Audiophile Fuses

[shel50]

yes---I posted a message saying same thing---littlefuse makes
legit priced right fuses..been using them for a while now

No, your "presumably" is the point. Audio gear generally doesn't ship with anything other than run of the mill fuses. And yet they sound better than most of the audiophile trinkets that are talked about here. That means to me that run of the mill fuses themselves deserve discussion in this thread and the 285 most certainly does. Carry on.

WELL STATED. I ABSOLUTELY CONCUR!!!!!!

 

[christoph]

Could be, but there are 2 saying AP fuses are a waste of $$$

I rather enjoy tube rolling much more than the money spent on these purple things.

I do both, happily

 

[shel50]

Agree 100% on spending money on Tube rolling

 

[Randyrue]

I'll take a couple slugs. What sizes do you have? Feel free to PM me.

I would like to try a couple of slugs also. I have two model block Audio Research 160 M reference amps. They have the long 5 1/2 app fuses. If plugs would work I may have by a couple breakers for them.

 

[Randyrue]

@highstream If that were the case, then your house would be at risk since we we switched from fuses to breakers to protect your home decades ago.

I have 40 years experience in the utility business as an engineer and a manager. At this moment, I have an electrical engineer designing a new 12kv electrical supply for a medium sized facility and we are working through the protection scheme. Fuses are still used in a few places where minimal protection is required but circuit breakers are required instead of fuses in most applications because they do a BETTER job of protecting the equipment and the upstream circuit.

Recognize that the fuse is there in your component as a good faith attempt to prevent or limit damage to the component should a short or transient occur. the house and the wall circuit are protected by your circuit breaker. Fuses are sized to protect the downstream load.

There are 2 main types of circuit breakers: magnetic and thermal. Thermal breakers are not much better than fuses if at all. they still rely on a bimetal strip to heat up which means they have to have a significant resistance (to create the heat) and limit current flow during dynamic sections. This degrades sonic performance.

Magnetically tripped circuit breakers do not limit current and for large and important circuits they can carry tremendous amounts of current and trip very fast. Note that in your amp a slo-blo fuse is often used that isn't a fast interrupt. Magnetically tripped breakers can be extremely complex and powerful. I have seen breakers that cost $50k to have a contractor program them.

Certainly I do believe a circuit breaker will make quite a bit of difference in the sound--an improvement. A circuit breaker has high current contacts with very low resistance so they avoid all the negatives of fuses. It will not degrade sonic performance.

given the market for audiophile fuses that still have to blow so they offer a limited improvement over the standard fuses, I can't fathom why this hasn't been developed and offered. My job is getting easier and I may start developing one. As I said, the SDFB is making good progress.

Note that fuses NEVER improve sonic performance. An audiophile fuse can cause less degradation in sonic performance.

I do testing with high purity copper slugs to evaluate the effect the fuse is having on each component. If the slug doesn't improve the sound, then the fuse is doing no harm. this is generally true on a low current device (such as a streamer) with a good power supply. Amps seem to always benefit from eliminating the fuse.

If anyone wants a slug for testing, let me know, i made a lot of them.

As for pricey--the $400 to $1200 audiophile fuses seem to be flying off the shelf. Anybody that spends $100k on a system should not hesitate to spend a few hundred for a clear improvement. I can't see an audio specific circuit breaker costing more than $200 to $500 and probably less if mass produced. If bespoke breakers are made with solid silver contacts and the like, I'm sure they will get more expensive.

Jerry

Hello Jerry, I would very much like a couple of slugs for testing. I was trying so purples and they blew has soon as I powered up. I was then sent the next size up and they were working for a couple months then one blew. This got me to check this forum. Slugs make a lot of sense to me and would like to test this. Please PM me and let me know if this is still an option. Thanks Randy

 

[Carlsbad]

Hello Jerry, I would very much like a couple of slugs for testing. I was trying so purples and they blew has soon as I powered up. I was then sent the next size up and they were working for a couple months then one blew. This got me to check this forum. Slugs make a lot of sense to me and would like to test this. Please PM me and let me know if this is still an option. Thanks Randy

@Randyrue I am not afraid at all to put a slug into a properly functioning amp as the chance of an overcurrent situation is very unlikely while testing (avoid lightning storms).

