Speaking sonically only, what did you find in differences between the AMR and SR Orange?
Audiophile Fuses
- Thread starter MylesBAstor
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Speaking sonically only, what did you find in differences between the AMR and SR Orange?
Exactly the same thing that you say about "audiphiles" for buying a $ 150 fuse, when they could buy an AMR Gold, they could say about you for buying a 14 Pound fuse and being able to buy a stock fuse for a few pennies.
Seems to me the discussion has drifted into a modified version of cable/fuse denial. Instead of everything over OEM being snake oil, it's everything over an inexpensive alternative to OEM. If the cheap alternative satisfies someone(s), great. But some of the comments being made here are really coming the same ol' denial view and trolling.
Anyone with sense likes finding an inexpensive deal that delivers what they are looking for. Occasionally in the NOS and used tube world, for example, I come across great deals for tubes I'm looking for from sellers who don't know better, don't have a tester and are selling cheap, or because the market hasn't found that particular tube model. However, in a couple of decades up to 2000 heavily into high end audio and during the past eight years back getting back into it, I've rarely found the highly touted low cost tweak options to be any more than mediocre at best, or just not consonant with my sound preferences. That's also led me to see the commonly heard reviewer phrase, "punching well over its price," with a huge grain. This is not a comment about the AMR fuse specifically, as I haven't tried my pair yet, but about the drift of comments surrounding it from people who haven't done comparisons -- and have no intention of doing so -- but just latch onto others' finds to spout their prejudices.
Anyone with sense likes finding an inexpensive deal that delivers what they are looking for. Occasionally in the NOS and used tube world, for example, I come across great deals for tubes I'm looking for from sellers who don't know better, don't have a tester and are selling cheap, or because the market hasn't found that particular tube model. However, in a couple of decades up to 2000 heavily into high end audio and during the past eight years back getting back into it, I've rarely found the highly touted low cost tweak options to be any more than mediocre at best, or just not consonant with my sound preferences. That's also led me to see the commonly heard reviewer phrase, "punching well over its price," with a huge grain. This is not a comment about the AMR fuse specifically, as I haven't tried my pair yet, but about the drift of comments surrounding it from people who haven't done comparisons -- and have no intention of doing so -- but just latch onto others' finds to spout their prejudices.
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Shouldn't the manufacturer install these super fuses into their devices when they are being built. At least the ones that cost a few dollars more than the standard fuses they supply. If a preamp or amp is over $10,000 I would think the cost is pretty trivial and if the experiences are true and reproducible, they would be a very low cost and significant improvement in the sound quality. Larry
@Larry No, because fuses vary in sonic signatures, as well as varying in their effects on different systems. In addition, it would make the manufacturer responsible for the replacement of more expensive blown fuses. Altogether, it would drive up the cost of new equipment, while making buyers pay for something they might not want (in favor of another brand fuse, or even an OEM).
i do agree, manufacturers wont put their necks out to be at risk for something that expensive thats for sure. Besides they create a good base and the user can then tweak the sound to their liking using ancillaries such as fuses and cables - everyone have different tastes as it is . I imagine a lush sound for some and an unadulterated sound for others. coming to costs... i am really curious about the quantum science fuses now. I have a cable that would cost me $5 and one that would cost me $30000 and i do prefer the 30000k one over that of a stock. The difference between a cable and a fuse is - fuses can blow where cables cant so it is going to be quite something to replace an item that might just break on you and vaporise 10k in 1 go. Ack is right though...at the end of the day a fuse is essentially a resistor where if enough current comes in - it resists the current generate heat and blow up. perhaps and this is to be tested....one can get the same results as a quantum size fuse by upsizing the fuse size ie if your equipment says 1.6amp - put in a 3.2amp fuse. of course that risks your equipment...in my mind though...using third party fuses would do the same thing. anything wrong and the manufacturer knows about it - blame will be assigned to the fuse no doubt and ppl left hanging. so the question is how far do we go in this bobby of ours.
I think of a fuse as a special kind of power cord, the last link before getting to a component’s power supply, thus the last link affecting the quality of what the power supply and what everything that follows sees.
One of the things I’ve learned along the way using aftermarket fuses is that most developers vastly overrate (overstate) their fuse specs to protect against having lots of returns and warranty repairs, given the variety of users, set ups and situations that arise. Some don’t, which I don’t understand. In any case, I would never send a component for work with an aftermarket fuse. And if the fuse is the right value, or close (SR), then it’d be hard to hold against the user.
