After many months of waiting, my NAD M33 has been delivered. I'll get back to you very soon with initial impressions and comparisons with M32. Peter
At Last! My new baby has been delivered?
- Thread starter Hear Here
- Start date
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Gosh as a retired ObGyn I wa going to ask if the birth went well. Enjoy your new baby
Initial Impressions of the NAD M33 - Day 1
OK, the M33 has arrived and my initial project is to compare its sound quality with my existing M32.
The M33 uses the latest Purifi Class D technology, whereas the M32 uses Direct Digital – unique to NAD I believe.
I’ve always considered the M32 to be very good and exceptional value after comparing its amplifier section with numerous more costly power amps – GamuT, Micromega, Sugden, Accuphase, Benchmark Diavelet, Quad and others. I concluded that the M32 was the best overall and have sold or returned the others.
I have a Beresford TC-7220 MKIII switcher that allows me (using lots of rather long speaker cables) to A-B compare one amp with another by simply pushing a switch at the listening position. It also allows connection of 2 pairs of speakers, but that’s for another day. Details - http://www.homehifi.co.uk/S/tc-7220mk3.htm
I connected the M32 and M33 to my new Avantgarde XD speakers via the switcher and set the volumes to match. The M33 at -43dB and M32 at -36 dB. This shows that the newer amp is appreciably more powerful than the older one. Not important to me with 107dB speakers but perhaps relevent to those with less sensitive ones.
So far, I’ve used only BluOS to play music streamed from Qubuz or from my own ripped CD library stored in FLAC format and internet radio. No analogue, no room correction, no tone adjustments, no subwoofer settings – just straight through the DAC and amp to the speakers.
I don’t know whether amps need breaking in and they improve after time, but straight away there were subtle differences. The M33 is a little clearer with slightly more detailed sound and some instruments seemed a little closer than with the M32. A little more sparkle perhaps. Bass was at least as good, maybe slightly more precise than the M32, but these were all pretty small improvements, as I was anticipating.
The LED touch screen of the M33 is much bigger than the earlier model, but it takes a bit of getting used to. Various different displays can be chosen as default for each source. This can show little detail or plenty, analogue and digital VU meters, etc. A different default screen can be set for each source, so streamed and library music could be artwork + artist + album + track, whereas internet radio could be simply station + show + music detail if the station can be bothered to provide it!
All clever stuff, but I miss something from the M32’s standard display. You can’t see your progress through the track and there are no Next or Previous icons on any of the screen options, although a touch on the screen or an adjustment of the remote’s volume control will bring these up immediately for a few seconds.
That’s all for now – I’ll play around for a few more days before attempting to look at the Dirac Live and other features included with the M33. The microphone supplied looks a bit Micky Mouse, but it may do a reasonable job. I’m anticipating that a better (calibrated) mic may be needed to get the best out of Dirac. Time will tell.
Peter
OK, the M33 has arrived and my initial project is to compare its sound quality with my existing M32.
The M33 uses the latest Purifi Class D technology, whereas the M32 uses Direct Digital – unique to NAD I believe.
I’ve always considered the M32 to be very good and exceptional value after comparing its amplifier section with numerous more costly power amps – GamuT, Micromega, Sugden, Accuphase, Benchmark Diavelet, Quad and others. I concluded that the M32 was the best overall and have sold or returned the others.
I have a Beresford TC-7220 MKIII switcher that allows me (using lots of rather long speaker cables) to A-B compare one amp with another by simply pushing a switch at the listening position. It also allows connection of 2 pairs of speakers, but that’s for another day. Details - http://www.homehifi.co.uk/S/tc-7220mk3.htm
I connected the M32 and M33 to my new Avantgarde XD speakers via the switcher and set the volumes to match. The M33 at -43dB and M32 at -36 dB. This shows that the newer amp is appreciably more powerful than the older one. Not important to me with 107dB speakers but perhaps relevent to those with less sensitive ones.
So far, I’ve used only BluOS to play music streamed from Qubuz or from my own ripped CD library stored in FLAC format and internet radio. No analogue, no room correction, no tone adjustments, no subwoofer settings – just straight through the DAC and amp to the speakers.
I don’t know whether amps need breaking in and they improve after time, but straight away there were subtle differences. The M33 is a little clearer with slightly more detailed sound and some instruments seemed a little closer than with the M32. A little more sparkle perhaps. Bass was at least as good, maybe slightly more precise than the M32, but these were all pretty small improvements, as I was anticipating.
The LED touch screen of the M33 is much bigger than the earlier model, but it takes a bit of getting used to. Various different displays can be chosen as default for each source. This can show little detail or plenty, analogue and digital VU meters, etc. A different default screen can be set for each source, so streamed and library music could be artwork + artist + album + track, whereas internet radio could be simply station + show + music detail if the station can be bothered to provide it!
