Audionet Scientist Series: Humboldt Integrated vs Stern and Heisenberg Separates : Having Your Cake and Eating it Too?

[Lungholt]

If your speakers are not too difficult load it would definitely be an upgrade.

thank you very much for your opinion. I don’t think that my speaker is a problem - Stenheim alumine tre, 93 sensibilty, 8 ohm

br anders

 

[Thieliste]

thank you very much for your opinion. I don’t think that my speaker is a problem - Stenheim alumine tre, 93 sensibilty, 8 ohm

br anders

Ok well you really need to audition the Humbold, you're going to be amazed trust me.

 

[ICUToo]

directly compared the Max and Pre G2 versus the Humboldt (same system, same room).

I did this, courtesy of the excellent Sonic Purity dealership in Melbourne.
It was kind of them to set it up- I was interested in the Max, and only heard the Humboldt out of curiosity.
It was much better- fluent, transparent, colourful, not brash in any way. Played loud and clear, with excellent inner light and detail, I remember hearing Eric Bibb sound particularly real and clear.
I liked it so much I bought it

 

[R S]

I did this, courtesy of the excellent Sonic Purity dealership in Melbourne.
It was kind of them to set it up- I was interested in the Max, and only heard the Humboldt out of curiosity.
It was much better- fluent, transparent, colourful, not brash in any way. Played loud and clear, with excellent inner light and detail, I remember hearing Eric Bibb sound particularly real and clear.
I liked it so much I bought it

Very interesting. Can I ask what your previous amplification was and what source / speakers you are using with the Humboldt?

 

[heihei]

thank you very much for your opinion. I don’t think that my speaker is a problem - Stenheim alumine tre, 93 sensibilty, 8 ohm

br anders

Stenheim are a pretty easy load from my understanding. I think the paring would sound fabulous - in fact if I ever changed my Wilson Benesch Resolutions, Stenheim would be on the list.

 

[sbo6]

I did this, courtesy of the excellent Sonic Purity dealership in Melbourne.
It was kind of them to set it up- I was interested in the Max, and only heard the Humboldt out of curiosity.
It was much better- fluent, transparent, colourful, not brash in any way. Played loud and clear, with excellent inner light and detail, I remember hearing Eric Bibb sound particularly real and clear.
I liked it so much I bought it

Thanks for the information. Can I ask what system they were part of?

 

[musicfirst1]

Great feedback on the Scientist series, however unless I missed it I don't see an example where anyone directly compared the Max and Pre G2 versus the Humboldt (same system, same room). It would be valuable to get feedback on the integrated versus the older separates in the exact same room, same speakers, same source, same everything and ideally A - B - A.

I believe I posted elsewhere that I auditioned the Stern/MAX combo adjacent to the Humboldt with the same source (Mola Mola Tambaquis) and similar speakers (the Stern/Maxs drove the YG Sonja 2is and the Humboldt drove the less ambitious YG Haileys) at Bill Parishes showroom in NJ. The Humboldt driven system was better in every respect IMHO. I now feature the Humboldt in our reference system and also have MAX's on the floor from previously.

 

[ICUToo]

Thanks for the information. Can I ask what system they were part of?

Mola Mola tambacqui DAC
Gauder Akustik speakers

 

[sbo6]

Thanks to you both for your feedback. As I said earlier, I recently purchased the Pre G2 and inquired about the Pre G2/Max amps combo versus the Humboldt and the dealer's response was - it depends on the setup and speaker cables, for harder to drive speakers the Max and Pre G2 delivers. With the right system and SCs the Humboldt can win. He also mentioned that the Humboldt is the more affordable choice while both costing ~$55K the Humboldt requires less cables (PC + IC).

My concern was exactly what he stated - there's a significant power difference with the Humboldt @320W into 8 ohms and 460W into 4 ohms (no 2 ohm rating provided) while the Max delivers 400W into 8 ohms, 700W into 4 ohms and over a KW (1100) into 2 ohms.

As such, I'd be surprised driving the YGs that drop to 3 ohms that there wasn't, especially at higher SPLs a difference in dynamics and possibly effortlessness. Or the Gauders which are 4 ohms (possible/likely dipping lower?). So, can I ask and to your statement, "The Humboldt driven system was better in every respect IMHO" - including dynamics when the Humboldt has 65% output power of the Max amps?

BTW, I'm not defending the Max/Pre G2 but I question whether it's truly a win - win when you downgrade power output by ~1/3rd further exacerbated by implementation in moderate - larger rooms and less efficient / lower impedance speakers.


Thanks again for your feedback.

 

[Thieliste]

Pretty soon i'll be demoing the Humboldt in my system and will let you guys know if it can drive my very difficult Thiel that spend most of the time between 2.4 and 3 ohms.
I'm not confident at all because my Diablo 300 doesn't drive them to 100%, lack of bass.
Strangely the Audionet dealer is very confident, let's see if he is right.

 

[musicfirst1]

I stand by my original comments 100%. Owning both and driving a relatively efficient speaker like your Giya g2/s or my Bayz Audio Courantes, the Humboldt is more dynamic, more resolving, more present and more musical than the MAXs within their stated power ratings.

