Audiophile Fuses

[ssfas]

Fuses divide opinion for sure, i would never have believed they could make such a difference until I heard for myself. I find all tweaks like this quite therapeutic and very enjoyable to engage in, it helps mental health and although it can make you a bit neurotic at times it’s not hurting anyone. For many years I fostered young vulnerable children, babies that had fetal alcohol syndrome, others that were addicted to heroine or other substances, Police stating that they would be surprised if they survived another week. I saw a level of society I never knew existed, the lowest depths of human existence and what was done to some children I still live with now. The hobby of music, buying gear etc etc is a fantastic distraction for me and believe me when I say this and I say it from experience, you could be doing a whole lot worse things with your time, take a load off and relax Not aiming this at anyone in particular but just a general statement

That's a great post. It is perhaps unsurprising that music exists in almost all cultures, even the most remote, stretching back to the bible (and beyond, depending on what you believe). Reminds me of the concept of the Four Temperaments, that since the Greeks has linked the physical world, the corporeal and psychological and traversed into the world of music (Hindemith) and dance (Balanchine).

Much of the performance I see live does not work through a stereo system, so I am keenly aware of the limitations of stereo, don't suffer from FOMO, am almost always happy with my stereo and sound systems and pleasantly surprised when improvements are made.

Tonight's show is no exception, by one of the world's leading contemporary choreographers (Wayne Macgregor), the man is a complete genius and rarely does anything uninteresting. The last thing that missed was a collaboration with Steve Reich for his 80th birthday called Multiverse, although the music has its merits.

Steve Reich: Runner — Music for Ensemble and Orchestra - Steve Reich Composer

Steve Reich Runner — Music for Ensemble and Orchestra

stevereich.com

Steve Reich is one of my favourite composers and is extremely therapeutic. Anyway, tonight's show is partly created by AI on MacGregor's archive and also uses his own DNA as program data.

Company Wayne McGregor - Autobiography - Sadler's Wells Theatre

Company Wayne McGregor - Autobiography - Sadler's Wells Theatre

www.sadlerswells.com

 

[highstream]

How about we get back on topic.

 

[highstream]

Hey man lighten up, I’m on here to learn and not feel like I’m having to side step subjects or particular things. You come across as being quite dismissive and if so please walk on by.

The suggestion to read the thread is not a bad one. Lots of good information there. At the same time, one of the things you’ll see is that fuse naysayers and people who can’t hear the difference for whatever reason like to announce themselves and more, side tracking the discussion and filling our inboxes along the way. They need to be shooed away.

 

[Beckola66]

The suggestion to read the thread is not a bad one. Lots of good information there. At the same time, one of the things you’ll see is that fuse naysayers and people who can’t hear the difference for whatever reason like to announce themselves and more, side tracking the discussion and filling our inboxes along the way. They need to be shooed away.

I’ve deleted my comment, easy to misread when you’re up a mountain in blazing sun and drinking Spanish beer

 

[Geoffkait]

@Beckola66 is in the very good position of having the fuses and being able to compare to $0.50 fuses. As his expectation bias is likely to be very low, and the cost will be almost nothing, his experience will be illuminating!

I do have some audiophile fuses. Different metal caps and cryo are very common fuse treatments.

Why do you think his or anyone’s expectation bias would be very low? And do you mean his expectation would be that fancy fuses would be better than stock fuses or that they would be about the same? One wonders why it always seems to be skeptics who raise the issue of psychological issues?

You wrote, “Different metal caps and cryo are very common fuse treatments.”

>>>>The sky is blue.

 

[ssfas]

Why do you think his or anyone’s expectation bias would be very low? And do you mean his expectation would be that fancy fuses would be better than stock fuses or that they would be about the same? One wonders why it always seems to be skeptics who raise the issue of psychological issues?

You wrote, “Different metal caps and cryo are very common fuse treatments.”

>>>>The sky is blue.

I assume that when someone has spent a significant (to them) amount of money on a product they have an expectation that it will make their audio system sound better. I include myself in this.

@Beckola66 can compare his audiophile fuses with, say, Bussmann, at negligible cost - less than a bottle of fine Spanish beer - so he won't have any financially derived expectation bias.

I avoid expectation bias by, almost always, arranging a home loan or dealer demo. I'm quite firm about this, for my DAC I'd arranged a 3-day trip to the distributor in Amsterdam. But when I hear something that rocks my boat, I'll make a quick decision. My largest expense, my speakers, took me 45 minutes.

Expectation bias can also come from reading reviews and other people's opinions, or people saying you must use X brand fuses. I'm very good at ignoring those. In my profession, where I have to form an independent opinion and get grilled on it in Court, I have to be immune to outside influences.

