Amps for Raidho D3's

[mbovaird]

I've just placed my order yesterday for a new pair of Raidho D3's. I'm very much looking forward to getting them as I absolutely loved the D1's and D2's.

I have been auditioning amps/preamps for the better part of 3 months now. I have auditioned Constellation, Soulution, D'Agostino, Vitus, Boulder, Strumento and numerous others.

I have narrowed it down to Soulution 501/520 and D'Agostino Monos with either the Constellation Virgo or Soulution 520.

I have a dedicated 15 x 25 room.

I would welcome some thoughts on the matter. Thank you.

Mike

 

[asiufy]

Since you eliminated the Boulder from the shortlist, I'd go with the Constellations. I've heard the pair, right next to the Soulution pair, and much preferred the Constellation. It's much warmer than the Soulution.


alexandre

 

[mbovaird]

Since you eliminated the Boulder from the shortlist, I'd go with the Constellations. I've heard the pair, right next to the Soulution pair, and much preferred the Constellation. It's much warmer than the Soulution.


alexandre

Thank you Alexandre. I eliminated the Boulder because it sounds a little dated and not SOTA (sorry). I don't think bragging that your design hasn't changed in 11 or 14 years or whatever it was - is a good thing. Just my opinion though. Next to the Dag, it was a plea of no contest. Not trying to start an argument, as I'm sure the Boulder gear would sound terrific on certain speakers, and there is no arguing the impeccable build quality and design and its price for performance is excellent. But I digress....

As for the Constellation, I eliminated the Constellation due to their anemic bass. Yes, yes, yes, they sound terrific in the mids and highs, but with Raidho speakers, it requires some real out of the box thinking. You must control the bass. Get the bass under control and the rest takes care of itself. I tried some Class-D amps, but they still sounded like Class-D amps. Next...

Tubes don't work on Raidho's IMO (sadly, since I'm a long time tube guy happily poking at the SS folks!). My ARC amps on my D1's had more flab than an old lady getting out of a tub at a nursing home.

My Classe CAM600's did a much better job.

The incredibly hard diamond woofers need incredible, thunderous bass control. Hence the reason I'm down to Soulution, D'Agostino and possibly Vitus.

Thank you.

 

[Steve williams]

I read the specs on the Raidho site re the D3 and they commented that they have had very good results with some tube amps

 

[mbovaird]

I read the specs on the Raidho site re the D3 and they commented that they have had very good results with some tube amps

With certain types of music (light classical, soft jazz), yes, I would agree. But generally speaking, that has not been my findings (unfortunately!)

 

[Jazzhead]

Congratulation firstly on a great acquisition . Have you thought of going the tube pre / SS power amp route . Should give you a good mix of tube dimensionality coupled with SS power to handle the deep bass . I am using the WAVAC PRT 1 / Vitus combo and works very well for me .

 

[mbovaird]

Congratulation firstly on a great acquisition . Have you thought of going the tube pre / SS power amp route . Should give you a good mix of tube dimensionality coupled with SS power to handle the deep bass . I am using the WAVAC PRT 1 / Vitus combo and works very well for me .

Thank you! I tried my ARC REF 10 with my Classe CAM600's and it was 80% better....but it wasn't until I added the SS preamp (CP800) that everything tightened up.

Mike

 

[asiufy]

Thank you Alexandre. I eliminated the Boulder because it sounds a little dated and not SOTA (sorry). I don't think bragging that your design hasn't changed in 11 or 14 years or whatever it was - is a good thing. Just my opinion though. Next to the Dag, it was a plea of no contest. Not trying to start an argument, as I'm sure the Boulder gear would sound terrific on certain speakers, and there is no arguing the impeccable build quality and design and its price for performance is excellent. But I digress....

As for the Constellation, I eliminated the Constellation due to their anemic bass. Yes, yes, yes, they sound terrific in the mids and highs, but with Raidho speakers, it requires some real out of the box thinking. You must control the bass. Get the bass under control and the rest takes care of itself. I tried some Class-D amps, but they still sounded like Class-D amps. Next...

Tubes don't work on Raidho's IMO (sadly, since I'm a long time tube guy happily poking at the SS folks!). My ARC amps on my D1's had more flab than an old lady getting out of a tub at a nursing home.

My Classe CAM600's did a much better job.

The incredibly hard diamond woofers need incredible, thunderous bass control. Hence the reason I'm down to Soulution, D'Agostino and possibly Vitus.

Thank you.

