Advice For Using A Mint Tractor

[rockitman]

They are actually both Löfgren A (Baerwald).

The issue I had was the different pivot to spindle distance between Bob and Yip and the less than accurate method of doing it with a fiekert nail inside the empty bearing housing of the Graham. More Inner groove distortion and more sibilance was the result for me when using mint and fiekert. This was on my clearaudio table. I never used mint for the AF1 as I never had one made up.

 

[puroagave]

The issue I had was the different pivot to spindle distance between Bob and Yip and the less than accurate method of doing it with a fiekert nail inside the empty bearing housing of the Graham. More Inner groove distortion and more sibilance was the result for me when using mint and fiekert. This was on my clearaudio table. I never used mint for the AF1 as I never had one made up.

exactly. the Phantom's ingenious spindle to head shell alignment procedure insures accurate distances every time and the separate jig for the cart is idiot proof. its much easier to align the stylus through the cross hairs of his jig when the cart is on it's back than any method known to me. I have yip's tractors for other arms, I realized - too late - they were no better than the universal protractor i had in my toolbox all these years.

 

[dmnc02]

The issue I had was the different pivot to spindle distance between Bob and Yip and the less than accurate method of doing it with a fiekert nail inside the empty bearing housing of the Graham. More Inner groove distortion and more sibilance was the result for me when using mint and fiekert. This was on my clearaudio table. I never used mint for the AF1 as I never had one made up.

Yes, my only gripe with the Mint is that it should have the assumed pivot-spindle distance printed on it, since it is very difficult to confirm the correct distance with an arc protractor.

If you have a Mint protractor for your Clearaudio table with the 10" Graham you could use it on the AF1 if you wanted to experiment, as the only difference is going to be in the diameter of the spindle hole, which is customized for each table.

 

[PeterA]

The MINT as made for my specific cartridge and tonearm is better than the protractor that comes standard with my SME turntable/arm. I guess everyone has different experiences.

 

[rockitman]

Yes, my only gripe with the Mint is that it should have the assumed pivot-spindle distance printed on it, since it is very difficult to confirm the correct distance with an arc protractor.

If you have a Mint protractor for your Clearaudio table with the 10" Graham you could use it on the AF1 if you wanted to experiment, as the only difference is going to be in the diameter of the spindle hole, which is customized for each table.

I am very happy and comfortable with bob's jig. Besides the tedious nature of the mint, it is almost impossible to use with low riding carts that have a cantilever tucked way back under the cart like Koetsu. I can align that cart much quicker and probably more accurately with the Graham jig than with mint. My mint days are over.

 

[number95]

In that case, be aware of the following. The manual for the Graham Phantom that still comes with Elite (until Bob updates it) states that the pivot-spindle distance for the 10" arm is 230.3mm (247mm effective length and 16.7mm overhang). However, Yip draws the Mint protractor for the 10" arm based on a pivot-spindle distance of exactly 231mm, as this is easier to measure without error.

The PTS distance Yip confirmed for my 9 inch Elite was same as Graham manual, 217.4mm with same overhang making effective length 235mm

 

[number95]

The issue I had was the different pivot to spindle distance between Bob and Yip and the less than accurate method of doing it with a fiekert nail inside the empty bearing housing of the Graham. More Inner groove distortion and more sibilance was the result for me when using mint and fiekert. This was on my clearaudio table. I never used mint for the AF1 as I never had one made up.

Yip's provided PTS distance is exactly the same as Graham's manual. Having said I am also having the same issue as fixing the right centre of pivot via feickert nail inside emptly bearing housing.

Mint was delivered to me, I was hoping to try it having said its spindle hole seems a bit too tight for my turntable, I pushed as much as I can but could not fully lock the protractor flat to the platter surface and the hole started to break slightly so I could not keep going. I will contact to Yip and will explain the issue hope he can fix the issue.

 

[rockitman]

Yip's provided PTS distance is exactly the same as Graham's manual. Having said I am also having the same issue as fixing the right centre of pivot via feickert nail inside emptly bearing housing.

Mint was delivered to me, I was hoping to try it having said its spindle hole seems a bit too tight for my turntable, I pushed as much as I can but could not fully lock the protractor flat to the platter surface and the hole started to break slightly so I could not keep going. I will contact to Yip and will explain the issue hope he can fix the issue.

On my clearaudio master innovation the distance was a bit different between yip and Graham. Based on that you can reasonably expect the zenith angle to be a bit different between the two. There is some play with the fiekert nail which compounds the error for getting the pivot to spindle exactly right. That is why I have given up on yip for Graham tonearms at least.

 

[PeterA]

Mint was delivered to me, I was hoping to try it having said its spindle hole seems a bit too tight for my turntable, I pushed as much as I can but could not fully lock the protractor flat to the platter surface and the hole started to break slightly so I could not keep going. I will contact to Yip and will explain the issue hope he can fix the issue.

I have had two MINT protractors made for me and each time I had to confirm the spindle diameter so that it is correct with no slop. If yours is too small, another one may have to be built. I suppose you could try to carefully drill out the hole slightly with a drill press.