Even at the theatre. On Saturday night we were watching the New York City Ballet. Sarah Mearns was dancing. She's one of the big stars of American ballet. She had received excellent reviews. At the interval the chap next to me said how wonderful she was. I told him I thought she was awful, almost unwatchable. Later it turned out she had food poising and apologised online for her performance. The chap next to me clearly had expectation bias.

If everyone said every product was beneficial, where would we be? I work on the premise that most people can make up their own minds and put aside the bias of how many people think something is or is not beneficial. I am not naturally sceptical. I try to be informed. If a manufacturer says fuses heat up and increase in resistance, I will check it out. That's just me. The data is online. How many people bother to check?

I was considering potentially upgrading the fuse on my new phono power supply. It's the output fuse, 0.23A. These low current fuses are more sensitive. I found out the motor draws 16w, which at 230v is 0.06A, so about 30% of the rated load. I'd rather not risk the motor with an inaccurate fuse. Probably won't bother.

 

[highstream]

A politely phrased common trollers’ assumption. Of course, the *hope* is that whatever is purchased will offer an improvement, price aside. The used market and returns from audition show that hope is often not realized, or standards of hope change. Those that can’t be honest with themselves based on listening are in the wrong hobby,

 

[Geoffkait]

ssfas wrote, “Expectation bias can also come from reading reviews and other people's opinions, or people saying you must use X brand fuses. I'm very good at ignoring those. In my profession, where I have to form an independent opinion and get grilled on it in Court, I have to be immune to outside influences.“

>>>>Logical fallacy #1 - No one says you must use X brand fuses that I ever heard. Even the audiophile fuse companies don’t say that. PT Barnum was fond of saying people would generally be much better off if they believed in too much rather than too little.

ssfas wrote, “Even at the theatre. On Saturday night we were watching the New York City Ballet. Sarah Mearns was dancing. She's one of the big stars of American ballet. She had received excellent reviews. At the interval the chap next to me said how wonderful she was. I told him I thought she was awful, almost unwatchable. Later it turned out she had food poising and apologised online for her performance. The chap next to me clearly had expectation bias.”

>>>>Logical fallacy #2 - Aside from the fact that your ballet experience is highly anecdotal I doubt that’s a very good example of expectation bias. It’s probably just a case of differing tastes or opinions or preferences. Your conclusion is based on knowing the operation of the other guy’s mind. Maybe the other guy was intoxicated, who knows? In my opinion, the ballet analogy doesn’t really work for fuses or any audiophile component or device. Furthermore. In order to have credibility a test must be repeatable and transferrable. Which you obviously can’t do for the ballet example.

 

[kennyb123]

Logical fallacy #1

Some food for thought….

A Canadian researcher found that internet trolls have the highest “Dark Tetrad” scores. This assess personality traits including narcissism, psychopathy, and sadism.

Further from an article on Medium: “narcissist are unable to develop sound arguments, aren’t aware of logical fallacies, and have no concern over whether they are being consistent in what information they use to support their position. While others genuinely want to resolve problems with others in a positive manner on both sides, a narcissist wants to win, control, and get what they want…”

Most people, when they quote others on forums such as this, will actually attempt to address the actual argument that they quoted. A narcissist would feel no compunction to do so. Something to keep an eye on if one wants to better recognize what’s at play.

Lastly, the studies generally confirm that “don’t feed the trolls” is great advice.

 

[ssfas]

>>>>Logical fallacy #2 - Aside from the fact that your ballet experience is highly anecdotal I doubt that’s a very good example of expectation bias. It’s probably just a case of differing tastes or opinions or preferences. Your conclusion is based on knowing the operation of the other guy’s mind. Maybe the other guy was intoxicated, who knows? In my opinion, the ballet analogy doesn’t really work for fuses or any audiophile component or device. Furthermore. In order to have credibility a test must be repeatable and transferrable. Which you obviously can’t do for the ballet example.

Never read such excuses. All comment on live artistic performance is anecdotal. Never noticed an instrumentalist playing out of tune or having a memory lapse? Dance is no different. My wife was a dancer (first in Europe, then the USA with Merce Cunningham and Martha Graham), I've been going to ballet and contemporary dance regularly for over 40 years. I can tell when a dancer is having a bad night, making errors, unfit, lacking confidence etc. Most regulars can. You get "tourists" at shows like NYCB, a big company visiting from overseas. People think these big names always dance like angels. Sadly untrue. You can spot the tourists a mile off. Anyway, he told me so. Plus you don't get drunks at the ballet.

Live shows aren't a double-blind test, they are unique experiences, thankfully. And if they're no good, like a play we saw last week, it's only $100 and a few hours of your life.

