Republicoftexas69
Well-Known Member
If it is the same input/output values.Clever idea to burn-in the fuses in a piece of gear that is always on
Audiophile Fuses
- Thread starter MylesBAstor
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Republicoftexas69
Well-Known Member
Or if you do you have bought completely into psychoacoustics and will not admit you got suckered. "If you don’t hear any improvement you either bought the wrong fuse or you’re deaf."
What did PT Barnum say??????Long story short. You can’t plug in a brand new fuse in expectation it sounds perfect from the first hour. Most fuses need +\- 200 - 300 hours to burn in. In this time it’s possible that the system sounds crap for a few hours/days… I mostly let them bake in the PSU from my modem or switch which are on 24/7. After around two weeks I swap it into the component for which I bought it… If you don’t hear any improvement you either bought the wrong fuse or you’re deaf
Clever idea to burn-in the fuses in a piece of gear that is always on
Wish it was so easy with tubes...
Republicoftexas69
Well-Known Member
LessLoss Classic power the classic with Firewall 640x , Zavfino Silver Dart Graphene IC XLR and SE. goal is to transition to all LessLoss IC‘s after I sell down my cable collection.
The QSA process appears to be a burn-in process. There is a video of it on YouTube. The different prices allegedly reflect the length of the process. So having to burn in a product that you are effectively paying for burn in doesn't make any sense to me.Long story short. You can’t plug in a brand new fuse in expectation it sounds perfect from the first hour. Most fuses need +\- 200 - 300 hours to burn in. In this time it’s possible that the system sounds crap for a few hours/days… I mostly let them bake in the PSU from my modem or switch which are on 24/7. After around two weeks I swap it into the component for which I bought it… If you don’t hear any improvement you either bought the wrong fuse or you’re deaf
The reason why regulated safety fuses have to be mass-produced is because they have to be made to consistent and extremely tight tolerances that cannot be done, for example, by hand-made production. One issue is solder time because, obviously, fuse wire does not like heat. Littelfuse specify less than 5 seconds (ideally 2 seconds) with a low temperature limit (150c). The fuses are tested straight off the production line.
Having never heard a difference with any fuse, audiophile or otherwise, I must be stone deaf. I do wonder if psychologically it's possible to wait 200-300 hours and then not hear a difference! I was persuaded by a friend to get a few Analogue Productions and a Cohearent vinyl from the USA, I just got them today, took 3 weeks, if they don't knock it out of the park I will be extremely disappointed.
I mounted another two SR Masters right now. There’s an improvement from the 1st second, but what I hear now is by far not the full potential of this fuse. It will definitely sound way better after a ~200-300 hr burn in period.
No idea why you didn’t hear any improvement from any fuse
Republicoftexas69
Well-Known Member
Let you know how the SDFB works when I get back in town next week, have one coming for one of my tube integrateds. Off the fuse merry-go-round for me. Have had great results with their Puron product in my audio chain. Also much more economical and like the idea of a magnetic CB as that can be reset rather than a spending $600.00 USD on a fuse.View attachment 120578
I mounted another two SR Masters right now. There’s an improvement from the 1st second, but what I hear now is by far not the full potential of this fuse. It will definitely sound way better after a ~200-300 hr burn in period.
No idea why you didn’t hear any improvement from any fuse
The QSA process doesn‘t aim to burn anything in the way running current through it would. That should be obvious by the long burn in times reported combined with what’s said about the sound quality once it gets through that. No amount of burn in could achieve what the QSA process achieves.
Except what’s usually reported is a roller coaster ride, especially early on. Hints of the magic appear along the way and then finally things settle and all one is left with is just that magic.
Bias works in the other direction too. I think can be so against the idea that something can make a difference that it can end up causing that outcome for that outcome for that person.
I got my first taste of audiophile fuses maybe 15 years ago. It was with a relatively affordable Furutech fuse. Up to that point I had never heard anything else that had delivered such a huge bang for the buck. That got me hooked. Eventually every component ended up with a HiFi Tuning Supreme fuse. Then those gave way to Synergistic Black. Then later it became Blue and now finally Orange with one Purple thrown in. I’ve opted to remain there despite knowing how easy it would be to improve things further given the many more options available via QSA or maybe even the SR Master fuse. I’ve opted instead to get my QSA magic via the truly excellent QSA Lanedri products. My oh my what an amazing level of improvement I got from that stuff.
