AF3 Premium arrived

Sep 7, 2016
296
369
220
Netherlands
#81
WoW! You picked the speakers that never sounded good at show. How brave!

You have their newest big model. I actually wanted a Beethoven but eventually decided on the modular system due to room limitation. If you can get them to sing right the first time you are very very good. Your room seems pretty much the same size as mine..maybe a little narrower and less ceiling height. What kind of bass horns you chose. Where do you put them? Your model has two 11" for midbass. Maybe you dont need the lower bass section at all. But cant take my comment seriously, I am not a bass freak.

Enjoy your listening,
Tang
Thank you Tang!
Yes but i liked them at the show and heard a lot of good things and some less but it's a show. I can understand people have problems with it at first and offcourse we all can prefer different things. With these system there is so much to customize which is a very good thing imo because no room and system is the same. And after those things are done it sounds superb (imo).

The Beethoven is also a very good system! I heard it at Ralphs home.

My room is 4.82 meter wide , 10.2 meter long and 3.85 meters high.
No basshorns yet, will do big bass horns later, first need to fill piggy bank again ;-). I am using bass system with 2 superlight 15" woofers from 32-65hz and one 18hz from 10-32hz per side at the moment, works good.
You are right because of the two 11" for midbass down to 65hz, there's not much needed below.

Thanks, Jeroen
 

gian60

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2016
2,142
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258
#82
After some months in the box,today i started to setup with Basis Superarm 9,next few days will be ready and i will try first Atlas sl,then GFS and Coralstone diamond.Torqueo is waiting a new rack.
I am curios first to listen in my home and second compare to Vyger,even if tonearm and Cartridge are completely different
 

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Kcin

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2016
276
166
130
Canada
#83
After some months in the box,today i started to setup with Basis Superarm 9,next few days will be ready and i will try first Atlas sl,then GFS and Coralstone diamond.Torqueo is waiting a new rack.
I am curios first to listen in my home and second compare to Vyger,even if tonearm and Cartridge are completely different
Beautiful,

You are a very patient man being able to have an AF3 in a box for months in your house. I would have exploded from the anticipation.

Let us know how you get on.
 
Likes: bonzo75

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
8,193
2,624
730
Beverly Hills, CA
#84
Gian,

I will be very eagerly awaiting your impressions of the comparison between the Air Force Three set-up and the Vyger set-up!!!
 

gian60

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2016
2,142
1,230
258
#85
I decide to setup only today because i was waiting to buy new rack before where to setup,but until now didn't buoght
Then i had to modified the tonearm base to put Basis and i wait
Then i am near sure Vyger is better,so i was not in hurry,if i haven't Vyger already setup immediately
Next days i will post impression,even if Cable,tonearm and Cartridge are completely different
 

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
775
766
185
Cologne, Germany
#86
My current status of lessons learned on AF3P:

- As AF3P has no integrated "suspension" system, the turntable is sensitive to placement.
(more than my former Micro Seiki SX 8000)
If you are not happy with performance, you might customize your base to the needs of AF3P.

- Different belts sound different, material and length of belt can easily heard. Tension is important too
I prefer the TechDAS recommendation: original belt with low tension

- Platter weights make a difference. if you like resolution and a more lean precise , deep base type of character, the gun metal Micro Seiki ST-10 or similar will work, more smooth with a darker character the Harmonix TU 812 will be the alternative. I like sweet and open vocals, so I use now the graphite Audio Tekne weight.

- smart Motorbase tuning: Place a small Artesania Damper on top of the Motor, diameter exactly fits.
Result is (little) more details without a change of tonal balance. As the Artesania Damper is "cheap", I like this :)
(will not work with 4 tone arms)

- Even if TechDAS are not offering Gun Metal ToneArmbases, they can make a difference, depending on the Tonearm. All original Micro Seiki Gun Metal Tonearmbases do fit, so depending on your tonearm, you should try. Principle logic is, that a heavy tonearm with high effective mass will benefit if fitted to a heavy tonearm base.

- Some tonearms to have the possibility to be fitted with a heavy nut underneath the tonearm base. This will work fine with AF3P (like SAEC, Ikeda, Fidelity Research)


more to come, still learning ...

In principle it can be said, that AF3P is much more "neutral" than AF3 or AFV. Both have in comparison a bass performance driven "jump factor" which makes fun in the beginning. In direkt comparison many friends do prefer AF3 or AFV immediately, but after a while, they realize, that AF3P is more "real".

So I am very much interested into your comparison with Vyger.
 