Thankfully tonight's show was a million times better, purely anecdotally of course, looking forward to Part 2 of the programme on Friday.

I read forums to get other people's views, this forum specifically in relation to the Garrard 301, a project with the objective being the Artisan Fidelity 301 Statement level, but on a slightly different budget.

 

[kennyb123]

I've been going to ballet and contemporary dance regularly for over 40 years. I can tell when a dancer is having a bad night, making errors, unfit, lacking confidence etc. Most regulars can. You get "tourists" at shows like NYCB, a big company visiting from overseas. People think these big names always dance like angels. Sadly untrue. You can spot the tourists a mile off. Anyway, he told me so. Plus you don't get drunks at the ballet.

He had argued that “the ballet analogy doesn’t really work for fuses or any audiophile component.” You obviously didn’t mean to actually offer a counter argument. Kind of hilarious though that you gave a response that only bolstered his argument.

It was most certainly not logical to conclude that the chap who perceived of the dancer as being wonderful did so because of expectation bias. There could be a number of things he saw in her performance that could have had him react that way. More likely he was just being carried away by his emotions and honestly believed what he witnessed was wonderful. It was you who exhibited the expectation bias. You expected the chap to also see the same problems you saw so you were left concluding that there was no way that he could have actually fairly perceived of it as he did. Your bias caused you to eliminate the more charitable explanations for why he might have come away with an opinion that differed from yours. This is actually analogous to how you approach the topic of fuses. Not having an explanation for why fuses can make a difference is forcing you to have to hear exactly that, but you can only imagine that it’s every one else who can’t possibly be perceiving what they claim to be perceiving.

 

[highstream]

He had argued that “the ballet analogy doesn’t really work for fuses or any audiophile component.” You obviously didn’t mean to actually offer a counter argument. Kind of hilarious though that you gave a response that only bolstered his argument.

It was most certainly not logical to conclude that the chap who perceived of the dancer as being wonderful did so because of expectation bias. There could be a number of things he saw in her performance that could have had him react that way. More likely he was just being carried away by his emotions and honestly believed what he witnessed was wonderful. It was you who exhibited the expectation bias. You expected the chap to also see the same problems you saw so you were left concluding that there was no way that he could have actually fairly perceived of it as he did. Your bias caused you to eliminate the more charitable explanations for why he might have come away with an opinion that differed from yours. This is actually analogous to how you approach the topic of fuses. Not having an explanation for why fuses can make a difference is forcing you to have to hear exactly that, but you can only imagine that it’s every one else who can’t possibly be perceiving what they claim to be perceiving.

A kind of expectation bias is commonly present in audiences. It's often an upbeat personality thing. Other times it's just ignorance, that is, in the sense of not knowing enough to evaluate critically. I'm just not sure what the example has to do with the vast majority of audio cases.

Now, can we get back on subject, please?

 

[ssfas]

He had argued that “the ballet analogy doesn’t really work for fuses or any audiophile component.” You obviously didn’t mean to actually offer a counter argument. Kind of hilarious though that you gave a response that only bolstered his argument.

It was most certainly not logical to conclude that the chap who perceived of the dancer as being wonderful did so because of expectation bias. There could be a number of things he saw in her performance that could have had him react that way. More likely he was just being carried away by his emotions and honestly believed what he witnessed was wonderful. It was you who exhibited the expectation bias. You expected the chap to also see the same problems you saw so you were left concluding that there was no way that he could have actually fairly perceived of it as he did. Your bias caused you to eliminate the more charitable explanations for why he might have come away with an opinion that differed from yours. This is actually analogous to how you approach the topic of fuses. Not having an explanation for why fuses can make a difference is forcing you to have to hear exactly that, but you can only imagine that it’s every one else who can’t possibly be perceiving what they claim to be perceiving.

I must truly congratulate you on tying your brain in knots to come up with that.

I was not biased. The woman could barely dance. You could see her core stomach strength was not there and she couldn't jump properly and almost got dropped. She was dancing a well known piece (Stravinsky/Balanchine) that has been in the repertory for 50 years. On exiting my wife saw her throwing up in the street by the stage door. She went online and publicly apologised for her performance.

Only once in 40 years have I ever known a public apology by a performer, when Francesca Hayward cocked up her first Odette/Odile, which is like dropping the winning touchdown in the Super Bowl. She went into a deep depression and couldn't dance for 3 months.