 

[rockitman]

I suppose you could try to carefully drill out the hole slightly with a drill press.

That is a recipe for a shattered mint.

 

[number95]

That is a recipe for a shattered mint.

I sent a mail to Yip and wait for his reply. I presume the best solution is another protractor with slightly larger diameter.

 

[PeterA]

That is a recipe for a shattered mint.

I wonder how Yip creates that spindle hole in the glass. Do you think it is cut by laser or water jet?

 

[rockitman]

I wonder how Yip creates that spindle hole in the glass. Do you think it is cut by laser or water jet?

A water jet is a possibility..farmed out...very expensive machinery. Perhaps there is a special glass drill you can use on a simple press ?

 

[jcmusic]

Just wanted to get back and post my findings, I setup my Dyna 20X using the Mint Tractor it was quite a bit of work. That was ok though as I did a complete TT overhaul cleaning and greasingthe bearing, now on to cartridge alignment. I got the Dyna setup to perfection and I am completely happy with the results, the sound quality is better than what I had with the VPI jig for sure. I think and feel the key to using the Mint is alot of bright light and the correct magnafication...

 

[Sunnyboy1956]

That is a recipe for a shattered mint.

Not really. Way back I ordered a Mint for a Triplanar/Orpheus on a Gyrodec TT. Before the Mint arrived the Gyrodec was upgraded to an Orb with a larger platter and a new spindle. I forgot to mention this to Yip . The Mint spindle hole was too tight for the Orb TT . Yip asked me to use a rounded file ever so gently to enlarge the spindle hole. Worked perfectly.

 

[number95]

After Yip renewed my mint lp protractor with gradually larger spindle hole, it perfectly fitted to my Acoustic Solid t/t. I finally re aligned my ZYX Universe Premium cartridge which is now over 50 hours and this time both used Mint and Dr Feickert universal. My findings are Mint is very similar to Dr Feickert with Baerwald selected. It was good for me to try these both and getting very similar results. Dr Feickert is easier to use with Graham as when the top cap removed, the vertical bar to fix the pivot can be fixed within tonearm to have a safe pivot to spindle distance (I still do not use anti dumping liquid inside, when used this method of fixation of pivot should have some issues as the vertical bar of protractor would touch to the liquid and when removed it will take on some). I can not say the same for say Ikeda tonearm which the bearing is housed within a sphere and hard to set the pivot point via fixing with Feickert's vertical pivot bar over the sphere. Assuming when setting up the tonearm correct pivot to spindle distance is fixed, to me a tonearm like Ikeda may be easier for aligning cartridges with Mint lp. I ordered another to setup for Ikeda tonearm and will report later on.

 

[slowGEEZR]

Good. I really like what Yip's protractor did for my setup. Originally, the hole was too tight to fit the spindle on my table, but some very light sanding with a round file for about five seconds fixed it easily.

 

[thedudeabides]

Hi Steve,

Love this discussion and it also reminds me, sound quality debate aside, why I like CD's and gave up on analogue many years ago.

Life is too short and complicated enough.

Having said this, I truly admire those folks that spend the time they do in pursuit of analogue reproduction quality.

Best.

 

[slowGEEZR]

Hi Steve,

Love this discussion and it also reminds me, sound quality debate aside, why I like CD's and gave up on analogue many years ago.

Life is too short and complicated enough.

Having said this, I truly admire those folks that spend the time they do in pursuit of analogue reproduction quality.

Best.

Gordon, it's true that there is some additional effort with vinyl, but to me at least it is well worth it. Today, for example, I listened to Holly Cole's Temptation album on vinyl and was blown away by how good it sounded. This was the first time I had listened to the whole album on my new turntable and I was really enjoying it. It was so good, I decided to listen to it again, this time on digital. Sad to say, but it wasn't even close, IMO. The vinyl didn't just wipe the floor with the digital, it kicked it to the curb. Now, I have to overlook the few ticks or pops and sometimes some extra sibilance with vinyl, but the extra vividness and realism is exceptional to me.

 

[PeterA]

Gordon, it's true that there is some additional effort with vinyl, but to me at least it is well worth it. Today, for example, I listened to Holly Cole's Temptation album on vinyl and was blown away by how good it sounded. This was the first time I had listened to the whole album on my new turntable and I was really enjoying it. It was so good, I decided to listen to it again, this time on digital. Sad to say, but it wasn't even close, IMO. The vinyl didn't just wipe the floor with the digital, it kicked it to the curb. Now, I have to overlook the few ticks or pops and sometimes some extra sibilance with vinyl, but the extra vividness and realism is exceptional to me.

I've made the same comparison with Cole's "Don't Smoke in Bed." I agree, no comparison. I have both the 33 1/3 and the 45 RPM. Fantastic. I had some issues with sibilance until I started to adjust the VTA for each LP. That did trick. What a great album. I have "Temptation" on CD and will look for it on vinyl.