Amps for Raidho D3's

[Hyperion]

Wow...very exciting! Given your location, I would be interested in your thoughts on Vitus and Gryphon with Raidho as well...much tougher for people to find in the States but relatively straightforward in Europe.

Well, Gryphon is VERY hard to come by in Scandinavia as well (go figure). They seem to focus most of their attention on the Asian markets these days. Vitus on the other hand might be within reach. But, I'm not a big fan of their rather confusing product lines to be honest, where the top offerings are also becoming very, and I mean very expensive.

 

[4music]

Interested in differences between D1 and D2 or D3. Own the D1 and consider upgrading to either. Room dimensions 4m x 7m x 2.4m. Speakers are positioned at the short wall with 2.9m distance between them.

Btw The Raidhos D1 are extremely sensitive in cabling. The mid bass warmth could be altered just by cabling. Changing from Jorma Origo to Ansuz in either power or speaker cable made a tremendous difference. IMHO the speakers need very low inductance speaker cable. The Valhalla 2 underperformed the entry level Ansuz P.

 

[mbovaird]

Interested in differences between D1 and D2 or D3. Own the D1 and consider upgrading to either. Room dimensions 4m x 7m x 2.4m. Speakers are positioned at the short wall with 2.9m distance between them.

Btw The Raidhos D1 are extremely sensitive in cabling. The mid bass warmth could be altered just by cabling. Changing from Jorma Origo to Ansuz in either power or speaker cable made a tremendous difference. IMHO the speakers need very low inductance speaker cable. The Valhalla 2 underperformed the entry level Ansuz P.

I've owned the D1 and now D3. I've heard the D2, C1.1, C4.1, etc. The biggest leap in performance is definitely D1 to D3. A much bigger, fuller sound with the D3 creating an even bigger wall of sound and a level of transparency that is unmatched in my experiences.

That being said, given your room dimensions, the D2 might be a better fit. The D3's mid bass can over power a room if not setup correctly or if in too small of a room. You are truly on the bubble with your room. You could go either D2 or D3. If you don't blast it and you pay special attention to cabling, amplification, etc - then the D3 may fit in nicely.

Just keep in mind that regardless of whether you go with D2 or D3, they require a minimum of 250 hours to break in and you must pay careful attention to placement. Mine are 3 feet from the back wall (measured from back of speaker to wall) and 2 feet from the side wall (measured from side wall to the outside edge of the speaker). Mine are toed in with the tweeters pointing at each respective shoulder (left speaker at left shoulder). Mine are about 11 feet apart and I sit about 10 feet back.

It has been my experience that a modestly powered amp (100-200 watts) sounds better than a 600-1000 watt behemoth on the D3's. The reason being is that megawatt amps tend to be more pronounced in the bass/mid-bass region - which is not what you want with Raidho D3's. They have plenty of bass. Raidho's are voiced with a moderately powered integrated.

To date, the best amp I have demoed has been the VAC 100/100 (now replaced by the VAC phi200). I think a pair of VAC phi200's (run in mono) might just be the ticket.

 

[4music]

Thanks for the input.

On the amplifier front I've heard my D1s with Lamm M1.2Ref, Burmester 911mk3 and with Ypsilon Aelius monos. All worked very well with perhaps best bass coming from the very high damping factor Burmester, but the pairing with the zero feedback hybrid Ypsilon (200wpc out of which the 60w are in Class A) is pure magic. The Ypsilon posseses tremendous transparency (2 amplification stages only) and microdynamic details that thrive on the Raidho D1. Ended up buying the Ypsilons.

 

[LL21]

Thanks for the input.

On the amplifier front I've heard my D1s with Lamm M1.2Ref, Burmester 911mk3 and with Ypsilon Aelius monos. All worked very well with perhaps best bass coming from the very high damping factor Burmester, but the pairing with the zero feedback hybrid Ypsilon (200wpc out of which the 60w are in Class A) is pure magic. The Ypsilon posseses tremendous transparency (2 amplification stages only) and microdynamic details that thrive on the Raidho D1. Ended up buying the Ypsilons.

Congrats...I have heard the Ypsilon ref monos...great stuff. I heard them with Boulder 2010 DAC and YG Anat Ref IIs and was amazed at the resolution. I think instinctively I would prefer your particular setup, but I walked away with a lot of respect for the equipment I heard that day.

 

[defride]

My experience backs up the Ypsilon/Raidho synergy. It was a while ago but a full suite with C1 was memorable to this day. If you've an opportunity to demo I'd think it'd be time well spent.