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Entirely possible. Everyone's hearing (aural-brain connection) is different and many people suffer from limitations significant enough that even with experience they are not able to hear many essential kinds of differences that others can (it's possible for serious dedicated training to partially overcome that in some cases). Impatience about burnin aside, psychology comes into play when instead of looking in the mirror to their own circumstances, be it hearing, equipment or finances, some people instead disdain the abilities or honesty of others who do hear differences and then make it known by disrupting forum discussions. I'm not clear from your post if you are currently burning in a dedicated aftermarket audiophile type fuse or two right now or not, that is, something far more able than the Littlejohn is likely to provide. If so, I suggest that you listen every day and take notes about aspects of the sound that stand out to you for better and worse. If you can hear differences, then over the course of 300 hours or more your notes will tell a story, and it won't be one of continual improvement. If not, then either your equipment or your hearing is not sensitive enough. In either case, find what you enjoy. That's the point, after all.
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When one needs to maintain a delusion, profound cognitive dissonance can be felt when reality intrudes on that delusion. The only way to deal with that when one is unwilling to discard their delusion is to try to rationalize it away. In extreme cases, some actively try to redefine reality so it conforms to their delusion. Not saying that’s what’s going on here, but when there is evidence of repeated attempts to misrepresent or mock what others have said they observe, there may be some form of that at play.
Psychological projection is a protection mechanism that tries to place the problem outside of oneself to avoid acknowledging that it is actually found within. Again, not saying that this has been happening on this thread, but I do think it drives some of the behaviors of the cable deniers. The last thing many of them want to do is look in the mirror.
Excellent advice.
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My integrated amplifier does not have an external fuse. Nor did my previous integrated amplifier. My previous streamer (Innuos Zen Mk3) used a 2A fuse, it came with Littelfuse installed, after several years I replaced it with a SR Black. I cannot say that I heard any difference, when new or later on.
I bought an Innuos Pulsar and before selling the Zen Mk3, swapped the SR Black into the Pulsar, so was comparing a new Littelfuse with a 3 years old SR Black. No difference.
I don't listen at home every day. I don't have the time or inclination. Usually Saturday morning and a couple of evenings each week, in between we go to 2 or 3 live performances each week, sometimes more sometimes less, depending on the season.
I don't hear changes with the same equipment over time. Most of my listening is musicians I know from performance, or music I've heard and then I will listen to other pieces by the same composer or performer. I do hear, for example, when a performer I like has recorded in a different venue, as do most listeners of classical music, and you don't need expensive hifi to hear it.
I am well aware we all hear differently, and we all hear differently at different times of the day. I go to an annual series of concerts at Oxford University that combine scientific lectures and chamber recitals, which are most interesting. I've learned all sorts of stuff. One of the more interesting was an experiment listening to a jazz trio (percussion, piano, bass) in complete darkness, I mean absolute pitch black, every source of light extinguished and blindfolds were provided, but not really necessary.
As our hearing deteriorates as we get older, and from 50+ it's a serious downward slope, our brains compensate and music is just as enjoyable, and conductors and instrumentalists can still perform reliably into old age with seriously impaired hearing. It's a very complex thing and from what I've learned, our own auditory worlds are likely unique.
What gets me about fuses is the idea that they are a bottleneck, the weakest point in any system. It's just not true. The current through my 3.15A SR Black (or the 2A fuse it replaced) will never reach 0.1A. It will not heat up under load. The resistance will not change under load. If people hear improvements with different fuses, then that's good for them. Personally, I don't.
Can you tell me what the QSA process is. I asked the UK distributor. He refused to tell me.
So I looked online and found a video of Mr Tsang doing the process to a cable. He is running a current through it, because it is is attached with a cable clip. The video is still there, it's easy to find.
The QSA process is non-invasive. If it's not running a current through the fuse/cable, what on earth is it?
