ARC announces price increase effective Mid-March '24

[Lee]

If ARC has new or significantly updated models to replace the current line up and the there is no or minimal price increase the new/updated line pricing will be easier to sell. If no new/updated components emerge then then the road ahead may prove rather rugged.

I think what you are missing here is that it takes years to develop a new product. Val just arrived and has focused on the Ref 320 amplifiers. In my discussions with him, he believes ARC needs more flagship products. And he talks a lot about significant upgrades across the range. So that appears to be in the works.

But it takes time. Meanwhile, products like the Ref 3SE phono and Ref 6SE line stage are winning awards and rave reviews left and right.

 

[Lee]

My thoughts are it is a hobby in decline there are very few people under sixty and way less under 50 years old. The products have all seemed to have skyrocketed over the past 25 years. A 100k 25 years ago bought one of the best speakers made now that takes 7 to 10 times as much. Every area of the system costs have gone up way more than inflation but there are less people buying so the base cost of business has to be covered by fewer sales. I am sure you all remember multiple page ads of hifi gear advertised by two different retailers in stereofile. Unfortunately the sales numbers of hifi by number of machines is down. Fits the new idea of living I want lots of stuff new stuff and I want it every day. Lots of new cheap stuff is better than one good item. Unfortunately that is what the world has changed to.

One thing you are missing is the emergence of the ultra luxury customer segment. As more millionaires and billionaires have been created, the ultra segment has emerged and been a boon to the better audio manufacturers. And that in many cases has led to performance insights and improvements that have trickled into the more affordable gear.

 

[Lee]

My thoughts are it is a hobby in decline there are very few people under sixty and way less under 50 years old. The products have all seemed to have skyrocketed over the past 25 years. A 100k 25 years ago bought one of the best speakers made now that takes 7 to 10 times as much. Every area of the system costs have gone up way more than inflation but there are less people buying so the base cost of business has to be covered by fewer sales. I am sure you all remember multiple page ads of hifi gear advertised by two different retailers in stereofile. Unfortunately the sales numbers of hifi by number of machines is down. Fits the new idea of living I want lots of stuff new stuff and I want it every day. Lots of new cheap stuff is better than one good item. Unfortunately that is what the world has changed to.

One more question...you state the number of devices in hifi sales is down. I was CEO at Nextscreen for a while and we never saw any valid industry wide sales numbers for high end audio. We searched high and low for this. So what source are you basing this statement on?

 

[Djcxxx]

I've owned ARC since 1979 (SP6A/D52B). Only with the 160S (three failed ghost meters), 6SE (failed volume control) and 3SE (delivered with non functional input 1 R channel) have I experienced such poor quality control and, in my opinion, component design flaws. Mr. Suggs cared about customer satisfaction but replacing rather repairing new units delivered with faults was not a long term strategy. The major price increases can be partly understood in terms of operating cost increases but the current product line needs revaluation and, in my opinion, redesign in terms of parts reliabilty and longevity. Reviewers do not bestow accolades upon broken or defective components. I do not believe that current product line can sustain ARC for long.

 

[Bobvin]

In my opinion, ARC tried to go “lifestyle” and abandoned their reference products, which, for example they are still selling Ref10 pre (2012) which was a slightly improved Ref40 anniversary (2010). Their 50 year anniversary came and went with no new product or marketing blitz to commemorate that milestone. Nice they have a new high power amp to debut but the preamps were a huge part of the brand’s cache. Some might say NOT introducing new models is good, but its been far too long since the Ref10 which I believe was originally @ $30k. Now is going to be $45k.

I greatly enjoyed my time with all the ARC kit I owned in the past and I wish them new success and longevity but I hope they narrow their focus, define their market, and introduce some real sonic improvements, not just a touch more this or that and a big sticker. It will be a challenge to re-acquire customers (who were loyal) but who moved on.

As to the meters.., they were fun to look at (160 models) but they were functionally irrelevant, at least the first 160Ms that I owned. The printed scale wasn’t calibrated to anything so nifty looking but really all for show.

 

[Another Johnson]

I don’t have any problems with posts that tell of the failure of recent models. Trent is a very good guy, but he did not get help quickly enough to stave off the “troubles.”

