enjoyment when listening to the Emotions.
All, sorry it has taken so long to post this update. A good friend of mine and I have recently had the chance to evaluate the CH Precision L1/P1/X1 combination in two different systems; his and mine. We also had an FM Acoustics 266R on hand to evaluate.
Let's start with the FM Acoustics 266R. Unfortunately, the gain was not set optimally for us to do an evaluation. The unit came unopened directly to us from the factory and gain from the CH Precision P1 or my friend's Total DAC was so high that the volume control on the 266 was not able to be turned up hardly at all. Net: evaluate FM in an ALL FM system. I've heard an all FM Acoustics system at AudioArts in NYC and the results from vinyl were magical.
Let me define the system we used to evaluate the CH Precision L1/P1/X1. My friend's system is in one of the largest best sounding listening spaces I've ever heard. The dedicated listening room is enormous, acoustically treated. The space is so large that you could actually have live performers playing instruments in it and when things are "right", it is one of the best systems I've ever heard. Fool you real with images that are scaled to real life size, impact, depth, etc. Other than my own system, I've probably spent more hours listening to my friend's system than any other. I know it fairly well. The digital front-end is a Total DAC top of the line set-up. Speakers are bi-amped Rockport Arrakis with REL six-pack subs. He uses FOUR VTL Siegfried amps to power the Arrakis. Analog front-end is Steve Dobbins "The Beat" turntable with a Schroeder Linear Tracking tone arm. Steve Dobbins joined us for the listening session and brought a new Schroeder tone arm that uses metal in the arm instead of wood. Steve also brought along a Lyra Etna SL cartridge and set-up the new arm and cartridge for my friend to evaluate. We all loved the new arm and cartridge and my friend ended up adding them both to his system. Steve is a terrific guy and an expert in all things analog. It was blast hanging with him and my good friend for the weekend.
My friend first inserted the CH Precision L1 into the system before any of us got there and let it break-in for several days. His evaluation was that the L1 was different enough than his current tube pre-amp and he wanted to proceed. The P1 arrived next and he ran that in for a few days before we got there too. I brought my X1 that has two regulator cards in it so we could hear what the X1 added to the presentation. The CH Precision P1/L1 proved to be extraordinary on their own. These are the most natural sounding, musical, components that matched beautifully to The Beat/Schroeder LT/Etna SL. When we added the X1 the noise floor, bass foundation, realism all improved. The soundstage got bigger in L-R and depth. It's easy to hear and not a small subtle improvement. It's a big improvement to an all ready outstanding set of components. We listened to several outstanding recordings but three that stood out for me as "fool you real" with the P1/L1/X1 in the system were: Belafonte Sings the Blues (Cotton Fields), Diana Krall's Wallflower (Alone Again Naturally), and Hugh Masekela's Hope (Grazin in the Grass).
When the weekend ended, we packed up the L1 and my X1 and I headed for home to do an evaluation of the CH Precision L1 in my system. To set the context, my current system is: CH Precision D1/C1/A1/X1 playing through Wilson Alexia. When I added the L1, I powered the L1 and the C1 with my X1 and plugged the D1 directly into the wall. I used several CD/SACDs to evaluate: Belafonte Sings the Blues, Diana Krall's Wallflower, Ingrid Fliter playing Schumann's Piano Concerto, Pollini's most recent Chopin recording, Ellington's Masterpieces. The L1 improved soundstage depth DRAMATICALLY. Instruments in their own space had more definition and depth of field, bass improved. The biggest improvement is the way the L1 seems to "illuminate" the images it produces from behind. The CH Precision components strong suit is that they allow you to follow ANY instrument or vocal in the mix effortlessly for the entire song in a way I never have experienced. This characteristic was improved further with the L1. Was my system "Better" with the L1? Yup. Dramatic improvements easily heard when comparing with and without the L1 in the system. I continue to believe that the CH Precision components together are greater than the sum of the parts. The results I'm getting with digital source is musical and very involving! I'm listening to the Saint-Saens Piano Concerto #1 and #2 while writing this. It's taking a long time to write this because the music is so involving that I keep putting down the iPad and just listen.
A big, well deserved, THANK YOU to Gideon Schwartz and AudioArts NYC for sending us these remarkable components for evaluation. Extraordinary service, extraordinary results! I'm adding the L1 to my system. No way to let it go!
Let's start with the FM Acoustics 266R. Unfortunately, the gain was not set optimally for us to do an evaluation. The unit came unopened directly to us from the factory and gain from the CH Precision P1 or my friend's Total DAC was so high that the volume control on the 266 was not able to be turned up hardly at all. Net: evaluate FM in an ALL FM system. I've heard an all FM Acoustics system at AudioArts in NYC and the results from vinyl were magical.