Not that you’ll get anywhere, but there are two threads for that discussion:
QSA : My take on their expensive products
Threre has been another WBF thread on QSA fuses for some weeks already, but I still want to share with WBF brothers my personal audition/comparison experience. Disclaimer : I am NOT in anyway in the music/hifi industry in Hong Kong. I am only an audiophile and consumer. All WBF brothers who...
www.whatsbestforum.com
QSA LANEDRI Series
Hi Steven, Very glad yo see that there is a QSA Forum on WBF. Congratulations! https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/qsa-my-take-on-their-expensive-products.33833/ I think I wrote the first QSA review on WBF, back in 2012. :D...
www.whatsbestforum.com
It sounds like you convinced yourself that they couldn’t possibly make a difference. I think if you polled those who hear improvements from fuses, 99% of the would say they have no clue why they make a difference, but they sure can bring improvements.
Many years ago I read an explanation someone knowledgeable put forth about why fuses could have such an outsized influence. I wish I could remember it but, as one might expect, the size of the element was a key consideration.
I think it would be foolhardy to reach any conclusions about the audibility of fuses without trying to understand what is different about passing current across such a small conductor. Physics would suggest there has to be a difference, particular when dealing with dynamic current. I don’t know if you are right that in your example l that it “will never reach 0.1A”, but that may be too simplistic of a way to think about it with components that are tasked with meeting instantaneous demands for current.
I've assumed that improved fuses are in effect better at letting through what power cords are sonically delivering, since they are the final step in the path to the power supply; i.e., cheap fuses have been a roadblock all these decades. But still, as a device itself the (audiophile) developer designs and voices their models, which is why the different effects in what we hear. While I haven't tried either of the new top SR or AM ones, QSA's process seems to have cleared a lot out of the way.
If I'd convinced myself beforehand I wouldn't have bought an audiophile fuse.
It's not simplistic at all. I spoke to Dr Sean Jacobs, who designed the power supply that the fuse was attached to. He explained that the Innuos Pulsar has a version of his popular ARC6 design. The peak power consumption is 13.7w, less than 0.1A with our 230v supply, in fact closer to 0.05A.
The Innuos units are fitted with Littlefuse (cost $1). Innuos for their part give instructions on fuses, where to get replacements, and advice if you use an audiophile fuse, including increased value and directionality.
Replacing the fuse on Innuos products - Innuos - High-Fidelity Digital Music Servers and Streamers
How to replace the fuse on any Innuos model
innuos.com
Fuses are sophisticated devices with a vast range of designs for different applications. The sophistication seems to be in providing unchanging performance up to rated load and then a wide range of performance characteristics in over-current load. When you talk about dynamic current, I think you are talking about over-current conditions. There are fuses with specifications to deal with that. You will see them used in high current amplifiers.
I don't agree that they are a small conductor. They may seem small to audiophiles conditioned to mega-thick cables. The size of the conductor is determined by the required specification. The conductors in audiophile fuses won't be any thicker.
If I'd convinced myself beforehand I wouldn't have bought an audiophile fuse.
It's not simplistic at all. I spoke to Dr Sean Jacobs, who designed the power supply that the fuse was attached to. He explained that the Innuos Pulsar has a version of his popular ARC6 design. The peak power consumption is 13.7w, less than 0.1A with our 230v supply, in fact closer to 0.05A.
The Innuos units are fitted with Littlefuse (cost $1). Innuos for their part give instructions on fuses, where to get replacements, and advice if you use an audiophile fuse, including increased value and directionality.
I'm not sure you can get more even-handed than that.Replacing the fuse on Innuos products - Innuos - High-Fidelity Digital Music Servers and Streamers
How to replace the fuse on any Innuos model
Fuses are sophisticated devices with a vast range of designs for different applications. The sophistication seems to be in providing unchanging performance up to rated load and then a wide range of performance characteristics in over-current load. When you talk about dynamic current, I think you are talking about over-current conditions. There are fuses with specifications to deal with that. You will see them used in high current amplifiers.
I don't agree that they are a small conductor. They may seem small to audiophiles conditioned to mega-thick cables. The size of the conductor is determined by the required specification. The conductors in audiophile fuses won't be any thicker.
You' found that fuses don't make a difference for you. Isn't it time to move on?
No, that’s not what I’m talking about. I thought my mentioning “components that are tasked with meeting instantaneous demands for current” would have provided sufficient context.
Yet again you misrepresent my argument. I’ll stop now. I agree with the post above. Time for you to move on.
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