I am still using my ARC Ref Phono 3SE, and I still like it best of those things I’ve auditioned here. The Ref 6SE was beaten (to my taste) by my Burmester 088. But when I traded my Ref 6SE later, I was taken aback by the evaluation of the unit. The seasoned evaluator, when the unit was put up for sale after the trade, identified several minor finish defects that I had never noticed. He did not use these to reduce my trade, but he photographed them and pointed them out for his potential buyers. The two things I recall were that the knobs had imperfections, and the handles had rough areas that would not be expected in a $20k preamp. I loved the performance of my 6SE right up until the head to head comparison with the 088. But the 088 retails for 60% more than the 6SE in the US, so perhaps this should have been expected.

From what I can tell, things are back on track at ARC now. But there was a period during the year before the sale to Val Cora when things might not have always been perfect.

 

[AudioLibertarian]

This is typical of the large number of ill-informed kibitzers at WBF. They come out of the woodwork to bash some products. Ancient ownership history is trotted at as proof of current knowledge.

If ARC fails, it will be due to their continued commitment to tubes that are politically incorrect for Western markets. This is the reason I’ve moved away from them.

ARC pricing is just catching up to their main competitors. In this odd world, they still look quite reasonably priced to me.

If I were you I would be wary of calling anyone here an "ill informed" or a kibitzer. As far as the living in the "woodworks", one may say that is more up your alley, so to speak. If you quack alot that does not make you the smartest duck in the pond, if life has not taught you that yet , my fellow Yiddishe folklore scholar.

Also, it would not actually hurt to read and comprehend what I ve posted before accusing someone of bashing any products, which I most certainly never have done, I just expressed my sadness by seeing my once beloved brand on its way to extinction, in my opinion.

I'm not sure I understand what does political correctness have to with with huge prices increases of this particular brand, but I guess not everyone is as enlightened , or as deep a thinker as yourself....

 

[Another Johnson]

, but I guess not everyone is as enlightened , or as deep a thinker as yourself....

Well, at least you’re honest

 

[AudioLibertarian]

yeah, this is not true. There are lot of expensive parts from tubes to capacitors to labor in putting together an Audio Research product.

I’m far from rich but I am tired of people complaining about pricing without any first hand knowledge of how much it costs to produce the product or run the business.

You d be surprised what kind of "knowledge" , first kind, or otherwise some people may have. Having designed and run large industrial production assemblies in various part of the globe, I do have some ideas how products in different industries are put together, with the R and D , etc. Not to mention that having built few tube amp kits of my own helps a bit.

 

[Another Johnson]

Poe’s Law was mentioned recently in another thread. Poe’s Law was initially based on theological discussions. Although it has been extended to general internet discussions, there is a theological aspect to discussions about audio gear.

 

[WillBthr]

Over the past two to three years, my experience with purchasing seven ARC REF products and upgrading two REF products to "SE" for two separate systems has been flawless, except for a single incident where a Russian-made 6H30 vacuum tube in a REF3SE Phono developed intermittent noise. Greg C. at ARC quickly sent out a replacement tube, resulting in perfect performance and exceptional sonic quality.

In contrast to industries like automotive or cell phone manufacturing, I wouldn't anticipate a new model unless there's a genuine technological advancement. The components—tubes, resistors, capacitors, transformers—haven't seen significant changes in recent years.

It all comes down to the circuit design and its execution.

As previously mentioned, ARC's current REF series has been garnering awards and stellar reviews lately.

I choose ARC products for the sound quality it brings to my systems. I disagree with, don't understand, and am indifferent to the peculiar notion that "tubes are politically incorrect for Western markets."

 

[tima]

I'm rich!

LOL.

exactly. I noted this elsewhere -- these price increases will trickle down (up?) to the used market. Owners and sellers are happy. Increase you sale prices by 12% and claim it's a bargain. Not sure what impact that has on the brand.

 

[tima]

Mr. Acora may believe that ARCs future, if any, must be upmarket. Downmarket is an inevitable dead end where the ARC historic brand value will quickly dissipate.

They proved that pre-Acora with their lifestyle products.

 

[2fastdriving]

As to the meters.., they were fun to look at (160 models) but they were functionally irrelevant, at least the first 160Ms that I owned. The printed scale wasn’t calibrated to anything so nifty looking but really all for show.

This was fixed some time ago. They had a firmware update which made the meters MUCH more responsive and fun to watch.

 

[KeithR]

One thing you are missing is the emergence of the ultra luxury customer segment. As more millionaires and billionaires have been created, the ultra segment has emerged and been a boon to the better audio manufacturers. And that in many cases has led to performance insights and improvements that have trickled into the more affordable gear.

Meh. Just creates a smaller niche industry. I really haven’t seen trickle down tech either. Manufacturers would rather sell 10 $50,000 units then 100 $5,000 ones. So they just don’t build the $5k version.