Your fuse theory is also miles off the mark. I tried (by purchasing) Synergistic Research for my streamer about 3 years ago. It was half price, so what the hell. I couldn't hear a difference. I'm still using the fuse. My dealer also gave me some AMR fuses for power cables around the same time, also no audible difference. I threw them away when I sold the cables as the fuses were not legal. I only looked into fuse design about a year ago when my local accessories dealer (Futureshop) became the exclusive retailer of QSA fuses and they tried to sell me some. They are pushing them hard and have QSA on their front page. They are relabelled Bussmann fuses and illegal. I've stopped buying from them. https://www.futureshop.co.uk/

 

[highstream]

I must truly congratulate you on tying your brain in knots to come up with that.

I was not biased. The woman could barely dance. You could see her core stomach strength was not there and she couldn't jump properly and almost got dropped. She was dancing a well known piece (Stravinsky/Balanchine) that has been in the repertory for 50 years. On exiting my wife saw her throwing up in the street by the stage door. She went online and publicly apologised for her performance.

Only once in 40 years have I ever known a public apology by a performer, when Francesca Hayward cocked up her first Odette/Odile, which is like dropping the winning touchdown in the Super Bowl. She went into a deep depression and couldn't dance for 3 months.

Your fuse theory is also miles off the mark. I tried (by purchasing) Synergistic Research for my streamer about 3 years ago. It was half price, so what the hell. I couldn't hear a difference. I'm still using the fuse. My dealer also gave me some AMR fuses for power cables around the same time, also no audible difference. I threw them away when I sold the cables as the fuses were not legal. I only looked into fuse design about a year ago when my local accessories dealer (Futureshop) became the exclusive retailer of QSA fuses and they tried to sell me some. They are pushing them hard and have QSA on their front page. They are relabelled Bussmann fuses and illegal. I've stopped buying from them. https://www.futureshop.co.uk/

Please go away. This thread is not for you.

 

[kennyb123]

The woman could barely dance. You could see her core stomach strength was not there and she couldn't jump properly and almost got dropped. She was dancing a well known piece (Stravinsky/Balanchine) that has been in the repertory for 50 years. On exiting my wife saw her throwing up in the street by the stage door. She went online and publicly apologised for her performance.

Quite an imagination you have there.

 

[Geoffkait]

All comment)s) on live artistic performance is (are) anecdotal.

Eggs ackley! That’s one reason why your ballet analogy doesn’t work, since audiophiles can A/B fuses to their hearts content. It’s also a logical fallacy to pretend it was you who made the observation.

ssfas also wrote,

”My wife was a dancer (first in Europe, then the USA with Merce Cunningham and Martha Graham), I've been going to ballet and contemporary dance regularly for over 40 years. I can tell when a dancer is having a bad night, making errors, unfit, lacking confidence etc.

>>>I trust you’ll forgive me for making an example of your comment, which is a well-known logical fallacy - Appeal to Authority of the first kind - a person uses his experience and knowledge in one field of study to claim victory in a debate on an unrelated subject.

A similar Appeal to Authority would be when an audiophile opens up his commentary with, “I‘ve been in this hobby for over 40 years so I can tell you I’m absolutely right when I say…”

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Eggs ackley! That’s one reason why your ballet analogy doesn’t work, since audiophiles can A/B fuses to their hearts content. It’s also a logical fallacy to pretend it was you who made the observation.

ssfas also wrote,

”My wife was a dancer (first in Europe, then the USA with Merce Cunningham and Martha Graham), I've been going to ballet and contemporary dance regularly for over 40 years. I can tell when a dancer is having a bad night, making errors, unfit, lacking confidence etc.

>>>I trust you’ll forgive me for making an example of your comment, which is a well-known logical fallacy - Appeal to Authority of the first kind - a person uses his experience and knowledge in one field of study to claim victory in a debate on an unrelated subject.

A similar Appeal to Authority would be when an audiophile opens up his commentary with, “I‘ve been in this hobby for over 40 years so I can tell you I’m absolutely right when I say…”

Best to ignore this boorish troll, the sod will eventually dry up and just go away.

 

[Geoffkait]

I don’t like to use the word troll, quite the contrary, I think a lot can be learned in any discussion.

 

[treitz3]

Hello and good afternoon, gentlemen. There are many subscribers to this thread that want to click onto the thread and read about fuses.

Moving forward, if your post is not on topic? It will be deleted. If off topic posts continue, administrative action will take place.

Please stay on the topic of fuses and nothing else. Consider this a formal warning to anyone who posts anything else off topic. Thank you for your cooperation.

If anyone sees an off topic post, please report it and we will deal with it. Thanks.

Tom

 

[Republicoftexas69]

So are audiophile fuses really directional? My experiences have been limited and I found them to be marginal improvements compared to cables, room treatments and speaker positioning. I did find that the Swiss Digital Fuse Box made a greater impact sound wise than fuses in my systems. Yet I am not saying they cannot make a difference. YMMV.