ack's system - end of round 1

[ack]

What the Scheet did you just buy this time

Dear son, just watch this

 

[ack]

As for timbral correctness, I brought another acid test with me, an extraordinarily well recorded CD with solo flute works by Stockhausen. I had noticed a large difference in timbre of flute between the DACs in my system. Flute sounds relatively light and very 'refreshing' on the Berkeley DAC, with apparently more timbral inflections. In comparison the Yggdrasil DAC portrays flute with a warmer, darker and more even tone. At first I was shocked about the difference, but more live experiences convinced me that the timbral portrayal of flute is correct on the Yggy2, rather than on the Berkeley DAC; most recently I heard in a concert that I attended with WBF members Peter A. and Madfloyd that warm, rather dark flute tone in Mozart's concerto for flute, harp and orchestra. While Ack's modifications have improved the Berkeley Alpha DAC, we heard in his system that the innate differences on flute remained the same, with the Berkeley still having that 'refreshing' yet slightly artificial tone. This may be one of the rather obvious timbral differences why Mike Moffat, the designer of the Yggy2, says that he does not like the nowadays common delta sigma conversion (as in the Berkeley DAC) and instead prefers 'old-fashioned' ladder DACs, as the Yggy2 is one. Schiit sells lots of delta sigma DACs because they can be made much cheaper (all their $ 100 DACs are delta sigma), but when Moffat gets serious about design he makes ladder DACs.

Indeedly, the timbral differences with flute were quite stark, with the Yggy2 outclassing anything digital I've heard in here before. I wish I'd played more flute as part of my repertoire, I would have picked up that earlier. Nonetheless, I am no longer a fan of Sigma-Delta DACs. You should also hear the metallic sound of cymbal crashes through the Yggy2, which outclassed anything I'd been able to achieve with the Alpha before, and better than any other digital I've had in here for evaluation. I'll play a track next time...

 

[Mdp632]

Indeedly, the timbral differences with flute were quite stark, with the Yggy2 outclassing anything digital I've heard in here before. I wish I'd played more flute as part of my repertoire, I would have picked up that earlier. Nonetheless, I am no longer a fan of Sigma-Delta DACs. You should also hear the metallic sound of cymbal crashes through the Yggy2, which outclassed anything I'd been able to achieve with the Alpha before, and better than any other digital I've had in here for evaluation. I'll play a track next time...

Very impressive and bold statements. However, the Berkeley Reference series and SDR-4000SV both use Delta Sigma chips.

Any product is the sum of parts. It will be interesting to see if Schiit releases their Transport companion to their DACs. Supposedly, with the newly released USB part in the YGGY is the prerequisite.

Via USB , its supposed to surpass legacy AES connection as a preferred method.

If released, will be curious if it surpass your Spectral transport feeding the Yggy2.

 

[ack]

Very impressive and bold statements. However, the Berkeley Reference series and SDR-4000SV both use Delta Sigma chips.

Any product is the sum of parts. It will be interesting to see if Schiit releases their Transport companion to their DACs. Supposedly, with the newly released USB part in the YGGY is the prerequisite.

Via USB , its supposed to surpass legacy AES connection as a preferred method.

If released, will be curious if it surpass your Spectral transport feeding the Yggy2.

I believe the criticism leveled at Delta-Sigma DACs is that they just don't sound as good. If that's the claim, I can attest to it.

Regarding my bold statements, I think it's pretty simple: nothing has Wowed me like this so far in here, and a big part of that is clarity of sound; in fact, this is the first time I have ever used the word Wow for redbook digital in here, and in all the comparisons, everything else has remained the same. I do intend to also bring in the MSB Premier, fully loaded.

Regarding USB - "show me" is my position. I believe NONE of the claims that USB can sound better than AES/EBU.

 

[ack]

Yggy2 up-close pictures

IEC socket with built-in filter and input choke; by-passed fuse (I hate fuses):


All boards, over the top power supply design:


Will try USB some day, notice 2019 revision:


SHARC and DAC chips:


Newest analog boards v2.01 / 2018:

 

[sbnx]

There is only one reason to use a delta-sigma DAC chip --- It's cheap. What I find most appalling about this is that the difference in price between a good delta sigma chip and a good multipbit dac chip is maybe $50. For the going rate of an audiophile DAC today that difference is negligible.

 

[Folsom]

Bel Canto uses them because he makes them sound better than other chips.

 

[Mdp632]

Bel Canto uses them because he makes them sound better than other chips.

And Berkeley and Spectral to name some amazing digital products. That were praised on this thread.

A great product is the sum of all parts.

I don't think we should demonize all delta sigma based Dacs as "inferior sounding" to multi-ibit counterparts.

After all after aren't ladder dacs at the mercy of their manufacturing ? The tolerances of chips themselves.

In order to achieve linearity.

That's why MSB products are more expensive as you go up the ladder. No pun intended .

 

[Folsom]

Implementation.

 

[Mdp632]

Implementation.

+1

 

[spiritofmusic]

And Berkeley and Spectral to name some amazing digital products. That were praised on this thread.

A great product is the sum of all parts.

I don't think we should demonize all delta sigma based Dacs as "inferior sounding" to multi-ibit counterparts.

After all after aren't ladder dacs at the mercy of their manufacturing ? The tolerances of chips themselves.

In order to achieve linearity.

That's why MSB products are more expensive as you go up the ladder. No pun intended .