 

[Another Johnson]

Meh. Just creates a smaller niche industry. I really haven’t seen trickle down tech either. Manufacturers would rather sell 10 $50,000 units then 1000 $5,000 ones. So they just don’t build the $5k version.

Stupid manufacturer. Do the math.
10 x 50k is $500k. 1000 x 5k is $5M.

 

[godofwealth]

I have owned a range of ARC products for more than 30 years, since the original Reference 1 preamplifier, the Reference 1 phono preamplifier and the VT 100 Mk2 amplifier. I now enjoy the ARC 6SE preamp, the Reference 210 amplifier, the Reference 3SE phono stage and the Reference CD8.

In all these years, I’ve not had one ARC component fail on me. Perhaps I’ve been lucky. But just comparing the build quality of the 6SE preamp to an equally pricey Conrad Johnson GAT S2 that I recently got for use with a single ended SET amp, I’m amazed ARC can build stuff like this at the prices they charge. Their construction quality is very high quality. My Ref Phono lasted 25+ years. This stuff can be handed fine to your grandkids. It’s not cheaply made.

While I dearly love my Lampizator Pacific DAC, compared to ARC, it looks like a product made in someone’s garage! There’s a lot that goes into making an ARC product. I’m not disagreeing with the premise that this storied brand is in serious financial trouble or that they need a huge shot in the arm in terms of new products (how about a Reference ARC media server?), but comparing their ARC Reference CD players to the junk CD players most audiophile companies put out, it’s laughable how badly high end audio products are designed. In the last 30+ years, I’ve owned countless digital products from many famous audiophile brands that were just atrociously made. Compared to those horror shows, the ARC Reference CD8 just goes on and on. It reads any CD, ANY CD, in half a second! Sounds better in many ways than my Lampi Pacific playing compressed Roon streaming.

I would like to see them succeed, but they do need to introduce new products that merit the high standard we have come to expect from them. They are notoriously conservative. They championed CD playback and ignored SACD and DVD Audio as too fringe and having inherent problems. That’s completely justified. SACDs have all but disappeared. But streaming is here to stay. ARC needs to introduce a Reference streamer. Among other things. The price increases are not out of the ordinary. It’s the cost of building everything in house. And listening to each and every component before it leaves the factory. When was the last time you bought a pair of trousers that the person who tailored them signed off on and personally supervised their packaging?

 

[Lee]

Over the past two to three years, my experience with purchasing seven ARC REF products and upgrading two REF products to "SE" for two separate systems has been flawless, except for a single incident where a Russian-made 6H30 vacuum tube in a REF3SE Phono developed intermittent noise. Greg C. at ARC quickly sent out a replacement tube, resulting in perfect performance and exceptional sonic quality.

In contrast to industries like automotive or cell phone manufacturing, I wouldn't anticipate a new model unless there's a genuine technological advancement. The components—tubes, resistors, capacitors, transformers—haven't seen significant changes in recent years.

It all comes down to the circuit design and its execution.

As previously mentioned, ARC's current REF series has been garnering awards and stellar reviews lately.

I choose ARC products for the sound quality it brings to my systems. I disagree with, don't understand, and am indifferent to the peculiar notion that "tubes are politically incorrect for Western markets."

Likewise my Ref products (160 Stereo, 6SE line stage and 3SE phono) have been flawless.

 

[Lee]

Meh. Just creates a smaller niche industry. I really haven’t seen trickle down tech either. Manufacturers would rather sell 10 $50,000 units then 100 $5,000 ones. So they just don’t build the $5k version.

Our research showed the ultra segment expanded the industry by attracting new customers.

 

[retired farmer]

One more question...you state the number of devices in hifi sales is down. I was CEO at Nextscreen for a while and we never saw any valid industry wide sales numbers for high end audio. We searched high and low for this. So what source are you basing this statement on?

What happened to sound by singer? Lyric hi-fi? Two huge dealers you can Google that and read it for yourself. Not hard to observe the trend. Look at the description about new items that have sparkle lol thirty years ago that was called bright why has that become a trend? Think about that the community is getting older and there hearing is failing? It may be different in China and Russia the two biggest hi-fi markets but in North America it is in decline you just have to look around. The dollar figures might still be there because of the very quickly rising prices but that doesn't transfer into more boxes sold. By the way I was and still am the owner of my company agriculture can bury hifi in dollars sales just as many industries can. I have yet so see a class of investments discussed on any financial advisors outlook pages that names hifi something to invest in.