You're right indeed, the Constellation is not particularly impressive in the bass area. It is fast, and can deliver a punch, but it surely doesn't sound its 500W or so, or perhaps I was expecting more bass, and it delivered a more measured performance.
The only reason I didn't mention the D'Agostino is because I haven't heard them yet But from all you mention, you're better off with it, because, AFAIK, Vitus' best are the low-power Class A stuff, which still wouldn't suit your D3.
Again, I emphasize, to stay away from the Soulution. It does have lots of power, but in the long run, you'll find it lacking.
As for the Boulder... Well, my darTZeel 108 is a 10-year old project by now (maybe more, since Hervé started working on it earlier). And none of those new SOTA amps beat it, at least on the speakers I had here. Boulder actually just updated their line, so perhaps it's time for another look?



alexandre

 

[mbovaird]

You're right indeed, the Constellation is not particularly impressive in the bass area. It is fast, and can deliver a punch, but it surely doesn't sound its 500W or so, or perhaps I was expecting more bass, and it delivered a more measured performance.
The only reason I didn't mention the D'Agostino is because I haven't heard them yet But from all you mention, you're better off with it, because, AFAIK, Vitus' best are the low-power Class A stuff, which still wouldn't suit your D3.
Again, I emphasize, to stay away from the Soulution. It does have lots of power, but in the long run, you'll find it lacking.
As for the Boulder... Well, my darTZeel 108 is a 10-year old project by now (maybe more, since Hervé started working on it earlier). And none of those new SOTA amps beat it, at least on the speakers I had here. Boulder actually just updated their line, so perhaps it's time for another look?



alexandre

Yes, I'm anxious to hear the new Boulder amps. The 3 series are some big bad boys!

I've never heard the Dart gear - but definitely want to.

You must hear the D'Agostino. They are so liquid and musical. Dan has somehow managed to smush together the best of tubes and the best of solid state. An amazing accomplishment.

I loved the sound of the Soulution gear. And the fact that Michael (President of Raidho) uses the Soulution 501/520 in his own home, has me really thinking in that direction. My conversations with Lars (of Raidho) have also been very educational and have lead me to Soulution and possibly Jeff Rowland 725's (still need to audition). Lars loves the 725's on his D3's. Michael prefers the Soulution.

A friend of mine is about to get a pair of D3's and he has a full D'Agostino setup. I can't wait to hear it.

Mike

 

[Jazzhead]

THE D'Agostino's have , quoting M.Fremer "a feminine melt " , slinky in the right set-up . Do not be misled by the Vitus specs . They are in my experience rather conservative . Those U-I transformers are capable of dealing with punishing loads . Vitus is developing a Stereo version of their 4 piece Master mono amp . It should go up against the Boulder 3060 ,performance and price wise too . All the best in your quest , look forward to reading on how it evolves .

 

[mbovaird]

THE D'Agostino's have , quoting M.Fremer "a feminine melt " , slinky in the right set-up . Do not be misled by the Vitus specs . They are in my experience rather conservative . Those U-I transformers are capable of dealing with punishing loads . Vitus is developing a Stereo version of their 4 piece Master mono amp . It should go up against the Boulder 3060 ,performance and price wise too . All the best in your quest , look forward to reading on how it evolves .

The Vitus is still in the running. I heard it in several setups and it has never failed to impress - top to bottom, left to right, front to back. It might have, the best bass I've heard in an amp. It handled these Magico S5's with an iron fist. That was such an impressive pairing, I was reaching for my check book for the whole lot!

When I heard the Constellation on the same speakers, the bass on the S5's went from a 10/10 with the Vitus to a 2/10 with the Constellation. No punch. No slam. No descending to the frequency depths like other amps. I felt like the old ladies on the Wendy's commercial...."where's the bass?" If you have a speaker with great bass, but need a gorgeous midrange and tweeter - the Constellation is it. If you want an amp with tight, fast, articulate, deep, powerful bass....look elsewhere IMO.

The Soulution has this ability to seemingly go lower, with a super firm grip on the bass, but it's not overdone or uncontrolled. I've heard amps with more bass, but none as well controlled or well defined.

The D'agostino monos are an emotional amp. They integrate you into the music, better than any other amp I've heard. Their ease, their flow, without any lack of detail and with its well proportioned bass (not too much, not too little...just right! ) To say I melted when I heard them, would be an understatement. The musical flow was as close to live as I've ever experienced.

If I had to pick this second, it would be D'Ag monos and Soulution 520 preamp (talk about a guy who can't make up his mind, huh?). I have no interest in the D'Ag preamp. Too many friends who own it, complain about it. I'm sure it sounds good, but flashing lights (when on mute), a remote that needs its batteries changed weekly, the goofy tone controls (+1 bass = -1 treble), etc. - are all turn offs for me. I'm sure people a lot smarter than me will figure out its short comings and get it fixed....but for now....it's not in consideration.