Absolutely. My 2010 Eera Tentation cdp is delta-sigma. And it's by far the most analog-like digital I've ever heard.

 

[ack]

I have to agree with a few things: a) over-generalization should be avoided as much as possible; guilty of the same sometimes; b) the Eera is indeed a sensational player; c) indeed, sigma-delta DACs can sound really good, and will be keeping my Alpha as well for HDCD at least; and sure enough, we have praised them in here a lot of times; d) each component is the sum of all its parts

On the other hand, this Yggy2 v2.01, renders things with precision unheard of in here before. It is characteristic that my son is not aware of it in the system - it's hidden behind the rack like the Alpha - and just over the past weekend, I played for him again the Proteus 7 brass - and recall, he's playing trumpet, trombone, euphonium, piano, guitar and now sax. It didn't take him more than one track to basically say the following: "all the instruments are more dynamic and more clearly defined; the trumpet is here, the trombone is there, the tuba in the back; you also added more body in the lower registers. What did you do?" Then, interestingly enough, when I played some piano, his ear focused on an arpeggio and he pointed out how perfect it sounded!

What striked him the most is this vividness of the presentation. So I am just going to copy here the TAS blurb currently on their website, as it describes it best:

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/2019-high-end-audio-buyers-guide-dacs-1000-5000/

Like the Theta DACs of yore, the Yggy has a bold, assertive, vibrant, even vivid presentation. Because of this startling clarity, individual musical lines within complex arrangements are spatially and timbrally distinct. This has the effect of revealing each musical part with greater precision, as well as the intent of each musician—and with that comes a fuller, richer, and more complex presentation of the composition and arrangement. Transient attacks, from a hard-hit snare drum to the most delicate tap on a cymbal, are startlingly fast, defined, and vivid. If you’re looking for a DAC that does quad-rate DSD, decodes MQA, offers a volume control, and includes a headphone amp, look elsewhere. But if the very best reproduction of PCM sources is your goal, the Yggdrasil is the ticket. It’s a spectacular performer on an absolute level, and an out-of-this world bargain.

Next, I just erected a copper shield between digital and analog sections in the Yggy2, but I am not sure it did anything audible. For completeness - and because I love point/counterpoint discussions - Stereophile's measurements of the original Yggy1 were meh (especially the 1kHz tone which exhibited clear zero-crossing errors), and Amir has trashed the Yggy2 a couple of times on his website based on his measurements (though the 1kHz test is perfect there). It seems to me both places were testing it via its USB (v3 and v5 correspondingly) only, and I am tempted to say this was the wrong way to do it - I HATE USB. With respect to other reviews, some are glowing (like positive-feedback's), while others think a PS Audio DAC out-performs it, though overall system resolutions appear to be all over the place.

In closing, here's hoping to having the MSB Premier in here soon for comparison...

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ack, I'd be intrigued by the comparison, as I'm sure Al will be too.

Can a sub-$3k dac REALLY cut it in comparison to those needing a kidney sold to afford?

 

[ack]

Ack, I'd be intrigued by the comparison, as I'm sure Al will be too.

Can a sub-$3k dac REALLY cut it in comparison to those needing a kidney sold to afford?

All I can tell you is that, if the Premier lands, all local folks are already lined up to come listen

 

[Al M.]

I have to agree with a few things: a) over-generalization should be avoided as much as possible; guilty of the same sometimes;

Me too. Thinking about it I realized that I had forgotten that the Denafrips Terminator is also a ladder DAC -- yet it did exhibit a synthetic tone, especially on solo strings. This is why I got rid of it again (one day before return deadline).

So having a ladder DAC is not a guarantee for a realistic tone. Again, everything is implementation, I have to agree with Folsom.

 

[VLS]

... while others think a PS Audio DAC out-performs it ...

In closing, here's hoping to having the MSB Premier in here soon for comparison...

I'll be very interested in your impression. Al and I did an extensive level-matched (and in Al's case, blind) comparison of my old PS Audio Directstream and the Premier, and it was no contest.

 

[ack]

A Proud Audio Dad

So after 40 years in this hobby, a dream comes true - a beautiful boy becomes an accomplished lead trombonist, musician and great scientist, in time to lead his big jazz band to a win in a major national high school competition, the Charles Mingus Festival 2020... thousands of competing schools, 12 finalists, 4 categories, 4 winners. And the award for Outstanding Big Band goes to Boston Latin School; the lead trombonist solos at 3m30s

"Dad, you did this" - not really, I just facilitate things... Spectral does the rest

Flawless play, not a single cracked or missed note

 

[bonzo75]

Now, if the Boston boys could get their systems to play like these boys

 

[the sound of Tao]

A Proud Audio Dad

So after 40 years in this hobby, a dream comes true - a beautiful boy becomes an accomplished lead trombonist, musician and great scientist, in time to lead his big jazz band to a win in a major national high school competition, the Charles Mingus Festival 2020... thousands of competing schools, 12 finalists, 4 categories, 4 winners. And the award for Outstanding Big Band goes to Boston Latin School; the lead trombonist solos at 3m30s

"Dad, you did this" - not really, I just facilitate things... Spectral does the rest

Flawless play, not a single cracked or missed note

How awesome, very fierce and very cool! Must be proud Ack!

 

[VLS]

Flawless play, not a single cracked or missed note

That’s awesome! What composition are they playing?