That said, I would be reluctant to put a slug into an amp that is blowing fuses as that likely indicates something is wrong. I sent you a PM. I'll be glad to share some slugs with you. I think anyone posting here can afford to buy a new amp if their current amp blows up. but recognize the risk and don't leave it unattended.

Jerry

 

[Apogeelover]

@highstream If that were the case, then your house would be at risk since we we switched from fuses to breakers to protect your home decades ago.

I have 40 years experience in the utility business as an engineer and a manager. At this moment, I have an electrical engineer designing a new 12kv electrical supply for a medium sized facility and we are working through the protection scheme. Fuses are still used in a few places where minimal protection is required but circuit breakers are required instead of fuses in most applications because they do a BETTER job of protecting the equipment and the upstream circuit.

Recognize that the fuse is there in your component as a good faith attempt to prevent or limit damage to the component should a short or transient occur. the house and the wall circuit are protected by your circuit breaker. Fuses are sized to protect the downstream load.

There are 2 main types of circuit breakers: magnetic and thermal. Thermal breakers are not much better than fuses if at all. they still rely on a bimetal strip to heat up which means they have to have a significant resistance (to create the heat) and limit current flow during dynamic sections. This degrades sonic performance.

Magnetically tripped circuit breakers do not limit current and for large and important circuits they can carry tremendous amounts of current and trip very fast. Note that in your amp a slo-blo fuse is often used that isn't a fast interrupt. Magnetically tripped breakers can be extremely complex and powerful. I have seen breakers that cost $50k to have a contractor program them.

Certainly I do believe a circuit breaker will make quite a bit of difference in the sound--an improvement. A circuit breaker has high current contacts with very low resistance so they avoid all the negatives of fuses. It will not degrade sonic performance.

given the market for audiophile fuses that still have to blow so they offer a limited improvement over the standard fuses, I can't fathom why this hasn't been developed and offered. My job is getting easier and I may start developing one. As I said, the SDFB is making good progress.

Note that fuses NEVER improve sonic performance. An audiophile fuse can cause less degradation in sonic performance.

I do testing with high purity copper slugs to evaluate the effect the fuse is having on each component. If the slug doesn't improve the sound, then the fuse is doing no harm. this is generally true on a low current device (such as a streamer) with a good power supply. Amps seem to always benefit from eliminating the fuse.

If anyone wants a slug for testing, let me know, i made a lot of them.

As for pricey--the $400 to $1200 audiophile fuses seem to be flying off the shelf. Anybody that spends $100k on a system should not hesitate to spend a few hundred for a clear improvement. I can't see an audio specific circuit breaker costing more than $200 to $500 and probably less if mass produced. If bespoke breakers are made with solid silver contacts and the like, I'm sure they will get more expensive.

Jerry

Carlsbad,Could you please explain a little more about the types of circuit breakers because I`m a little confused having looked on the RS Components website where all the breakers described as magnetic are called thermal magnetic?

 

[Carlsbad]

Thermal magnetic breakers are very popular especially in home protection (main breaker boxes) because they are seen as the safest and best belt-and-suspenders protection for your home and I don't disagree.
Here is a discussion:

Absolutely Everything You Need to Know About a Thermal Magnetic Circui

Do you know how a thermal magnetic circuit breaker works? It’s important that you understand because it’s most likely the best option for your home or building. Make the wrong choice in terms of the circuit breaker you choose and you won’t just waste money, you could put your wiring, even your...

www.circuitbreakerwholesale.com

So as I've said before, the thermal portion of the circuit limits rapid power changes and negatively affects sound. fuses are the worst, bimetal strips are second worst.

So like you, I can't find magnetic (only ) 3A ciruit breakers. There are lots of 1000A magnetic programmable industrial circuit breakers. I'd like to see a simple 3 amp magnetic only circuit breaker for audio.

Jerry

 

[wil]

Hello Jerry, I would very much like a couple of slugs for testing. I was trying so purples and they blew has soon as I powered up. I was then sent the next size up and they were working for a couple months then one blew. This got me to check this forum. Slugs make a lot of sense to me and would like to test this. Please PM me and let me know if this is still an option. Thanks Randy

Sorry for the simpleton question, but how are the slugs used? Are they placed at the fuse location?