All clever stuff, but I miss something from the M32’s standard display. You can’t see your progress through the track and there are no Next or Previous icons on any of the screen options, although a touch on the screen or an adjustment of the remote’s volume control will bring these up immediately for a few seconds.
That’s all for now – I’ll play around for a few more days before attempting to look at the Dirac Live and other features included with the M33. The microphone supplied looks a bit Micky Mouse, but it may do a reasonable job. I’m anticipating that a better (calibrated) mic may be needed to get the best out of Dirac. Time will tell.
Peter
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This unit has been well received so far from the reviews I have watched on youtube, it will be interesting to hear from an owner of the product though. As joeinid indicated, this is really nice all in one package.
Still trying to get to grips with Dirac, but a bit busy with other things at present. Meanwhile, sounding good. Peter
I'd really like one of these... have the M17 v2 now and it's nice, but looking for something with a better DAC, and this one if implemented right, should be among one of the better ones. However, I think I'll wait until they get the bass control modules ready.
It allows bass management of multiple subwoofers (bass optimization within Dirac Live)... and the sub pre-outs will be XLR.
I'm curious if Dirac sets the timing between mains and sub with the current RCA sub pre-outs? I assume the current sub pre-outs are summed.
Each speaker is separately measured by Dirac so each sub (if connected to separate outputs) are measured for timing and for frequency.
The M33 has 2 RCA outputs specifically for Subs where the cut-off frequency can be set within the M33's Settings. There are 2 more pre-outs that have no cut-off but could be used for additional subs if you have 3 or 4 of the blighters! As with most integrated, pre-outs are RCA and not XLR.
I'm having difficulties using Dirac because instructions are pitifully poor and as it requires a 64 bit PC . 2 of mine are 32 and the 64 one seems not to meet Dirac's requirements for some ".dll" reason. I'm not sure how I'll get around this. I have an iPad that may do the job, but I've not tried this yet.
Thanks for the info on the pre-outs.
I've not heard of very many users that have had issues running Dirac. All of my laptops I use are 64-bit... did not even realize 32-bit was still in play.
Have you reached out to Dirac Live support about the .dll file?
I've not heard of very many users that have had issues running Dirac. All of my laptops I use are 64-bit... did not even realize 32-bit was still in play.
Have you reached out to Dirac Live support about the .dll file?
Over the last two weeks I’ve been using my new M33 so I think it’s time to update from my earlier post.
As you know if you read this and other audio forums, I’ve been a great fan of the NAD Master Series, in particular the M12 preamp and M32 integrated. Both have built-in DACs, phono stages and can take the BluOS module to add a streaming facility, all for a very reasonable cost.
The new M33 with Purifi amplifier module was announced ages ago but has only just become available and I’d been anxiously looking forward to getting one to replace my M32. I gave a quick comment on its sound earlier, but I’ve held off commenting on other features after discovering several aspects I’m less than happy with.
Contacting NAD’s Customer Service guys since buying the M33 has been frustratingly unsatisfactory, because they are mainly working from home without access to an M33. Frustrating because there appears to be a number of very basic software problems that seriously reduce the usability and “friendliness” of the M33 compared with its processors.
Today, after I suggested that my individual unit may be faulty, I received a phone call from a more senior guy in NAD (let’s call him Bob) who was most helpful in understanding the points I’d been trying to highlight and has promised that the design team would carefully look into them. This has come as a great relief and grounds for optimism as this clever box of tricks could and should be a fantastic solution for those of us that want great sound without numerous boxes and a snake-pit of over-priced and never sound-enhancing cables!
I’ll mention a few features of the M33 that I consider badly thought out and should in my view be changed, hopefully by a significant upgrade in the control software
Selecting the Source can’t be achieved using the remote’s CH/Source up and down toggle. That’s surely what it’s for!
The comprehensive Settings menu can’t be explored using the remote. The app offers access to a few settings but many can only be reached via the touch screen. By contrast the same remote can be used to explore (and make changes to) the entire menu of Settings on the other M series using the set of 5 central buttons – up, down, left, right and Enter. The M33 has wrongly commandeered these 5 buttons for:
Changing Source (should be handled by the CH/Source buttons - adjacent to Volume buttons)
Selecting Next and Previous track (should be handled by the buttons marked for these purposes - towards the bottom of the remote)
Pause / Play (should be handled by the buttons marked for these purposes - towards the bottom of the remote).
I mentioned the inadequate (for non-techies) instructions for running Dirac Live. Even after reading Dirac and NAD papers on the subject and watching Youtube videos, there were features that are unexplained, eg how to choose the Volume Settings prior to measurement.
