Audiophile Fuses

[Steve williams]

Good to read that someone agrees with me on directivity. It makes absolutely no sense to me for the prices these fuses cost when Tomelex has explained it perfectly

 

[microstrip]

Excuse me Steve, price? I think the fuses are a bargain given the results one obtains using them.

Myles,
In order to estimate if fuses are a bargain, you have to estimate their lifetime. I have owned a Dartzeel amplifier that used with my inadequate speakers having low efficiency and low impedance would burn the mains fuse at music peaks - sometimes twice during a recording. I went through several boxes while it stayed at my listening room...

We should remember that many well known engineers who designed excellent amplifiers used many fancy protection schemes to avoid fuses in their amplifiers just because they stated they would affect sound quality - and some of those who use them openly say they are only used for safety and reliability. Engineering is always a compromise.

BTW, mixing the directionality of transformers (due to asymmetrical leakage currents, an well documented and studied problem) with the directionality of fuses and wires is not a good service to the fuse cause ... And the given explanation does not stand even in Chinese.

 

[Steve williams]

Excuse me Steve, price? I think the fuses are a bargain given the results one obtains using them. I can also list a lot of other tweaks that are a lot more expensive and not only don't offer any return, but product negative effects.

And Steve, I'm really surprised by your comments. You should know given the resolution of your system that everything makes a difference; whether or not it's a positive effect is another story.

I also find it interesting that the same thing is happening in the fuse discussion as in the analog, cable, etc forums here. We have people who have not heard the fuses, cables, etc. are offering opinions on why the fuses can't possibly make a difference. It's kinda hard to take those arguments seriously. I've described the effects I heard in two sets of amps; if one listens and doesn't hear a difference one way or the other, then fine. But it seems that myself, Rich, Marty, Albert and Robert are the only people who have actually heard the HiFi Tuning fuses.

For the record, here's the explanation I received from Bernd regarding fuse directivity that weren't included in the review. Pardon Bernd since he's German and writing in English for me:

The explanation, that You can hear a difference in the directivity of fuses,
is related to the dynamic behaviour ( that means, for example the negative
portion of the ac- wave is a bit less attenuated, than the positive half AND
in Your following system (for example transformer)is the opposite
imbalance.) Than You hear a difference.
As usual in audio - sometimes You get the best results, compensating one
tiny error with another tiny error in the opposite direction.
By the way, the same way cables are "directional" . A much higher
"directionality" You´ll find with transformers - it makes a much bigger
difference, to which side phase is connected.

And there other designers out there who have heard difference between the sound of fuses from different manufacturers.

So I suggest Steve that you get a fuse or two and play with it in your LAMM gear; you might find the results surprising given the quality of your system.

Myles, I meant no disrespect however I am not an EE (nor you) so everything I base my comments is the little I know and remember from school a long time ago.

However , I will take you up on your suggestion Myles and find out what kind of fuses I have and how many I need and let's do the test. My suggestion is however that a group of locals here attend as well so that whatever I report not be construed as bias. Myles I do agree about tweaks. I use many, and have thrown away just as many so I am all open to a new revelation which if so I will also report.

I am interested in a recent comment that a directional fuse is a defective fuse and perhaps what you are hearing could be based on that explanation. Honestly I don't know and yes you are correct about the price of this fuse in the great scheme of things.Nonetheless I really agree with you. Tell me which ones you recommend and let's get some guys over here to do the test only to be certain there is no bias. Heck Myles if it is that good I will be the first to admit it.

 

[mep]

Steve-Thanks for having an open mind. You can't ask for more than that. The only problem I see with having people over and performing the fuse test is that you will have to power the gear down, switch the fuses, and wait for the gear to come back up to temperature by which time aural memories might fade. Still will be cool to try though. I for one have never tried any of the "super" fuses so I personally have no idea if they make any difference. And Microstrip, you must have had speakers that were't compatabile with your amp if you kept blowing fuses. I for one know that I couldn't live with a piece of geat that kept blowing fuses. Twice during the same recording?? Something was dead wrong. And this from a SS amp nonetheless.

 

[microstrip]

And Microstrip, you must have had speakers that were't compatabile with your amp if you kept blowing fuses. I for one know that I couldn't live with a piece of geat that kept blowing fuses. Twice during the same recording?? Something was dead wrong. And this from a SS amp nonetheless.

Yes. I own Soundlabs A1 PX that need a lot of power. I learned recently that the sensitivity of the Dartzeel protection trigger was later changed to avoid or at less reduce this problem.

 

[Steve williams]

Steve-Thanks for having an open mind. You can't ask for more than that. The only problem I see with having people over and performing the fuse test is that you will have to power the gear down, switch the fuses, and wait for the gear to come back up to temperature by which time aural memories might fade. Still will be cool to try though. I for one have never tried any of the "super" fuses so I personally have no idea if they make any difference. And Microstrip, you must have had speakers that were't compatabile with your amp if you kept blowing fuses. I for one know that I couldn't live with a piece of geat that kept blowing fuses. Twice during the same recording?? Something was dead wrong. And this from a SS amp nonetheless.

Thanks Mark

I must admit that I am fascinated and am eager to try the fuses and report back Unlike the scientists here no measurements will be done unless someone comes with appropriate measuring devices and knows how to interpret them otherwise everything will be by ear. I don't know Mark whether they make a difference either but I would sure like to know.

BTW, one thing that I have always adhered to when auditioning new gear is to ask "Did I hear something better or merely something different? If I heard something better , I ask "how so?"

 

[Robert]

I put the Supreme fuses back for now. After speaking with my rep, he advises some time to let them settle. I just figured that since they underwent a deep freeze, followed by a bolt of lightening for quantum tunneling, they would sound stellar right from the start. So, I'll reserve judgment until next week. Right now, they sound mechanical, raw, and disjointed.