Vienna

VIP/Donor
Oct 14, 2018
426
374
160
44
#87
After some months in the box,today i started to setup with Basis Superarm 9,next few days will be ready and i will try first Atlas sl,then GFS and Coralstone diamond.Torqueo is waiting a new rack.
I am curios first to listen in my home and second compare to Vyger,even if tonearm and Cartridge are completely different
Complimenti! goditi la buona salute!
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
4,041
3,839
495
Bangkok
#88
Bonzo and I listened to the video of Gian's Vyger and AF3P. There are merits to both tts as much as differences. Most people disregard video of hifi system. But you will be surprise how we could pick out relevant differences and got a confirmation from Gian himself. Not a surprise to me, the difference resemble what I hear from my AS vs AF1P in my system.

Kind regards,
Tang
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
15,147
4,482
840
London
#89
Bonzo and I listened to the video of Gian's Vyger and AF3P. There are merits to both tts as much as differences. Most people disregard video of hifi system. But you will be surprise how we could pick out relevant differences and got a confirmation from Gian himself. Not a surprise to me, the difference resemble what I hear from my AS vs AF1P in my system.

Kind regards,
Tang
Sorry, I can't concur we can read that much in Gian's videos. I have heard Vyger in 6 systems. And techdas (AF1, AF1p, AF3, AF3p inclusive ) in more. Compared Vyger once, techdas five times. And with my music. There is a massive difference in presentation, different from Gian's video playing one record.
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
4,041
3,839
495
Bangkok
#90
Sorry, I can't concur we can read that much in Gian's videos. I have heard Vyger in 6 systems. And techdas (AF1, AF1p, AF3, AF3p inclusive ) in more. Compared Vyger once, techdas five times. And with my music. There is a massive difference in presentation, different from Gian's video playing one record.
Go to Gian and listen 10 more records of yours and see later if what he and I said are mostly inaccurate. ;)

Tang
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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#91
Go to Gian and listen 10 more records of yours and see later if what he and I said are mostly inaccurate. ;)

Tang
I already know in person I will agree with what Gian is saying of his TTs in person (which is what you are saying over video). On video, I won't agree
 

gian60

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2016
2,142
1,230
258
#92
I listen few today and are both wonderful but different
To let you understand better with a fast description,i am no good like Tang and others to describe sound well in English, AF3P with Basis superarm 9 and Atlas sl sound like Koetsu Coralstone diamond,very good bass and mid,very natural and fluid,good high and details but mid bass and mid high that cover a little high frequencies and seems a neutral sound little on warm side.
Has a natural dynamic where sound go out from speaker very easily and very good horizontal scene

Listening to Vyger with Opus 1 you can listen immediately sound more fast and dynamic,more transparent and more details on high frequencies and deeper bass.
This is strange because when i listen Bergmann Sindre,Atlas has more high than opus 1,while on Vyger i listen more high then AF3P with Atlas
Also more deep,but could be is the Opus 1 deeper than Atlas sl,like i listened also with Bergmann.
But i like also a lot AF3P for his natural sound
Now i understand the difference that Tang told me with his AF1P and AS 2000,seems same difference.

AF3P with Superarm 9,or similar arm, is a very good combo and can be a definitive setup for us we cannot afford to AS 2000,AF1,ecc,ecc
Vyger is a formula one with some phenomenal charateristich.

If i have to choose one i will choose Vyger

Torqueo Limited with Saec 506 is also a very good combo,but is not in these league,even if price is much cheaper and i am using with spu for normal listening and normal record
regards
to everybody
 

Lagonda

VIP/Donor
Feb 4, 2014
1,615
1,538
590
Denmark
#93
I listen few today and are both wonderful but different
To let you understand better with a fast description,i am no good like Tang and others to describe sound well in English, AF3P with Basis superarm 9 and Atlas sl sound like Koetsu Coralstone diamond,very good bass and mid,very natural and fluid,good high and details but mid bass and mid high that cover a little high frequencies and seems a neutral sound little on warm side.
Has a natural dynamic where sound go out from speaker very easily and very good horizontal scene

Listening to Vyger with Opus 1 you can listen immediately sound more fast and dynamic,more transparent and more details on high frequencies and deeper bass.
This is strange because when i listen Bergmann Sindre,Atlas has more high than opus 1,while on Vyger i listen more high then AF3P with Atlas
Also more deep,but could be is the Opus 1 deeper than Atlas sl,like i listened also with Bergmann.
But i like also a lot AF3P for his natural sound
Now i understand the difference that Tang told me with his AF1P and AS 2000,seems same difference.

AF3P with Superarm 9,or similar arm, is a very good combo and can be a definitive setup for us we cannot afford to AS 2000,AF1,ecc,ecc
Vyger is a formula one with some phenomenal charateristich.

