Audio Research REF6 vs. REF10 Preamp

[bonzo75]

Are there any AR pre owners with SET amps, especially with horn speakers?

 

[Tango]

Are there any AR pre owners with SET amps, especially with horn speakers?

Airbearing is using 40 Anniversary with his Wavac and custom horns.

 

[Argonaut]

Now that the 70's production DR's have had a few hours to bed in I am hugely impressed with the all round performance gains the NOS valves have brought to the output stage of this REF10, especially when considering its mere 200 hours on the clock.

 

[Pb Blimp]

Now that the 70's production DR's have had a few hours to bed in I am hugely impressed with the all round performance gains the NOS valves have brought to the output stage of this REF10, especially when considering its mere 200 hours on the clock.

That's great. Can you provide a little more detail as to the improvements? Thanks!

 

[Argonaut]

Am out for the evening now Paul, I shall pen some thoughts after another listen on the morrow.

 

[jonaiken]

I would without reservation highly recommend replacing the factory Sovtek in the output stage of in my current instance REF250 SE's...quite a revelation.

Just replaced the stock Sovtek 6H30 with the Reflector 6H30p-DR’s in my 250SE’s, all I can say is WOW. More transparent, 3-dimensional and detailed. Shame the Reflectors are difficult to find and cost an arm and a leg if you find a genuine one. I did try the GE 6550A to replace the stock Sovtek but I did not like the sound. I have a couple of Winged C SED 6550C I will be installing tomorrow and hope they will be equally as rewarding as the DR’s. More to follow...

 

[jonaiken]

Just replaced the stock Sovtek 6H30 with the Reflector 6H30p-DR’s in my 250SE’s, all I can say is WOW. More transparent, 3-dimensional and detailed. Shame the Reflectors are difficult to find and cost an arm and a leg if you find a genuine one. I did try the GE 6550A to replace the stock Sovtek but I did not like the sound. I have a couple of Winged C SED 6550C I will be installing tomorrow and hope they will be equally as rewarding as the DR’s. More to follow...

The SED Winged C 6550C’s have taken my amps to another level....greater transparency, more detail, tighter and more profound bass...definitely more palatable. Next to put the Reflector 6H30P-DR’s and Winged C-6550C in my Reference 10 Preamp and Reference 3 Phono Preamp.

 

[jonaiken]

Tubes (Reflector 6H30P-DR’s and Winged C SED 6550C’s) lined up and ready to be installed in my Ref 10 preamp and Ref 3 Phono Preamp.....both types of tubes hard to find and verify quality, but got a very good set.....Update on impact to system forthcoming

 

[skytop]

LOL, probably not. The REF11 is scheduled for the end of 2017.

It is now April of 2019 and no replacement of the aging Reference 10 has appeared. I too am waiting.

 

[Alpinist]

It is now April of 2019 and no replacement of the aging Reference 10 has appeared. I too am waiting.

This delay shows just how hard it is to improve on Ref 10’s existing design. ARC has been more interested in trickling down the Ref 10’s technology to their lower preamp models.

Ken

 

[tima]

If we speculate that the REF 10 replacement may stand in the same relation to the REF 6 as the REF 10 did to the REF 5SE. What we may see is:

A line stage that is basically two REF 6s with separate power supplies in one box where those power supplies give each channel the equivalent of the entire REF 6 power supply. Essentially the REF 10 is dual REF 5SEs, just as the REF 10 Phono is two REF 2SEs - one for each channel. I'd be surprised if ARC took a different route with the REF 10 replacements.

In 2017 I had the opportunity to have the REF 2SE, REF 3, and REF 10 Phono available to my system simultaneously, with the Line Stage being the REF 10. I never wrote that REF 3 phono stage review , but from past experience I can tell you the REF 3 and REF 6 are quite similar to one another in their basic sonic characteristics, just as the REF 2SE and REF 5SE are to each other.

Back to speculation on the REF 10 replacement. If the preceding holds true, then its not hard to extrapolate the sound of the REF 10 replacement being a highly refined version of the REF 6 sound - at the same level of the difference between the 5SE and 10 (same gain stage circuit.) When I did the above comparison it was easy to hear how the REF 10 Phono derived from the 2SE, and as Ken noted in his excellent account of the 10 and the 6, the REF 6 had a "very different sonic signature."

However, what I wasn't expecting was the REF6 preamp's very different sonic signature. The soundstage was much more forward than the REF10, the attacks were more abrupt and the mid-bass was punchier, creating a very vibrant and more aggressive sound. In some ways this provided more immediacy to the music but at the expense of some edginess compared to the REF10's silky smooth midrange and treble. The best single word I can use to describe the REF6's sound is "ballsy", while the best single word to describe the REF10's sound is "refined".

The presentation of the REF10 and REF6 were different enough that I would say it comes down to a matter of personal taste as to which one a listener would prefer. While I really liked and could be happy with the overall sound of the REF6, being a lover of jazz vocals, jazz piano, jazz guitar and small jazz combos, the REF10's sound really did it for me.

So the message here is .... be careful what you wait for. While I do not believe that equipment is music genre specific nor would I say it in a formal review, my gut tells me the REF 10 replacement could be 'more adept' with pop and rock. The REF 3 was bit more dynamic and a bit more detailed than the REF 2SE, but along with being more foward the 3's tonality and harmonics were, imo, not quite as genteel or refined. Compared to the 3, the REF 10 Phono was more laid back - that's not a negative but a difference in approach. Imo, based on direct comparison, ARC changed the sound of the lower member of their upper tier line with the REF 3 and 6. It's a personal choice of course.


Top row: REF 2SE, GPA Monaco 2.0 TT
Row 2: REF 10, REF 3
Row 3: REF 10 PS, REF 10 Phono PS, REF 10 Phono.