One of the things I’ve learned along the way using aftermarket fuses is that most developers vastly overrate (overstate) their fuse specs to protect against having lots of returns and warranty repairs, given the variety of users, set ups and situations that arise. Some don’t, which I don’t understand. In any case, I would never send a component for work with an aftermarket fuse. And if the fuse is the right value, or close (SR), then it’d be hard to hold against the user.
Bingo quite right there. It's part of the power to the component hence makes sense to optimise that last bit as we do to the power cables. As with power cables different fuses will sound different.
Didn't know about the overspec. I know for audiomagic fuses the fuse value is not a sticker but embossed into the end cap so I take that at face value same as the SR fuses. If indeed some other fuses out there put a large sticker on them without fuse values embossed on the cap with the sticker showing values.... the difference in sound could possibly not be from what they do to the fuse but just using a fuse with a larger value with less resistive characteristics within. Don't take my word for it, just thinking laterally.
Highlander, you might not send a component to work with an aftermarket fuse in, can iassume that overcurrent damage to circuits can be easily seen/verified when a circuit is looked at?
Are there any fuses that use silver wire in the fuse out of curiosity or advanced copper metallurgy?
Didn't know about the overspec. I know for audiomagic fuses the fuse value is not a sticker but embossed into the end cap so I take that at face value same as the SR fuses. If indeed some other fuses out there put a large sticker on them without fuse values embossed on the cap with the sticker showing values.... the difference in sound could possibly not be from what they do to the fuse but just using a fuse with a larger value with less resistive characteristics within. Don't take my word for it, just thinking laterally.
Highlander, you might not send a component to work with an aftermarket fuse in, can iassume that overcurrent damage to circuits can be easily seen/verified when a circuit is looked at?
Are there any fuses that use silver wire in the fuse out of curiosity or advanced copper metallurgy?
I’m not convinced about your greater value resistance theory. Different components take different values depending on the design and I’ve never heard a sound difference after increasing a value of the same fuse model in one component — except from blown to working ;-). If you dig a bit online about SR, you’ll find that starting from either the Black or Blue, there were a lot of blown ones at spec value. The reason was because SR, unlike virtually everyone else, does not build to UL/industry standard. Privately, they and their resellers started telling people to go up a value, or 25%. That’s what I’ve done successfully.
I have no doubt that overcurrent damage can be detected. The question is, can the difference between having used a 2A and 3.15A be detected. And is there a significant difference in time to blow between the two relative to what causes the blowing, e.g., a lightening storm surge? There are also cases where a European or other country manufacturer will underestimate what’s needed in the States or in a particular application, and with experience the importer tells customers, or customers learn, to use a higher value. In any case, overcurrent damage other from an external storm related surges is uncommon, except perhaps for designers that spec fuse values tightly. Most designs are made to handle a fair amount of user abuse and electrical supply variability (hence the overspeccing).
I have no doubt that overcurrent damage can be detected. The question is, can the difference between having used a 2A and 3.15A be detected. And is there a significant difference in time to blow between the two relative to what causes the blowing, e.g., a lightening storm surge? There are also cases where a European or other country manufacturer will underestimate what’s needed in the States or in a particular application, and with experience the importer tells customers, or customers learn, to use a higher value. In any case, overcurrent damage other from an external storm related surges is uncommon, except perhaps for designers that spec fuse values tightly. Most designs are made to handle a fair amount of user abuse and electrical supply variability (hence the overspeccing).
In my experience with SR fuse, I have never had a blown problem, until I have put them (it is a fuse holder with two units) in my new Gryphon Essence Preamp. The nominal value is 500 mA and the SRs were 635 mA. I have melted two units at power up. I'm not trying anymore, I'm back to the Stock fuses.
I read where the stock fuse in a gear sounded better than the newest orange fuse and the AMR better than the orange fuse. In the end, everything can change the sound, tweaks are like chasing your tail, always thinking something will be better instead of just sitting back and enjoying the gear as the professional designers meant it to sound. Some gear has no fuses in them, magnetic circuit breaker like Jeff Rowland gear. Years ago we pulled fuses out and inserted just bare copper wire the sound had more slam, but dangerous if something went wrong. Hardwire a power cord into the power supply, bypassing the IEC that also sounded better, but looked ugly as heck and sounded as good as many upscale power cords did. Why you were wired directly into the unit. I never thought the IEC was good for audio, it did give us a chance to play with power cords which in itself became a profit center for stores. I had my amp plugged into the outlet closest to my amp, but if I plug it in on the wall outlet on the other wall the amp produces a different sound, the same for any type of power conditioner or regenerator, further wall from the IEC inlet the thinner the sound for front end gear, and amps depending on the design. I use one by I stay in the HC outlets only and just for 2 pieces of my front-end gear. Plug your amp say in the top half of the wall ac outlet, then pull it and plugged into the bottom outlet the sound improves that cost zip. But it is a hobby so enjoy what you enjoy doing, tweaks are fun.