 

[Joshnovak]

Hello Everyone i am also an owner of the Magical Raidho D3 - I agree that the speakers need 250 hours break-in - i think in modern speaker technology
Raidho is very special, i had the D1 and upgraded to the D3 and i also upgraded my power amplifier(s) to Audia Flight Strument 8 Monos - I think this combo
is fantastic ; even being a mono block with high power output the power with the raidhos are so refined to a point that it is seamlessly beautiful and especially after
the 300 hour mark.

I previously owned the Lansche 5.1 Series Passive speaker with Plasma Tweeter,Harbeth M40.1, and Quad 2805 Electrostatic.

I think the Raidho D3s are the only speakers which can bring a little bit of everything from all this speakers into a beautiful single box and making up for
the shortcoming of the other speakers i owned, the Lansche had bass problems, harbeth not so resolving in some recordings, and Quad's come a wonderful second
place to the radios, sadly the quads had big reliability issue as the panel failed on me twice.


Cheers!

 

[Alpinist]

Hello Everyone i am also an owner of the Magical Raidho D3 - I agree that the speakers need 250 hours break-in - i think in modern speaker technology
Raidho is very special, i had the D1 and upgraded to the D3 and i also upgraded my power amplifier(s) to Audia Flight Strument 8 Monos - I think this combo
is fantastic ; even being a mono block with high power output the power with the raidhos are so refined to a point that it is seamlessly beautiful and especially after
the 300 hour mark.

I previously owned the Lansche 5.1 Series Passive speaker with Plasma Tweeter,Harbeth M40.1, and Quad 2805 Electrostatic.

I think the Raidho D3s are the only speakers which can bring a little bit of everything from all this speakers into a beautiful single box and making up for
the shortcoming of the other speakers i owned, the Lansche had bass problems, harbeth not so resolving in some recordings, and Quad's come a wonderful second
place to the radios, sadly the quads had big reliability issue as the panel failed on me twice.


Cheers!

Hi Josh,

Congrats on your Raidho D3's! I also have a new pair of Raidho D3's to go with my Esoteric K-01 Player, Soulution 520 Preamp and Soulution 501 mono amps. They are the most lifelike sounding speakers I've ever had the pleasure to listen to. From my conversations with those who own D3's, the actual break-in time is approximately 550 hours for the bass response to fully normalize and for the ribbon tweeter to completely smooth out. My D3's currently have under 100 hours on them so I'll need to be patient for quite awhile. But so far, in my opinion, the D3's are already a big step up in sound quality from my Revel Salon 2's, which are great sounding speakers in their own right.

Cheers,
Ken

 

[morricab]

With certain types of music (light classical, soft jazz), yes, I would agree. But generally speaking, that has not been my findings (unfortunately!)

What about CAT tube amps? I have heard the JL2 signature and it isn't the least bit flabby sounding on some demanding speakers (big Apogees for example).

 

[Alpinist]

What about CAT tube amps? I have heard the JL2 signature and it isn't the least bit flabby sounding on some demanding speakers (big Apogees for example).

I twice auditioned a fully broken-in pair of Raidho D3's with Ansuz Diamond cabling and Absolare tube preamp & amps (50 watts, Class A) and they sounded truly outstanding. The bass was not flabby at all.

Ken

 

[ingul]

Hi Mbovaird

You are right about the D3 tendancy to overpower rooms of 35 sq or less with too much bass. My set up excites the room at about 90hz. Raidho supplied me with a kit which involved taking the bass units out and obstructing some of the perforations on plates behind the units. This has not tamed the bass. Bass traps might be the answer but so might swapping out of my elderly Krells. Keen to know if anyone else has embarked on bass control with D3s.

 

[maslak34]

Ypsilon set 100 ultimates if you want to spend big bucks are a prefect match for raidho's
If not relatively reachable ypsilon aelius monos are also sublime with raidhos

 

[morricab]

Thank you Alexandre. I eliminated the Boulder because it sounds a little dated and not SOTA (sorry). I don't think bragging that your design hasn't changed in 11 or 14 years or whatever it was - is a good thing. Just my opinion though. Next to the Dag, it was a plea of no contest. Not trying to start an argument, as I'm sure the Boulder gear would sound terrific on certain speakers, and there is no arguing the impeccable build quality and design and its price for performance is excellent. But I digress....

As for the Constellation, I eliminated the Constellation due to their anemic bass. Yes, yes, yes, they sound terrific in the mids and highs, but with Raidho speakers, it requires some real out of the box thinking. You must control the bass. Get the bass under control and the rest takes care of itself. I tried some Class-D amps, but they still sounded like Class-D amps. Next...

