They don't provide too many specs on the units but whatever Dieter and the company are doing, WORKS VERY WELL!!! Every time I sit down to listen, I am constantly amazed, and happy.
Joe
Anyone familiar with Burmester amps?
- Thread starter caesar
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They don't provide too many specs on the units but whatever Dieter and the company are doing, WORKS VERY WELL!!! Every time I sit down to listen, I am constantly amazed, and happy.
Joe
Yes. I don't know how to describe it except to say it just sounds so right and organic.
Those are fighten' words on this here forum.
Hi mep,
Bring it on
. Seriously, The gear is really nice and it's nice to have variety. I still want to listen (and maybe buy) the new Bryston sst squared amps and the new McIntosh MC601 series amps. I don't think I will ever sell my Burmester unless I move up the line (not likely) but it's fun to mix it up. Every brand/piece has something special to offer. Tubes are still my first love but I don't like to fiddle and worry about bias, tube life, etc.. Solid state has come a LONG way and is very enjoyable today.Joe
Hi
The interesting thing to me and it is worth repeating is how stable Burmester line-up usually is. Models stay in production for many years and not your 3~5 years so common in High ENd before a new something comes up.. No! in some cases for decades. The 911 is 20 years old ..Let me repeat it TWENTY.. It came in production in 1991 ( the two first digits are usually the year and the third the month of market launch) .. Yes they upgrade them from time to time but would think the 911 Mark III is 6~ 7 years old or even more. Their top of the Line Preamp is THIRTY (30) years old!!! the 808 and owner of the original 808 can upgrade it too ... !! That's unheard in the High End and a testimony IMO to the honesty of the Burmester designers... For the record I became convinced of the potential of Digital when I heard the 870 preamp/DAC which wasn't well know in the USA (not even sold here IIRC)
Now about "Musicality". The term is nebulous at best. Musicality is a mental construct. Audiophiles have appropriated the term, yet have assigned NO clear meaning to it .. It seems to mean that someone liked the gear in question .. If that person doesn't like it , well it is dubbed "clinical" or "syrupy" but never musical ... S range.. since in the context of reproduction even my iPod is "musical" to me ..
So I take that as Marketing babble ... I have had the opportunity to meet Dieter Burmester in person and the gentleman knowledge of Audio reproduction and electronics is stupendous.. Modest and discrete but knowledgeable and frankly, obsessed by measurements... They measure everything at Burmester Audiosysteme GmbH... I don't like it however that they don't publish specs, i find it a little weird ...
I have not been convinced by their speakers either. I have neer heard them under the best conditions. Always at shows and to me these venues are suboptimal but the electronics? Up there with the best at any price ..
The interesting thing to me and it is worth repeating is how stable Burmester line-up usually is. Models stay in production for many years and not your 3~5 years so common in High ENd before a new something comes up.. No! in some cases for decades. The 911 is 20 years old ..Let me repeat it TWENTY.. It came in production in 1991 ( the two first digits are usually the year and the third the month of market launch) .. Yes they upgrade them from time to time but would think the 911 Mark III is 6~ 7 years old or even more. Their top of the Line Preamp is THIRTY (30) years old!!! the 808 and owner of the original 808 can upgrade it too ... !! That's unheard in the High End and a testimony IMO to the honesty of the Burmester designers... For the record I became convinced of the potential of Digital when I heard the 870 preamp/DAC which wasn't well know in the USA (not even sold here IIRC)
Now about "Musicality". The term is nebulous at best. Musicality is a mental construct. Audiophiles have appropriated the term, yet have assigned NO clear meaning to it .. It seems to mean that someone liked the gear in question .. If that person doesn't like it , well it is dubbed "clinical" or "syrupy" but never musical ... S range.. since in the context of reproduction even my iPod is "musical" to me ..
So I take that as Marketing babble ... I have had the opportunity to meet Dieter Burmester in person and the gentleman knowledge of Audio reproduction and electronics is stupendous.. Modest and discrete but knowledgeable and frankly, obsessed by measurements... They measure everything at Burmester Audiosysteme GmbH... I don't like it however that they don't publish specs, i find it a little weird ...
I have not been convinced by their speakers either. I have neer heard them under the best conditions. Always at shows and to me these venues are suboptimal but the electronics? Up there with the best at any price ..