In fact, the Humboldt sounds more like the Heisenbergs than the MAXs in every important respect save ultimate authority.

One must realize that the Giyas can be driven to well in excess of 100 db peaks with either amps.

Certainly, I can (and have!) shut the Humboldt down 2db sooner than the MAXs on Reference Recording's Bercuse and Finale at +100db RMS and approaching 120db peaks, but does that matter if the Humboldt betters the MAX's in every other aspect up to that point?

Remember the maximum power differences between the MAX and the Humboldt represents less than 2db of headroom!!

The power spec between these two amazing amplifiers tells very little of the performance, especially with speakers with efficiencies in the mid to high 80s.

At this point, the only way to tell is to audition both in your system. Nothing you read or that I say will substitute for this.

Kerry

 

[matakana]

I did this, courtesy of the excellent Sonic Purity dealership in Melbourne.
It was kind of them to set it up- I was interested in the Max, and only heard the Humboldt out of curiosity.
It was much better- fluent, transparent, colourful, not brash in any way. Played loud and clear, with excellent inner light and detail, I remember hearing Eric Bibb sound particularly real and clear.
I liked it so much I bought it

Lux audio in Melbourne have the Audionet stern Heisenberg with the big Goebel aeons !

 

[heihei]

Kerry - how does the Humboldt match the Bayz? Bayz now have a UK distributor, so I may get the change to try with my Stern / Heisenberg set-up.

 

[musicfirst1]

Kerry - how does the Humboldt match the Bayz? Bayz now have a UK distributor, so I may get the change to try with my Stern / Heisenberg set-up.

The Humboldt drives the Bayz Courantes @ 90db efficiency exceptionally well. I imagine the big Bayz Counterpoints @94 db would be even more frighteningly good with the Humboldt as well; and the Heisenbergs.....

Kerry

 

[Addicted to hifi]

The Humboldt drives the Bayz Courantes @ 90db efficiency exceptionally well. I imagine the big Bayz Counterpoints @94 db would be even more frighteningly good with the Humboldt as well; and the Heisenbergs.....

KerryView attachment 85162

Looks amazing and I bet it sounds it to.

 

[sbo6]

I stand by my original comments 100%. Owning both and driving a relatively efficient speaker like your Giya g2/s or my Bayz Audio Courantes, the Humboldt is more dynamic, more resolving, more present and more musical than the MAXs within their stated power ratings.

In fact, the Humboldt sounds more like the Heisenbergs than the MAXs in every important respect save ultimate authority.

One must realize that the Giyas can be driven to well in excess of 100 db peaks with either amps.

Certainly, I can (and have!) shut the Humboldt down 2db sooner than the MAXs on Reference Recording's Bercuse and Finale at +100db RMS and approaching 120db peaks, but does that matter if the Humboldt betters the MAX's in every other aspect up to that point?

Remember the maximum power differences between the MAX and the Humboldt represents less than 2db of headroom!!

The power spec between these two amazing amplifiers tells very little of the performance, especially with speakers with efficiencies in the mid to high 80s.

At this point, the only way to tell is to audition both in your system. Nothing you read or that I say will substitute for this.

Kerry

Thanks again Kerry for your opinion and experiences. My concern isn't about which shuts down first (I never plan to play that loud to make that happen) but more about what happens to the sound before it reaches shutdown (compression, lack of dynamics, distortion, etc.).

Also, a word of caution WRT your hearing playing ~100DB. And shutting down an amp isn't a good thing for the amp and the speakers.
In addition, the 2DB you mentioned isn't linear, depends on the material, room size, speaker distance to sweet spot etc.
Lastly, the dealer you mentioned is the one who provided me the feedback that either can win, depends on your needs, system etc. So FWIW you both are both at odds WRT the Humboldt vs. G2/ performance. I'd love to read your comparison feedback with a blind test.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

The Humboldt drives the Bayz Courantes @ 90db efficiency exceptionally well. I imagine the big Bayz Counterpoints @94 db would be even more frighteningly good with the Humboldt as well; and the Heisenbergs.....

KerryView attachment 85162

Love the picture on the wall as well.

 

[sbo6]

Pretty soon i'll be demoing the Humboldt in my system and will let you guys know if it can drive my very difficult Thiel that spend most of the time between 2.4 and 3 ohms.
I'm not confident at all because my Diablo 300 doesn't drive them to 100%, lack of bass.
Strangely the Audionet dealer is very confident, let's see if he is right.

Looking forward to your assessment and love your digital and power conditioner ;-)

 

[Addicted to hifi]

thank you very much for your opinion. I don’t think that my speaker is a problem - Stenheim alumine tre, 93 sensibilty, 8 ohm

br anders

Welcome to wbf.

 

[Thieliste]

The Humboldt drives the Bayz Courantes @ 90db efficiency exceptionally well. I imagine the big Bayz Counterpoints @94 db would be even more frighteningly good with the Humboldt as well; and the Heisenbergs.....

KerryView attachment 85162

I see you have an Incito S in your system, do you drive the Maxs with it ? how's that pairing ?