Audiophile Fuses

[Kingrex]

I submit that as one improves his room acoustics treatments over the years one should relocate the speakers accordingly, as room acoustics changes, preferably using the XLO Test CD speaker set-up track, or the equivalent. Trying to find the very best speaker locations without a foolproof methodology is like trying to solve x simultaneous equations in x + n unknowns.

I 100% agree setup is critical. And so to speak, free??

 

[ssfas]

So sayeth the man with Wilsons.

They were nothing to do with me. My wife chose them. I wanted Harbeth.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

You seem to forget that a lot of audiophile fuses, such as those from QSA, Russ Andrews, MCRU and others, are mass-produced $0.30 fuses that have been treated somehow and repackaged.

Some like Russ Andrews and MCRU are honest as to what they do, usually just replating the caps, and they are cheap - under $10.View attachment 126256

Others like QSA are evasive, relabel the fuses (illegal in the UK) and their other claims do dot withstand any scrutiny. They are expensive to hugely expensive.

Your are making a false equivalence between fuses, which the vast majority of audiophiles consider a non-issue, and things like speaker placement, which all audiophiles know is an issue, and placement often determines speaker choice. My speakers were positioned by my Wilson dealer and haven't moved since.

When I stream music there are 7 fuses in play, besides the sealed ones, that's a lot of possible combinations (49?). Life I too short. If fuses are directional, and act as a choke, surely it could be measured rather than testing 49 fuse direction combinations.

You can't make a solid copper fuse because copper's melting point is over 1,000 C. I presume that is why fuse wire is often made of tin-plated copper. The caps are mostly copper, because they are mostly brass, which is mostly copper, plated with silver or nickel, it seems because those metals are non-corrosive. Fuses of this design cost $0.30 and are made to far better tolerances than could ever be made by an audiophile fuse manufacturer.

Okay so you are a fuse denier. Move along already.

 

[Geoffkait]

They’re also called refuseniks.

 

[kennyb123]

You don't have to pay attention to a fuse if you don't want. You don't have to pay attention to any tuning if you don't want to. You are welcome to place your gear on a Ikea media center and use Home Depot cabling throughout. Shove the speakers in the corner and hit play. Its up to you. Most people who are on these forums are trying to find a higher level of performance.

Well said. The forum is called the What's BEST Forum and most folks who participate here decide that by listening on their own while trying their best to keep their biases in check. Those who can only hear what their limited understanding permits them to hear might find themselves fitting in better on another forum.

 

[ssfas]

Okay so you are a fuse denier. Move along already.

I did try a couple, made no difference.

We in the UK are obliged to use multiple 13A fuses and there are no audiophile versions other than with replated caps, because it is too expensive to get them certified. So we don’t really have the option.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I did try a couple, made no difference.

We in the UK are obliged to use multiple 13A fuses and there are no audiophile versions other than with replated caps, because it is too expensive to get them certified. So we don’t really have the option.

So why do you keep hammering on people who have the option and did hear a difference. Personally I am not a fuse guy and only shared my past experience and what I found that work. And you can not use them in the UK either, the SDFB. So Git along ...

 

[Geoffkait]

I totally get it. Anti-fuse personnel are not used to evaluating teeny tiny things, having rejected them right off the bat because they can’t possibly affect the sound. They’re just too small. It’s a little bit like Covid deniers, remember that fiasco?

Audiophiles frequently can’t wrap their heads around certain things, things that don’t compute - you know, tiny little bowl acoustic resonators, the green pen, the purple pen around CD, silver holographic foils, CD sprays, Mpingo ebony disc, CD demagnetizers, RFI, the diode symbol on fuses, The Intelligent Chip and WA Quantum Chips, Marigo VTS Dots, Schumann frequency 7.83Hz tone from YouTube, things of that nature. Too small or you can’t see them.

“A rich man has about as much chance of getting into audiophile heaven as a camel has of passing through the eye of a needle.” - audiophile axiom

 

[Argonaut]

A shout out to UK Synergistic fuse users , out of preference , are you orientating the S or the R pointing toward the earth pin ?

 

[Anyoldears]

A shout out to UK Synergistic fuse users , out of preference , are you orientating the S or the R pointing toward the earth pin ?

R

 

[Geoffkait]

I’m a little surprised that nobody asked, “How can fuses be directional, they’re in an AC circuit? Current travels in both directions in an AC circuit.”

 

[highstream]

I’m a little surprised that nobody asked, “How can fuses be directional, they’re in an AC circuit? Current travels in both directions in an AC circuit.”

Can't find the link to where someone explained it, but as I recall it largely has to do with the way the wire on the spool is drawn.

 

[Geoffkait]

Thanks for your response but I was looking for a counter-argument from a fuse skeptic.

 

[ssfas]

Thanks for your response but I was looking for a counter-argument from a fuse skeptic.

I think I’m becoming an audio sceptic generally. Went to collect my Garrard 301 from Classic Turntable this morning and heard it through an SME V, Quad 44 control amp, Quad II SE amplifiers and a pair of home made speakers, and it sounded marvellous. No fancy fuses, cables, mains stuff …

 

[kennyb123]

Of course marvelous sound can be achieved when using excellent products. If one stops there though, they leave money on the table as they aren’t really able to hear how good these components can actually perform. One can get an astonishing increase in performance by establishing a good foundation (power distribution, cabling, supports, etc). It’s smart to try to get more from one’s investment particularly if the gains justify the additional investment. Boasting about being an audio skeptic is equivalent to boasting about cutting off one’s nose to spite their face.