The gold fuses are quite agreeable, and probably where one should start for a demo. I am not going to bias the results by spilling the effect I hear....

 

[Steve williams]

I put the Supreme fuses back for now. After speaking with my rep, he advises some time to let them settle. I just figured that since they underwent a deep freeze, followed by a bolt of lightening for quantum tunneling, they would sound stellar right from the start. So, I'll reserve judgment until next week. Right now, they sound mechanical, raw, and disjointed.

The gold fuses are quite agreeable, and probably where one should start for a demo. I am not going to bias the results by spilling the effect I hear....

so the Supreme have undergone cryo as well?

what reasoning should make these better?

 

[tony ky ma]

Same thinking with Tom, I found out sound different in direction when I home made inter connect cables, but after done paid no attention when in use. it will not be noticed in big difference at a 4 way 4 amps system, as Tom said can not check all the hook up wires, a DIYER should do projects with bigger return with less cost, my first choice is the tonearm cable, if you can make a cable with solid silver 30 AWG thin coasted and tie twisted, long enough to phono amp to replace the old one, you must be surprised with the result no matter how much you paid for a high end tonearm with the original one
tony ma

 

[DonH50]

I thought the symbol was just the company logo? A simple fuse cannot by nature be directional (must be something else in there if that's the case). Besides, the signal goes both ways (positive and negative)... Although I agree at the output of a power supply (d.c.) the current flows one way most of the time. Not sure why that matters to a fuse. As I understand it, the argument for directional cables typically revolves around load vs. source matching criteria rather than intrinsic directionality of current flow in the wire itself. That is, there's an embedded network that should be nearer the source or load.

A heavier fuse would provide lower impedance, and different fuse materials keep their impedance lower before breaking, but to my mind this is on the fringe of hearability (is that a word?) I did that experiment in the past, replacing speaker fuses with solid wire, but a small test group could not distinguish reliably over a small set of trials. Not saying folk can't, but I'm from Missouri -- ya' gotta' "show me"!

Interesting topic - Don

 

[tony ky ma]

Just to be clear tony, I do not believe in directionality of regular fuse or regular interconnect or speaker cable, as long as each end is the same connector, etc.


But I did try in fresh cut two pices silver wiers for making interconnect cable , connected to a small speaker driver, and reverse direction on both, they really sound small difference, may be after break in it changed, and I do believe after break in sound getting better especially tonearm cable, I always use radio line out signal to burn with a 2k resistor for a week of a fresh made before to put it on othorwise it will take too long to be done by the MC cart signal
tony ma

 

[tony ky ma]

Tony Ma, are you aware of how critical the position of your head is when doing any "comparing tests"?

http://www.ethanwiner.com/believe.html

Tom

When I do the comparing test in my system I will stand and sit all the listening area to check the image still in the same position, I do had critical position problem long time ago before but not now, from that time the system had been change a lot pictures show my set up without serious critical position problem
tony ma

 

[c1ferrari]

Very cool

pictures, Tony -- thanks for sharing!

 

[DonH50]

OT: Tony's other posts are worth reading/seeing. While I may not agree with all the assumptions, he has some gorgeous equipment and a lot of very interesting, thought-provoking ideas! Bravo, Tony! - Don

 

[Robert]

I put the Supreme fuses back for now. After speaking with my rep, he advises some time to let them settle.

Update: Supreme fuses are going, gold fuses are staying.

 

[audiosessions]

Update: Supreme fuses are going, gold fuses are staying.

Hi Robert,
I have a Spectral system, 30SS Pre, 4000S Pro CD, 250 amp. My used 4000S Pro came with a Hifi-tuning silverstar gold cap
5x20mm 1A slo blo fuse. I tryed the fuse in both directions. With the arrow up, same as when the power switch is in the on position the bass is deeper with a wamer, darker top end. The other direction, the bass is tighter, leaner and more open and brighter on the ttop end. I thought about upgrading to the Supreme fuses in all three componets. After reading your review it appears the Silver star gold might be a better match with my gear. Do you know of a hifi-tuning dealer that will offer one used fuse for demo.
Regards, Lawrence

 

[Robert]

Hi Lawrence, In my system, the Supreme fuses sounded somewhat mechanical and uninvolving. I think this could be a system-dependent issue, because others have found them to sound beneficial. I have not tried the Silver. In my system, the gold seems to add a touch of tonal richness and midrange depth. The Furutech fuses are said to be very good as well, but I am content not to try those.

Sometimes fuses will come on the used market, but with all the different specs, you may need to just buy new and sell yourself if it is not to your liking. That is what I did with the Supreme Hifi. I don't think demos are allowed, even through the Cable Co.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Hi Lawrence, In my system, the Supreme fuses sounded somewhat mechanical and uninvolving. I think this could be a system-dependent issue, because others have found them to sound beneficial. I have not tried the Silver. In my system, the gold seems to add a touch of tonal richness and midrange depth. The Furutech fuses are said to be very good as well, but I am content not to try those.

Sometimes fuses will come on the used market, but with all the different specs, you may need to just buy new and sell yourself if it is not to your liking. That is what I did with the Supreme Hifi. I don't think demos are allowed, even through the Cable Co.

Robert : I'm confused. Your first post was a thumbs down to the Supreme fuses with a caveat. Your last post seemed to indicate that you now liked the Supreme fuses. Now you seem to have junked them again. Am I reading something incorrectly?

 

[Robert]

Hi Miles, Yes, I think you are reading something incorrectly.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Hi Miles, Yes, I think you are reading something incorrectly.

OK so just to clear things up, are you or aren't you currently using the Supreme fuses