If i have to choose one i will choose Vyger

Torqueo Limited with Saec 506 is also a very good combo,but is not in these league,even if price is much cheaper and i am using with spu for normal listening and normal record
regards
to everybody
Very nice description Gian !
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
4,942
1,677
680
Utah
#94
I listen few today and are both wonderful but different
To let you understand better with a fast description,i am no good like Tang and others to describe sound well in English, AF3P with Basis superarm 9 and Atlas sl sound like Koetsu Coralstone diamond,very good bass and mid,very natural and fluid,good high and details but mid bass and mid high that cover a little high frequencies and seems a neutral sound little on warm side.
Has a natural dynamic where sound go out from speaker very easily and very good horizontal scene

Listening to Vyger with Opus 1 you can listen immediately sound more fast and dynamic,more transparent and more details on high frequencies and deeper bass.
This is strange because when i listen Bergmann Sindre,Atlas has more high than opus 1,while on Vyger i listen more high then AF3P with Atlas
Also more deep,but could be is the Opus 1 deeper than Atlas sl,like i listened also with Bergmann.
But i like also a lot AF3P for his natural sound
Now i understand the difference that Tang told me with his AF1P and AS 2000,seems same difference.

AF3P with Superarm 9,or similar arm, is a very good combo and can be a definitive setup for us we cannot afford to AS 2000,AF1,ecc,ecc
Vyger is a formula one with some phenomenal charateristich.

If i have to choose one i will choose Vyger

Torqueo Limited with Saec 506 is also a very good combo,but is not in these league,even if price is much cheaper and i am using with spu for normal listening and normal record
regards
to everybody
Dear Gian,
Unfortunately the cartridges you picked for this comparison couldn't be any different from one another and add to that the differences in tonearms and conclusions you reached about the turntables are IMO moot. I don't t know he Basis tonearm so I can't comment but the coral stone Koetsu is a very colored punch hifi cartridge and Opus 1 is one of the most natural, nuanced pure sounding MC cartridges I ever heard. I'm not saying not to like it but IMO one can't make a determination for any turntable using the Coralstone.

Just a suggestion but with so many variables you should at least keep the cartridges the same if you're testing and comparing.

Keep playing :)!

david
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
15,147
4,482
840
London
#95
David, he has the Opus on Vyger and Atlas SL on the Basis on the AF3.

He used coralstone with diamond cantilever as an analogy
 
Likes: Lagonda

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
4,942
1,677
680
Utah
#96
David, he has the Opus on Vyger and Atlas SL on the Basis on the AF3.

He used coralstone with diamond cantilever as an analogy
You're right I missed that but still when set up correctly difference between the Opus1 vs the Atlas is exactly as he's describing it.

david
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
3,007
1,629
420
UK
#97
I already know in person I will agree with what Gian is saying of his TTs in person (which is what you are saying over video). On video, I won't agree
Correct me if I am wrong Ked but this video comparison is using different carts? - I wouldn’t draw any conclusions whatsoever from mixed cart compares between TTs.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
15,147
4,482
840
London
#98
Correct me if I am wrong Ked but this video comparison is using different carts? - I wouldn’t draw any conclusions whatsoever from mixed cart compares between TTs.
Yes
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
3,007
1,629
420
UK
#99

Kcin

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2016
276
166
130
Canada
I listen few today and are both wonderful but different
To let you understand better with a fast description,i am no good like Tang and others to describe sound well in English, AF3P with Basis superarm 9 and Atlas sl sound like Koetsu Coralstone diamond,very good bass and mid,very natural and fluid,good high and details but mid bass and mid high that cover a little high frequencies and seems a neutral sound little on warm side.
Has a natural dynamic where sound go out from speaker very easily and very good horizontal scene

Listening to Vyger with Opus 1 you can listen immediately sound more fast and dynamic,more transparent and more details on high frequencies and deeper bass.
This is strange because when i listen Bergmann Sindre,Atlas has more high than opus 1,while on Vyger i listen more high then AF3P with Atlas
Also more deep,but could be is the Opus 1 deeper than Atlas sl,like i listened also with Bergmann.
But i like also a lot AF3P for his natural sound
Now i understand the difference that Tang told me with his AF1P and AS 2000,seems same difference.

AF3P with Superarm 9,or similar arm, is a very good combo and can be a definitive setup for us we cannot afford to AS 2000,AF1,ecc,ecc
Vyger is a formula one with some phenomenal charateristich.

If i have to choose one i will choose Vyger

Torqueo Limited with Saec 506 is also a very good combo,but is not in these league,even if price is much cheaper and i am using with spu for normal listening and normal record
regards
to everybody
Hi Gian,

What base are you using for your AF3P?
 

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