 

[ssfas]

Of course marvelous sound can be achieved when using excellent products. If one stops there though, they leave money on the table as they aren’t really able to hear how good these components can actually perform. One can get an astonishing increase in performance by establishing a good foundation (power distribution, cabling, supports, etc). It’s smart to try to get more from one’s investment particularly if the gains justify the additional investment. Boasting about being an audio skeptic is equivalent to boasting about cutting off one’s nose to spite their face.

A classic FOMO argument. I was of course being a little sarcastic, but it is good to be reminded how spectacularly good some hifi from 70 years ago was and still is. It’s still current, the Quad II amps have been in production for 70 years.

I have a dedicated room, acoustically treated, a dedicated 100A supply, effective cabling and a new rack being made. I agree that these are important foundations.

I’ve long since moved on from worrying about what things cost and I certainly don’t see hifi as an investment. That’s salesman talk. No do I see that cost correlates much with how enjoyable some systems are to listen to. For me it’s money I can afford and never expect to get a penny back, so the complete opposite of an investment. Just like any other hobby, my audio comes from discretionary spending of surplus income.

 

[kennyb123]

A classic FOMO argument

I find it bizarre that you would say this. Those who try to extract the most from the money they spent because they find that doing so has increased their musical enjoyment are just being smart. Alternatively, if they don’t care to spend anymore because they are happy with the way things are, they are also being smart. What’s ridiculous though is obsessing over a product one believes to have provided them with no benefit.

I actually just looked up that famous line from Shakespeare about protesting too much and got a kick out of what I found in Wikipedia:

“The phrase is used in everyday speech to indicate doubt of someone's sincerity, especially regarding the truth of a strong denial.”

That is spot on, methinks.

 

[ssfas]

I find it bizarre that you would say this. Those who try to extract the most from the money they spent because they find that doing so has increased their musical enjoyment are just being smart. Alternatively, if they don’t care to spend anymore because they are happy with the way things are, they are also being smart. What’s ridiculous though is obsessing over a product one believes to have provided them with no benefit.

I actually just looked up that famous line from Shakespeare about protesting too much and got a kick out of what I found in Wikipedia:

“The phrase is used in everyday speech to indicate doubt of someone's sincerity, especially regarding the truth of a strong denial.”

That is spot on, methinks.

I try and be healthily sceptical about most things. There are lots of audiophiles who are neurotic about missing out and, excluding those for whom money is not a concern, one of the biggest issues is whether they can afford the next best thing. I was looking at a streamer and the online manual said to connect it "with the best cable you can afford". The problem is, whilst not especially wealthy, I could have afforded a cable that cost 10 times the price of the streamer. So do I spend $20k on an HDMI cable for a $2k streamer? Plus we have better things to spend money on. We like ceramics and last week bought a piece from South Korea that cost as much as our Wilson speakers, the difference being the ceramics is a good investment.

Living in a large city with lots of audio dealers and plenty of invites to demonstrations, there is no difficulty hearing as many systems as I want, at any price. I learned a long time ago that there are hugely expensive systems that I personally hated, for example one based around Magico M3 and Naim Statement, but other people loved it. I love Quad electrostatics and related Quad equipment. They sound real to me like no other speakers. I bought a pair and my wife told me to get rid of them, so I did and next time let her choose the speakers.

Fuses? An interesting product because there are so many lies and misinformation about them. Hardly surprising if you can take a $0.30 product, relabel it and sell if for $10,000. https://www.futureshop.co.uk/quantum-science-audio-gold-extreme-level-uk-mains-fuse
I did try a couple, but I can't say they made a difference. Apparently it's because my hifi system isn't good enough. Or I used the wrong brand. Who knows.

For whatever reasons, here in the UK equipment is often supplied on a home loan, so there is no expectation bias. Not just from local dealers, also dealers who have to send by courier. I asked Lanedri for a loan, but he wouldn't do it. A sale and return would cost me 23% import duty and tax, plus shipping. The Muon guy said he didn't have loan items, then changed his mind, and I will take him up on the offer in a month or two, when it suits him.

 

[Geoffkait]

ssfas wrote, Fuses? An interesting product because there are so many lies and misinformation about them. Hardly surprising if you can take a $0.30 product, relabel it and sell if for $10,000. https://www.futureshop.co.uk/quantum-science-audio-gold-extreme-level-uk-mains-fuse

>>>>Actually that’s not a good example of audiophile fuses generally speaking since most are less than $50, even gold or silver fuses. This is what we call a logical fallacy. Anyone can come up with an extreme example, but that doesn’t prove anything. Just because you say there are so many lies and misinformation doesn’t make it true. Actually, you seem to be the source of lies and misinformation, if you don’t mind my saying so too much.

ssfas wrote, “I did try a couple, but I can't say they made a difference. Apparently it's because my hifi system isn't good enough. Or I used the wrong brand. Who knows.”

>>>>>There are many reasons why audiophiles sometimes don’t get good results with audio tweaks, cables, speakers, amplifiers, etc. Some of the reasons are,

- the system is not sufficiently resolving
- the listener‘s hearing is not all he reports it to be
- there are errors in the system
- instructions were not followed, e.g., directionality of the fuse.

Or the listener psychs himself out. Who knows?

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
We do Artificial Atoms Right

 

[Geoffkait]

I find it bizarre that you would say this. Those who try to extract the most from the money they spent because they find that doing so has increased their musical enjoyment are just being smart. Alternatively, if they don’t care to spend anymore because they are happy with the way things are, they are also being smart. What’s ridiculous though is obsessing over a product one believes to have provided them with no benefit.

I actually just looked up that famous line from Shakespeare about protesting too much and got a kick out of what I found in Wikipedia:

“The phrase is used in everyday speech to indicate doubt of someone's sincerity, especially regarding the truth of a strong denial.”

That is spot on, methinks.

There’s another famous Shakespeare line that seems apropos, “Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look.”