Hi FrantzM,
I did not realize how old the series was, but one of the reasons I bought into the line was because it seems nothing Burmester becomes obsolete. From others who have heard entire Burmester systems, they tell me it tends to be on the fast and clean side (if that makes sense). People have told me they love their speakers with other electronics and their electronics with other speakers, to balance out the sound. I don't know, but my Nola Micro Grands never sounded so good. I am one happy camper. I wish I had the listening room and money to do it right, but I don't. What I do have seems to make the most of my room. Some treatments and I go to a whole new level. Thanks for the inside info and your take on Burmester. I appreciate it very much.
Joe
I did not realize how old the series was, but one of the reasons I bought into the line was because it seems nothing Burmester becomes obsolete. From others who have heard entire Burmester systems, they tell me it tends to be on the fast and clean side (if that makes sense). People have told me they love their speakers with other electronics and their electronics with other speakers, to balance out the sound. I don't know, but my Nola Micro Grands never sounded so good. I am one happy camper. I wish I had the listening room and money to do it right, but I don't. What I do have seems to make the most of my room. Some treatments and I go to a whole new level. Thanks for the inside info and your take on Burmester. I appreciate it very much.
Joe
That is what I really like about Burmester. Just like my 2 BMW's and my parents 1995 Mercedes E320. They still look and ride like they are a current model. I cannot stand companies that change their product line every 2 years. That happened to me when I had my Hegel amp and also Chapter Audio amp and preamp. I like the word musicality. To me it means toe tapping, finger snapping and heart felt music that does not lose anything by being reproduced by a system.
garylkoh
WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Hi Joe,
I see from your sig that you've got a USB DAC - look at and consider the new USB DAC upgrade to your 077. I'm also a huge Burmester fan even though I make competing products.
I see from your sig that you've got a USB DAC - look at and consider the new USB DAC upgrade to your 077. I'm also a huge Burmester fan even though I make competing products.
Hi Gary,
Thanks for the heads up. I looked into the DAC for the 077 and they wanted $5K installed not including shipping. I thought about it but others have told me they prefer to keep the digital out of such a fine analog preamp. A little noise pollution perhaps. I don't know. But I do like my LIO-8 and my MCD1100 (as a complete player and DAC) that I don't really see the need yet to put the DAC in the 077. I do have the external power supply for the 077 and am very impressed with it. It's probably too good for me. I really wanted and did not realize it at the time, an 069 player could have functioned as my preamp and missed a good deal on one before I bought the 077. Oh well, now I know better. I think that would have been a killer player and DAC.
Joe
garylkoh
WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
I haven't heard the 069, but while the 089 can also be used as a preamp (if you are not into vinyl), the addition of a 077 definitely improves it. The hallmark (to me) of a good preamp is that it is better than a piece of wire with gain. The 077 is definitely in that ballpark.
Ouch! I didn't realize that the DAC was $5k installed. It's good though. I haven't seen the announcements but the latest board does 24/192.
Ouch! I didn't realize that the DAC was $5k installed. It's good though. I haven't seen the announcements but the latest board does 24/192.
A couple of months ago when I was looking into it, I was told it accepts up to 24/96 and up-samples to 24/192. As far as I know, and it may have changed, the 077 DAC would not accept native 24/192. If it does now and did not a couple of months ago, I would have been a little upset now have to "upgrade" already. I'll have to find out.....
The 077 does it for me
Hi MarinJim,
If I am not mistaken, it was you and some posts of yours that got me thinking and got me hooked on Burmester. For that, I am eternally grateful. I never would have thought to seek them out if you had not planted the seed
Joe
LOL. I am glad I could "help".
I see a kindred spirit in you in our passion for the state of the art in music reproduction.
Ran across this the other day and thought Burmester owners might be interested:
http://www.cartridge-clinic.de/index.php?id=content&content=burmester877
http://www.cartridge-clinic.de/index.php?id=content&content=burmester877
This is an aftermarket upgrade and I wonder how Burmester feels about it. I wonder if Burmester owners trust their very expensive gear to anyone other than Burmester.
And in some cases, they refuse to work on it period. ARC is pretty sticky about sending a piece of their gear back to be repaired if it has had after market mods. You can't blame them. Burmester has a great reputation for building very good sounding gear. Do you really want to trust someone else to be "smarter" about improving its sound?
I would steer well clear; had a quick look and this is a big no-no:
In high performance gear doing something like using socketed chips is just asking for trouble ...
Frank
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