Tubes don't work on Raidho's IMO (sadly, since I'm a long time tube guy happily poking at the SS folks!). My ARC amps on my D1's had more flab than an old lady getting out of a tub at a nursing home.

My Classe CAM600's did a much better job.

The incredibly hard diamond woofers need incredible, thunderous bass control. Hence the reason I'm down to Soulution, D'Agostino and possibly Vitus.

Thank you.

Boulder was never SOTA, despite what the magazines say...10 or 14 years later won't change that.

I still don't get what the big deal is about Constellation's sound...except that it beats Soulution and they are huge amps and I guess guys like that.

All the more reason not to go with Raidho speakers, although I don't think you should discount all tube amps simply because ARC (far from SOTA for tube amps IMO) can't do the job. Try a CAT amp or a pair of KR Audio monoblocks and I think you will realize that it is possible to get good, natural sounding, bass from tube amps.

However, if you are actually seriously considering Soulution then I cannot imagine you like natural sound...it is nowhere to be found with this brand. I live in Switzerland and have heard them now numerous times with numerous speakers always with the same disastrous results...I do mean disastrous...images of Halcro flit through my mind.

Vitus sounds pretty good...for SS...but it is a bit dark sounding IMO like BAT VK SS amps.

Of the ones mentioned the DAG is probably the best but still behind what i have heard from the better tube products out there for a similar price.

 

[Alpinist]

Hi Mbovaird

You are right about the D3 tendancy to overpower rooms of 35 sq or less with too much bass. My set up excites the room at about 90hz. Raidho supplied me with a kit which involved taking the bass units out and obstructing some of the perforations on plates behind the units. This has not tamed the bass. Bass traps might be the answer but so might swapping out of my elderly Krells. Keen to know if anyone else has embarked on bass control with D3s.

Hi Ingul,

I own the Raidho D3, Version 2. My speakers are new and came with the bass modification you described. There are several things you can do to reduce the bass response. Here are a few, starting with the least expensive first.

1) Make sure the D3's are pulled out as far from the front wall as possible (while avoiding any bass nodes in your room).
2) Roll up socks and place them in the bass ports (sounds crude but inexpensive and works).
3) Cover over more of the perforations with the acoustic material in the bass modification kit.
4) Place granite slabs underneath the speakers (will tighten bass).
5) Interconnects and speaker cables that have a neutral or slightly recessed bass response (Kimber Select, Ansuz and Nordost all work well).
6) Make sure your power and grounding are properly addressed (Ansuz Mainz 8 Power Distributor & Earth Grounding will make a difference).
7) Amps with a high damping factor will control the D3 woofers more effectively (My Soulution 501 mono amps sound wonderful and control D3 bass like no other).

Best of luck,
Ken

 

[maslak34]

Is there a problem with Raidhos playing loud?

Are they only moderate sound level speakers?

 

[johndoe21ro]

No word from Mike...
Any news?


P.S. It's probably late and you've probably settled for an amplifier or cables but I'd try the Jeff Rowland 725s, the BAT VK-655SE and the top of the line AudioQuest cables (Wild Blue Yonder/WEL Signature). I believe that JR gear and AQ cables are a very good match for Raidho's!

 

[normsteinke]

I am not sure where you are located but I was in the Audio Salon in Miami, they are big fans of the Raidho speakers. They had them on display with the Burmester 032 integrated and also played the Burmester 911. Sounded great as expected. The Raidho's are one of my favourites.

 

[ingul]

Hi ken

Thanks for coming back to me.

In fact Raidho came to see me and covered up 4 of the perforations. This certainly made a difference. I also bought an Ansuz Mainz 8 power distributor, power cables for the amps and speaker cables and Ansuz vibration control blocks for speakers, pre and power units and my dCs Vivaldi (Frits was very persuasive). After a period of running in I feel the sound is better. However I am still suspicious that my combination of Constellation Virgo II and Krell 400e mono blocks are not the final word in tight articulate bass with the Raidho D3.
So if I do go for an amplification change I am thinking going down the Soulution 725 (plus phono) and 711 route but am struggling with whether to go Constellation Perseus with the keep the Virgo II then just swap the old Krells for Soulution 7 series stereo power. All views welcome

 

[Barry2013]

My albeit limited experience of Soulution mirrors Morricab's earlier comments.
I find Vitus amps so much more natural and musical.

 

[ingul]

Thanks Barry


If only one could have the opportunity to line up all these amps side by side !