Those who use subwoofers supporting small main speakers (LS3/5As, etc) may be disappointed that the M33 has lost one useful feature that the M12 and M32 offer. With those units, you could choose to protect your main speakers from the lowest frequencies allowing greater volume without fear of speaker damage, but not with the M33. You can still select your crossover frequency for the sub but not for the main speakers.
I’m encouraged enough following my long conversation with Bob that I won’t be returning the M33 to the dealer and reinstating my still-excellent M32. These corrections and improvements won’t be done overnight, but I’m living in hope that this product’s unexpected disappointment factor will soon be replaced by the anticipated best-on-the market feeling.
More to come regarding Dirac and other sound-related features, though I won’t be commenting on any of its analogue abilities as my system is all digital.
Peter
As you know if you read this and other audio forums, I’ve been a great fan of the NAD Master Series, in particular the M12 preamp and M32 integrated. Both have built-in DACs, phono stages and can take the BluOS module to add a streaming facility, all for a very reasonable cost.
The new M33 with Purifi amplifier module was announced ages ago but has only just become available and I’d been anxiously looking forward to getting one to replace my M32. I gave a quick comment on its sound earlier, but I’ve held off commenting on other features after discovering several aspects I’m less than happy with.
Contacting NAD’s Customer Service guys since buying the M33 has been frustratingly unsatisfactory, because they are mainly working from home without access to an M33. Frustrating because there appears to be a number of very basic software problems that seriously reduce the usability and “friendliness” of the M33 compared with its processors.
Today, after I suggested that my individual unit may be faulty, I received a phone call from a more senior guy in NAD (let’s call him Bob) who was most helpful in understanding the points I’d been trying to highlight and has promised that the design team would carefully look into them. This has come as a great relief and grounds for optimism as this clever box of tricks could and should be a fantastic solution for those of us that want great sound without numerous boxes and a snake-pit of over-priced and never sound-enhancing cables!
I’ll mention a few features of the M33 that I consider badly thought out and should in my view be changed, hopefully by a significant upgrade in the control software
Selecting the Source can’t be achieved using the remote’s CH/Source up and down toggle. That’s surely what it’s for!
The comprehensive Settings menu can’t be explored using the remote. The app offers access to a few settings but many can only be reached via the touch screen. By contrast the same remote can be used to explore (and make changes to) the entire menu of Settings on the other M series using the set of 5 central buttons – up, down, left, right and Enter. The M33 has wrongly commandeered these 5 buttons for:
Changing Source (should be handled by the CH/Source buttons - adjacent to Volume buttons)
Selecting Next and Previous track (should be handled by the buttons marked for these purposes - towards the bottom of the remote)
Pause / Play (should be handled by the buttons marked for these purposes - towards the bottom of the remote).
I mentioned the inadequate (for non-techies) instructions for running Dirac Live. Even after reading Dirac and NAD papers on the subject and watching Youtube videos, there were features that are unexplained, eg how to choose the Volume Settings prior to measurement.
Those who use subwoofers supporting small main speakers (LS3/5As, etc) may be disappointed that the M33 has lost one useful feature that the M12 and M32 offer. With those units, you could choose to protect your main speakers from the lowest frequencies allowing greater volume without fear of speaker damage, but not with the M33. You can still select your crossover frequency for the sub but not for the main speakers.
I’m encouraged enough following my long conversation with Bob that I won’t be returning the M33 to the dealer and reinstating my still-excellent M32. These corrections and improvements won’t be done overnight, but I’m living in hope that this product’s unexpected disappointment factor will soon be replaced by the anticipated best-on-the market feeling.
More to come regarding Dirac and other sound-related features, though I won’t be commenting on any of its analogue abilities as my system is all digital.
Peter
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Thanks for pointing out these real world user issues, like you I'm hoping NAD can produce software upgrades to solve them. Looking forward to your comments on sound quality and Dirac experience.
I received my NAD M33 yesterday and I think you have pretty much covered my frustrations plus a few more!
It is a very nice sounding amplifier and does a lot, sonically, right. One question I do have is whether you have noticed any operational noises from the unit itself. Mine, admittedly with my ear around 6/7 inches away so not a deal braking issue, emits a continuous noise which is hard to describe. Does yours do the same?
Thanks,
Rob
I received my M33 about 2 weeks ago. Sound is fine, but as noted above there are several irritants with my unit. #1 is the fact that the unit is currently not working! The unit will turn on, but will not initiate the m33 start screen and just sits there with a dark screen. Troughout the past couple of weeks my unit would turn on but not boot up about every 4th or 5th time, to the point that the main power switch on the back would have to be cycled, then a boot up would be successful. However tonight, while listening through the line in, the screen suddenly went dark and I lost sound, and now no matter of cycling/unplugging will get it to boot up. Severe bummer!