Let me define the system we used to evaluate the CH Precision L1/P1/X1. My friend's system is in one of the largest best sounding listening spaces I've ever heard. The dedicated listening room is enormous, acoustically treated. The space is so large that you could actually have live performers playing instruments in it and when things are "right", it is one of the best systems I've ever heard. Fool you real with images that are scaled to real life size, impact, depth, etc. Other than my own system, I've probably spent more hours listening to my friend's system than any other. I know it fairly well. The digital front-end is a Total DAC top of the line set-up. Speakers are bi-amped Rockport Arrakis with REL six-pack subs. He uses FOUR VTL Siegfried amps to power the Arrakis. Analog front-end is Steve Dobbins "The Beat" turntable with a Schroeder Linear Tracking tone arm. Steve Dobbins joined us for the listening session and brought a new Schroeder tone arm that uses metal in the arm instead of wood. Steve also brought along a Lyra Etna SL cartridge and set-up the new arm and cartridge for my friend to evaluate. We all loved the new arm and cartridge and my friend ended up adding them both to his system. Steve is a terrific guy and an expert in all things analog. It was blast hanging with him and my good friend for the weekend.
My friend first inserted the CH Precision L1 into the system before any of us got there and let it break-in for several days. His evaluation was that the L1 was different enough than his current tube pre-amp and he wanted to proceed. The P1 arrived next and he ran that in for a few days before we got there too. I brought my X1 that has two regulator cards in it so we could hear what the X1 added to the presentation. The CH Precision P1/L1 proved to be extraordinary on their own. These are the most natural sounding, musical, components that matched beautifully to The Beat/Schroeder LT/Etna SL. When we added the X1 the noise floor, bass foundation, realism all improved. The soundstage got bigger in L-R and depth. It's easy to hear and not a small subtle improvement. It's a big improvement to an all ready outstanding set of components. We listened to several outstanding recordings but three that stood out for me as "fool you real" with the P1/L1/X1 in the system were: Belafonte Sings the Blues (Cotton Fields), Diana Krall's Wallflower (Alone Again Naturally), and Hugh Masekela's Hope (Grazin in the Grass).
When the weekend ended, we packed up the L1 and my X1 and I headed for home to do an evaluation of the CH Precision L1 in my system. To set the context, my current system is: CH Precision D1/C1/A1/X1 playing through Wilson Alexia. When I added the L1, I powered the L1 and the C1 with my X1 and plugged the D1 directly into the wall. I used several CD/SACDs to evaluate: Belafonte Sings the Blues, Diana Krall's Wallflower, Ingrid Fliter playing Schumann's Piano Concerto, Pollini's most recent Chopin recording, Ellington's Masterpieces. The L1 improved soundstage depth DRAMATICALLY. Instruments in their own space had more definition and depth of field, bass improved. The biggest improvement is the way the L1 seems to "illuminate" the images it produces from behind. The CH Precision components strong suit is that they allow you to follow ANY instrument or vocal in the mix effortlessly for the entire song in a way I never have experienced. This characteristic was improved further with the L1. Was my system "Better" with the L1? Yup. Dramatic improvements easily heard when comparing with and without the L1 in the system. I continue to believe that the CH Precision components together are greater than the sum of the parts. The results I'm getting with digital source is musical and very involving! I'm listening to the Saint-Saens Piano Concerto #1 and #2 while writing this. It's taking a long time to write this because the music is so involving that I keep putting down the iPad and just listen.
A big, well deserved, THANK YOU to Gideon Schwartz and AudioArts NYC for sending us these remarkable components for evaluation. Extraordinary service, extraordinary results! I'm adding the L1 to my system. No way to let it go!
Great to hear about your evaluation Ralph. I have also found the CH synergy of components to compliment each other and increase the benefit, in particular, the depth of soundstage and lower noisefloor. CH has some measurements in terms of this reduced noise when using the x1 with p1 for example.
I would love to have a chance to evaluate the D1 with sync and CH link vs the Nagra transport i have feeding the c1 in my system. I see Roy Gregory tried the C1/d1 pair and was very impressed.
Chris
I would love to have a chance to evaluate the D1 with sync and CH link vs the Nagra transport i have feeding the c1 in my system. I see Roy Gregory tried the C1/d1 pair and was very impressed.
Chris
On paper, CH Precision is a tour de force in everything they make. I have my eyes on the P1, which has got to be the most thoroughly thought-out phono stage I have ever seen: XLR in-out on top of most other common connections; current-mode inputs for low-output low-internal-impedance MC (and that's the best way to do it); typical voltage-mode inputs with wizard-assisted loading and a test record to go with it; additional equalization boards; dual-mono and optional dual-chassis; optional external power supply; Android app controlled; extremely wide bandwidth and slew rate; and on and on... This is one incredibly well-thought-out and executed phono stage, and it apparently also sounds great. I've been meaning to visit AudioArts but have not been able to make an appointment... Price is not outrageous either (I read 25K euros, adjusted for local currency).
And add them to the list of manufacturers who really understand what loading is all about:
I would invite people to read up on it http://www.ch-precision.com/products/p1 and especially the manual http://www.ch-precision.com/images/usermanuals/p1_user_manual_1v1.pdf
On paper, all I can say is IMPRESSIVE
And add them to the list of manufacturers who really understand what loading is all about:
I would invite people to read up on it http://www.ch-precision.com/products/p1 and especially the manual http://www.ch-precision.com/images/usermanuals/p1_user_manual_1v1.pdf
On paper, all I can say is IMPRESSIVE
Ack,
If you're emailing Gideon, make sure to use .co (not .com) in the email address.