One can read all sorts of things on the internet. Where specifically did you read that the AMR is better than the Orange? I'm curious. I hope it wasn't the person who said the OEM was better than Orange.
I've never written that I consider the AMR Gold Fuse better than the SR Orange, as I've never actually compared them. I use SR Orange fuses in the Ayre QB-9 and the Schiit Freya, and I bought the AMR Gold Fuse for the Audio Resarch VS115 only to know its sound, but I never compared it side by side with another fuse. I also don't question who pays $150.00 on a fuse, because I paid the amount on two of them and I really like the result. What I meant, nothing more than that, is that the value for money of the AMR Gold Fuse is unbeatable. It delivers a wonderful result for what it costs and has an extremely pleasant sound, without promoting distortions in what I consider "ideal sound".
With regard to the result, it's necessary to differentiate performance from certain attributes and final sound. Eventually, even though it doesn't leverage certain attributes that are valuable to some people (eg, sound stage, bass speed and deep, etc.), one fuse has better synergy with the equipment than another. So, circumstantially, a "worse" or cheaper fuse can deliver superior results. The opposite is also true. I'm reading some comments that make me sure that some people don't know how to differentiate one thing from the other and establish a kind of "superiority gradation", sometimes putting the SR Orange above, sometimes putting the AMR Gold Fuse above. However, the circumstances of the experiment must always be taken into account.
I remember reading somewhere that the sound of a specific device was better with the AMR than with the SR. I consider this totally acceptable, but, at the time, the author made a point of clarifying that it was with specific equipment, without generalizing or even involving prices in the speech. There is no condition to establish fixed results, dissociated from the context of the experiment.
With regard to the result, it's necessary to differentiate performance from certain attributes and final sound. Eventually, even though it doesn't leverage certain attributes that are valuable to some people (eg, sound stage, bass speed and deep, etc.), one fuse has better synergy with the equipment than another. So, circumstantially, a "worse" or cheaper fuse can deliver superior results. The opposite is also true. I'm reading some comments that make me sure that some people don't know how to differentiate one thing from the other and establish a kind of "superiority gradation", sometimes putting the SR Orange above, sometimes putting the AMR Gold Fuse above. However, the circumstances of the experiment must always be taken into account.
I remember reading somewhere that the sound of a specific device was better with the AMR than with the SR. I consider this totally acceptable, but, at the time, the author made a point of clarifying that it was with specific equipment, without generalizing or even involving prices in the speech. There is no condition to establish fixed results, dissociated from the context of the experiment.
Thanks for clarifying the Orange vs AMR. I've tried a lot of brand and model fuses over the years at various price points with various gear and never found one that wasn't an improvement over the the OEM, whether or not I was satisfied with its sound (e.g., didn't like the tonal coolness of the SR Blue). When someone says the OEM is better, my first thought is bias about cost or their hearing ability. The latter is, well, we are as we are, but the unwillingness to differentiate between one's means or attitude towards spending and the actual sound is another matter.
I have tried 4 of the yellow fuses..one on my Innuos PhoenixNet ...one on each of my SET monoblocks...and will be adding one on my Lumin X1 Thursday or Friday night. So far they are amazing. Will be upgrading the amp fuses in the next month to the next level..The upgrade is free with the full price of the previous fuse covered .one of the designers of my SET amps came over when I put them in the SETs and he could not believe what he heard. My wife immediately said that the sound was clearer and faster.has anyone actually tried the quantum science fuses to report on the forum - silly money but hey so was a cable when i first entered the hobbyanyone compared them to an audiomagic ultimate premier fuse???
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What fuses did the Yellows replace? At Tweek Geek’s site there are three rave reviews that seem to have replaced OEM fuses and one that speaks generally about using other fuses. It’s hard to get a picture from that.
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I have a set of Clayton M200’s. Wilson modified the power supply and changed the capacitance to 360000 per mono. They shipped with the standard 5amp fast blow. I replaced them with orange if the same value. Currently they are about 150 hours in and are stable.
They do not make a night and day improvement , I will say the specificity of the soundstage is really where I have noticed benifits... that is to say the instruments are just that bit better organized in the sound stage.
Since these amps effectively run full bore all the time ( as most class A does) I think that if there is a break in it happens pretty quick. Of note, I have not experienced any of the pre breakin nasties mentioned in this thread.
Also, Clayton amps have a multi stage start up so it may not suffer any of the aforementioned blow up prematurely .
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