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Thermal magnetic breakers are very popular especially in home protection (main breaker boxes) because they are seen as the safest and best belt-and-suspenders protection for your home and I don't disagree.
Here is a discussion:

Absolutely Everything You Need to Know About a Thermal Magnetic Circui

Do you know how a thermal magnetic circuit breaker works? It’s important that you understand because it’s most likely the best option for your home or building. Make the wrong choice in terms of the circuit breaker you choose and you won’t just waste money, you could put your wiring, even your...

www.circuitbreakerwholesale.com

So as I've said before, the thermal portion of the circuit limits rapid power changes and negatively affects sound. fuses are the worst, bimetal strips are second worst.

So like you, I can't find magnetic (only ) 3A ciruit breakers. There are lots of 1000A magnetic programmable industrial circuit breakers. I'd like to see a simple 3 amp magnetic only circuit breaker for audio.

Jerry

Very interesting Jerry. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Carlsbad]

@wil Yes, they replace the fuse. While the slug is in place you have no overcurrent protection. The probability of a problem while testing is generally very low if you test for a limited time on a piece of equipment in good condition and don't do it during a lightning storm.

There are also people who run full time with slugs but they are willing to take more risk.

Other people can't imagine even testing with a slug.

Choose your own risk tolerance.

Jerry

 

[Thieliste]

Just ordered a Master fuse for my Vitus SIA-025 Mk2, i already have one in my DAC.
We'll see how that goes vs the Purple one.

 

[LL21]

Just ordered a Master fuse for my Vitus SIA-025 Mk2, i already have one in my DAC.
We'll see how that goes vs the Purple one.

Do you know the maker of the stock fuse in the Vitus?

 

[Thieliste]

Do you know the maker of the stock fuse in the Vitus?

ELU ?

 

[LL21]

ELU ?

Owned by German fuse manufacturer Siba. Apparently well regarded high voltage fuse maker. Acquired ELU in 1990 it appears.

Company - History - With experiences towards future

With experiences towards future

siba.de

 

[Thieliste]

Owned by German fuse manufacturer Siba. Apparently well regarded high voltage fuse maker. Acquired ELU in 1990 it appears.

Company - History - With experiences towards future

With experiences towards future

siba.de

Ok thanks, i almost never used it as i put a Purple fuse in my SIA-025 just after i got it.
Might receive the Master fuse today.

 

[christoph]

Ok thanks, i almost never used it as i put a Purple fuse in my SIA-025 just after i got it.
Might receive the Master fuse today.

Please report about the differences you find.

 

[ssfas]

There's a video of the Master fuse being used in a PS Audio DAC on YouTube where they switch back and forth between it and another fuse. The difference, even on YouTube, is clearly apparent.

The Master sounds pretty good. I had a chance to borrow one and found it to be a mild improvement over a $0.99 fuse in my T+A DAC. Most of the time, the audiophile fuses sound too {warm, muddy, overdamped} <--- take your pick.

PS Audio use specialist “T” fuses on their amps for high inrush load.

I think he was using fuses from HiFi Tuning or Littelfuse and adopted them as standard. They are very modestly priced in the weird world of audiophile fuses, but still many times more expensive than stock fuses.

 

[highstream]

PS Audio use specialist “T” fuses on their amps for high inrush load.

I think he was using fuses from HiFi Tuning or Littelfuse and adopted them as standard. They are very modestly priced in the weird world of audiophile fuses, but still many times more expensive than stock fuses.

Do you know what that T stands for? See the link below. I had two generations of PSA dacs and still have a regenerator, and all the fuses, inside and out, have been standard cheap OEM glass small slow blows. Nothing “specialized” about them. I’ve yet to see or read of a developer using anything but cheapies. I also don’t think an audio-medical Littlefuse costs much more than those. https://nationalfuse.com/what-does-the-t-and-f-stand-for-when-it-comes-to-fuses/.

 

[ssfas]

Do you know what that T stands for? See the link below. I had two generations of PSA dacs and still have a regenerator, and all the fuses, inside and out, have been standard cheap OEM glass small slow blows. Nothing “specialized” about them. I’ve yet to see or read of a developer using anything but cheapies. I also don’t think an audio-medical Littlefuse costs much more than those. https://nationalfuse.com/what-does-the-t-and-f-stand-for-when-it-comes-to-fuses/.

Sorry, H rated, whatever they are. Specifically in the high power amplifiers.