P1 is very good on its own $31k or you can make it true dual mono for $58k. Or you can add one or two X1 units ...
Richard Mak had the full out assault with dual mono P1 and two X1 in his system.
Chris
If you're emailing Gideon, make sure to use .co (not .com) in the email address.
P1 is very good on its own $31k or you can make it true dual mono for $58k. Or you can add one or two X1 units ...
Richard Mak had the full out assault with dual mono P1 and two X1 in his system.
Chris
Fortunately the list is very long. As far as I remember manufacturers advise you to add a resistor that used with the unit input resistance results in an equivalent to your target value - most even supply the formula with values. Nowadays with the net calculators we become lazy - see http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-parallel.htm. Perfectionist can use the cartridge setup tools at the vinylengine site calculators.
Looking forward to listening to these soon.
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2016/10/new-stenheim-alumine-five-with-fm.html?m=1#more
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2016/10/new-stenheim-alumine-five-with-fm.html?m=1#more
Congrats on the CH L1! It's been revelatory, an end of the road piece for me. In a way, using the C1/X1 alone for half a year was instructive because the C1 has a way of illuminating musical themes, imparting coherency that makes classical music so rewarding. The CH L1 added width and depth to massed strings and more timbral accuracy and fluidity across the board. What wires are being used with the L1? Is CH M1 in the cards? Hopefully my upcoming NYC visit will address these areas; and of course the full FMA system/Zellaton statements are crying out for an audition.
Thanks Kinch. I too used the C1/X1 for about six months before adding the L1 and I am in total agreement with your comments.
As far as cables: Gideon sent me Swisscables top interconnects and power cords to try in my system. Two XLR interconnects, C1 to L1 and L1 to A1. Three power cords: on the A1, D1 (since it is now not being powered by the X1), and the X1. These five cables together have added to the overall open, smooth, detailed presentation that the CH Precision components offer. They are very good and very affordable as I am not one who invests in very expensive cables.
As far as the M1 is concerned, it might represent an upgrade in the future. However, as long as I stay with the Wilson Alexia, the A1 provides all the power I need given the efficiency of my speakers and room size.
Send me a private message and let me know when you are headed to NYC. I can't wait to hear the FM Acoustics system at AudioArts too.
Not sure if the CH fans on this thread are also following the CH facebook page but they recently posted some images from the Tokyo show, including some versions of the C1 and the new T1.
Wondered what it was and Gideon has forwarded some deets about it.
Time Reference:
The T1 Time reference is a 10MHz clock generator featuring an OCXO oscillator (Oven Controlled Oscillator). It has 6 BNC outputs. For each output, you can select sinewave, squarewave or off and a high or low amplitude.
An option can be added to the T1, a GPS receiver allowing the T1 to lock itself to the best clocks ever made, the clocks embedded in satellites. The price is TBA.
Wondered what it was and Gideon has forwarded some deets about it.
Time Reference:
The T1 Time reference is a 10MHz clock generator featuring an OCXO oscillator (Oven Controlled Oscillator). It has 6 BNC outputs. For each output, you can select sinewave, squarewave or off and a high or low amplitude.
An option can be added to the T1, a GPS receiver allowing the T1 to lock itself to the best clocks ever made, the clocks embedded in satellites. The price is TBA.
Today arrived P1 in my system
I have L1,C1,2 A1 and X1 with 2 board,1 for L1 and one for P1.
I have a very good phono,Kondo GE1 and MC trans Silvercore MC PRO,but P1 is better in everything.
This CH system sound very natural like triode amp and with the performance of advantage of transistor amp.
Are really incredible.
Regards
Gianluigi
I have L1,C1,2 A1 and X1 with 2 board,1 for L1 and one for P1.
I have a very good phono,Kondo GE1 and MC trans Silvercore MC PRO,but P1 is better in everything.
This CH system sound very natural like triode amp and with the performance of advantage of transistor amp.
Are really incredible.
Regards
Gianluigi
ASR and Zellaton
Sorry to hop in the Wayback machine and pull this one from back in June, and for interrupting the CH conversation, but curious if you have any additional thoughts on the ASR/Zellaton pairing, rsorren (or anyone else for that matter). It's hard to find a single bad word even muttered about the ASR.
Sorry to hop in the Wayback machine and pull this one from back in June, and for interrupting the CH conversation, but curious if you have any additional thoughts on the ASR/Zellaton pairing, rsorren (or anyone else for that matter). It's hard to find a single bad word even muttered about the ASR.
SterlingReznor, no problem ! The ASR integrated I heard at AudioArts back in March was very impressive. I said it was tubelike in its presentation and I was very impressed with the quality of bass that was reproduced out of the Zellaton Legacy speaker. I can also tell you that in the smaller room, the soundstage was wide and deep and imaging was good. Not as laser focused as CH Precision or FM Acoustics but very good. I've not heard the Emotion but based on the synergy I heard with the smaller Zellaton, I believe this might be an outstanding pairing.
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