Mike

 

[Frank750]

Thank you! I tried my ARC REF 10 with my Classe CAM600's and it was 80% better....but it wasn't until I added the SS preamp (CP800) that everything tightened up.

Mike

Interesting, you're saying a $5000 pre amp bests the REF 10?

 

[mbovaird]

Interesting, you're saying a $5000 pre amp bests the REF 10?

On the Raidho's, yes.

Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying. The REF10 clobbers the Classe on every speaker I've owned and tried them on. But when it comes to the Raidho's, they need speed and quickness. Tubes just slow them down. You can hear the woofers - even with just the tube preamp - make a very loose "wah wah wah" sound with bass notes.

 

[NorthStar]

I've just placed my order yesterday for a new pair of Raidho D3's. I'm very much looking forward to getting them as I absolutely loved the D1's and D2's.

I have been auditioning amps/preamps for the better part of 3 months now. I have auditioned Constellation, Soulution, D'Agostino, Vitus, Boulder, Strumento and numerous others.

I have narrowed it down to Soulution 501/520 and D'Agostino Monos with either the Constellation Virgo or Soulution 520.

I have a dedicated 15 x 25 room.

I would welcome some thoughts on the matter. Thank you.

Mike

Hi Mike,

First, congratulations! :b

I don't have the personal experience or/and expertise on the right component's matching from the above mentioned brands.
The why of me replying to your post is very simple, only a very small mention: your room, it is a perfect multiple of five (5), which is tough to get all things right (balanced bass in particular). ...Just saying, as it perhaps would be beneficial to have some minimum room's treatments to accommodate better the right matching amp and preamp with your new fantastic loudspeaker's acquisition.

I've read every post from your thread, and your room's dimensions kept staying behind my mind.

Have the best day today. :b

 

[mbovaird]

Hi Mike,

First, congratulations! :b

I don't have the personal experience or/and expertise on the right component's matching from the above mentioned brands.
The why of me replying to your post is very simple, only a very small mention: your room, it is a perfect multiple of five (5), which is tough to get all things right (balanced bass in particular). ...Just saying, as it perhaps would be beneficial to have some minimum room's treatments to accommodate better the right matching amp and preamp with your new fantastic loudspeaker's acquisition.

I've read every post from your thread, and your room's dimensions kept staying behind my mind.

Have the best day today. :b

Thanks. Yes, it isn't ideal I admit. But...it is what it is!

 

[LenWhite]

I've just placed my order yesterday for a new pair of Raidho D3's. I'm very much looking forward to getting them as I absolutely loved the D1's and D2's.

Congratulations!! I've owned the C3's since 2010 and upgraded the tweeters to 3.1's in 2012. I'm driving them with the Lindemann 830S preamp and 855 stereo amp. and I agree they're very fast with great dynamics and articulation. I can only imagine what the new diamond drivers combined with Raidho's brilliant tweeter are capable of sounding like. I absolutely love my C3's

 

[mbovaird]

Congratulations!! I've owned the C3's since 2010 and upgraded the tweeters to 3.1's in 2012. I'm driving them with the Lindemann 830S preamp and 855 stereo amp. and I agree they're very fast with great dynamics and articulation. I can only imagine what the new diamond drivers combined with Raidho's brilliant tweeter are capable of sounding like. I absolutely love my C3's

Len - that's great to hear! I can't wait to hear my D3's in my room. The D1's were magic...I can only imagine what the extra drivers and midrange does!

 

[katylied]

Raidho speakers like power, the more the better at least in my experience with the C series (I was Raidho dealer for some years). I've got wonderful sound with the big VTL (MB450, S400 and Siegfried) but also the smaller ST150 was capable to gave excellent performances on C2 and C3 in a small room. FWIW, few years ago I had a demo in my store with Lars, using some BelCanto amps (not the Ref1000) and everyone was astonished by the results. Speakers matters!

 

[joeinid]

How do you think the Conrad Johnson ART monos will work on Raidho D3's?

Raidho speakers like power, the more the better at least in my experience with the C series (I was Raidho dealer for some years). I've got wonderful sound with the big VTL (MB450, S400 and Siegfried) but also the smaller ST150 was capable to gave excellent performances on C2 and C3 in a small room. FWIW, few years ago I had a demo in my store with Lars, using some BelCanto amps (not the Ref1000) and everyone was astonished by the results. Speakers matters!

 

[4music]

Mike,

I drive my Raidho D1's with Ypsilon Aelius with outstanding results

Tim