Previous to all that, I had also noticed a distinct sound during startup that can only be described as a high pitched digital like switching, comparable to the sound a mechanical hard drive makes, but higher in pitch. It was loud enough to be heard from 10 feet away, but after initializing it would go away. However, when the unit wouldn't initialize, that sound would persist until I would switch off the rear main power. Now that sound is all I can hear when I turn it on. I have a feeling the whatever houses the operating system is making this noise and is faulty.
I was planning to call NAD tech support tomorrow to report the odd behaviors anyway, but a non working unit has amplified (pun intended) my urgency to do so. However, after seeing the above posts, I'm not looking forward to it. Hopefully they will be able to tell me an easy fix or send a replacement.
As far as the other issues I would agree with Hear Here that the remote is about as useful as snow tires in the Sahara. It will turn on the unit and change the volume, but every other button on it is useless. It seems more designed for a generic a/v amp than the M33 specifically. BluOS itself is a bit of a mess, though this may be less of an issue the more I use it. One specific annoyance is the fact that unless you are in the BluOS app or Tidal Connect, you can't control the volume with your phone volume controls. In a way, this makes sense that the amp doesn't steal the volume control from the phone while on, but if you are looking at emails or browsing the web and want to change the volume you have to return to one of those apps to be able to do so. It would have been nice to have a smaller, less club like remote for this, but #firstworldproblems.
As far as subwoofers, I use 2 in stereo and set the crossover at 60 hz. I would assume that my bookshelf speakers aren't receiving 60hz and lower signals, but Hear Here has me questioning that with his post. In my experience so far, controlling the subs on and off through the bluos app has been good, and the sound blend between the speaker and sub is excellent.
I upgraded Dirac and ran through the calibration through my iphone. It's fairly straightforward, but my results were not to my liking. I want to run it again, but I need to figure out a better way to position the mic. In all, it measures around 9 different locations for single seat listening, and positioning the mic without a stand is a bit frustrating. I'm attributing that to my less than stellar result, as it made the soundfield more center focused with my Klipsch RP-600m's, but squashed and flattened their more lively tendencies, to the point that I turned it off almost immediately. Again, I haven't had time to play with the Dirac live results yet, but that's not even an option now anyway.
I will keep y'all up to date with my journey.
Previous to all that, I had also noticed a distinct sound during startup that can only be described as a high pitched digital like switching, comparable to the sound a mechanical hard drive makes, but higher in pitch. It was loud enough to be heard from 10 feet away, but after initializing it would go away. However, when the unit wouldn't initialize, that sound would persist until I would switch off the rear main power. Now that sound is all I can hear when I turn it on. I have a feeling the whatever houses the operating system is making this noise and is faulty.
I was planning to call NAD tech support tomorrow to report the odd behaviors anyway, but a non working unit has amplified (pun intended) my urgency to do so. However, after seeing the above posts, I'm not looking forward to it. Hopefully they will be able to tell me an easy fix or send a replacement.
As far as the other issues I would agree with Hear Here that the remote is about as useful as snow tires in the Sahara. It will turn on the unit and change the volume, but every other button on it is useless. It seems more designed for a generic a/v amp than the M33 specifically. BluOS itself is a bit of a mess, though this may be less of an issue the more I use it. One specific annoyance is the fact that unless you are in the BluOS app or Tidal Connect, you can't control the volume with your phone volume controls. In a way, this makes sense that the amp doesn't steal the volume control from the phone while on, but if you are looking at emails or browsing the web and want to change the volume you have to return to one of those apps to be able to do so. It would have been nice to have a smaller, less club like remote for this, but #firstworldproblems.
As far as subwoofers, I use 2 in stereo and set the crossover at 60 hz. I would assume that my bookshelf speakers aren't receiving 60hz and lower signals, but Hear Here has me questioning that with his post. In my experience so far, controlling the subs on and off through the bluos app has been good, and the sound blend between the speaker and sub is excellent.
I upgraded Dirac and ran through the calibration through my iphone. It's fairly straightforward, but my results were not to my liking. I want to run it again, but I need to figure out a better way to position the mic. In all, it measures around 9 different locations for single seat listening, and positioning the mic without a stand is a bit frustrating. I'm attributing that to my less than stellar result, as it made the soundfield more center focused with my Klipsch RP-600m's, but squashed and flattened their more lively tendencies, to the point that I turned it off almost immediately. Again, I haven't had time to play with the Dirac live results yet, but that's not even an option now anyway.
I will keep y'all up to date with my journey.
I am surprised about this. The unit I had allowed direct source selection as well as via the up/down buttons. OTOH, I much preferred to use my iPad for all operations as it was more capable and less ambiguous in action.
I ran DL on a PC and it was clear that the main speakers were being rolled off but I cannot be certain that would be true without DL.
This is all quite disturbing.
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