... baby steps in digital setup

[skinnyfla]

... so, I have not put much love into my digital setup. At one point I decided to rip all my CDs and just stream them from my PC, as I play vinyl 80-90% of the time. I ended up buying Roon, used a PC that was already there (iMac), used a simple CD transport by Samsung, bought dBPoweramp and ripped all CDs to perfect rip as WAV, now using the iMac (+ internal storage) as Roon Core and Server, the files are sent through my local network (simple router and CAT 7 ethernet, nothing special) via ethernet to the music room and from there to an Auralic Aries G1 and then to my DAC...

... I then also started using streaming services like Qobuz and Tidal... still not much love for digital...

... now I`m coming to a point where I have finished my analog setup and also I have to admit, that some masterings sound better on digital and some stuff is also only available as digital (no vinyl release) - so there`s a need for better digital.

First I got a switch between my router and my Auralic, that improved the streaming.

As for playing locally stored files, I tried something very very simple - i bought an external T7 SSD hard drive storage by Samsung, transfered all my WAV files from the mac to the SSD and hooked the SSD straight to the Auralic via USB, now using the Lightning Software by Auralic and not Roon and not sending the files through the local ethernet... it sounds noticeably different - more relaxed, less sharp, cleaner... don`t know how to put it...

... anyhow, this brings me to the point where I have to admit that also for locally stored files (my go - to solution, as I ALWAYS buy music I like) small things seem to make a difference - now I have to sort out, what these things are... server, streamer, DAC, connection between DAC and streamer... etc... interested in peoples advice and experience - AGAIN, streaming is not my primary concern, but playing local files... is going back to a CDP the easy way out for good quality, can ripped CDs sound as good and where do you store them (I would suppose an Antipodes - which is on my list - also uses normal Samsung or other SSDs for storage, so that can`t be the big difference) etc...

 

[Synaxis]

... so, I have not put much love into my digital setup. At one point I decided to rip all my CDs and just stream them from my PC, as I play vinyl 80-90% of the time. I ended up buying Roon, used a PC that was already there (iMac), used a simple CD transport by Samsung, bought dBPoweramp and ripped all CDs to perfect rip as WAV, using the iMach (+ internal storage) as Roon Core and Server) the files were sent througj my local network (simple router, nothing special) via Ethernet to the music room and from there to an Auralic Aries G1 and then to my DAC...

... I then also started using streaming services like Qobuz and Tidal... still not much love for digital...

... now I`m coming to a point where I have finished my analog setup and also I have to admit, that some masterings sound better on digital and some stuff is also only available as digital (no vinyl release).

Fist I got a switch between my router and my Auralic, that improved the streaming.

As for playing locally stored files, I tried something very very simple - i bought an external T7 SSD storag by Samsung, placed all my WAV files on it and hooked it straight to the Auralic via USB, now using the Lightning software and not Roon and not sending the files through the local Ethernet... it sounds noticably different - more relaxed, less sharp, cleaner... don`t know how to put it...

... anyhow, this brings me to the point where I have to admit that also for locally stored files (my go - to solution, as I ALWAYS buy music I like) small things seem to make a big difference - now I have to sort out, what thees things are... server, streamer, DAC, connection between DAC and streamer... etc... interested in peoples advice and experience - AGAIN, streaming is not my primary concern, but playing local files... is going back to a CDP the easy way for good quality, can ripped CDs sound as good and where do you store them (I would suppose an Antipodes - which is on my list - also uses normal Samsung or other SSDs for storage, so that can`t be the big difference) etc...

Although I run a very expensive Telegartner M12 Premium switch and absolutely love it, I also did several videos on experimenting with 10+ switches I bought from Amazon priced between $27 and $150.

After testing dozens of them individually and in mixed combos, I found a trifecta of three models linked with a Blue Jeans cable where it comes out of the wall, then a 5 meter BJC run to my expensive switch and expensive cables from there that is absolutely fantastic.

I then added a $199 old AQ power conditioner I had laying around for the cheap switches to plug in and it was a more notable improvement vs. changing the power supplies on the cheap switches.

All in it's like $300 and if you don't like it you can return it all to Amazon.

I can look up my old video and the the model numbers if you'd like. I do a lot of hifi experimenting with tweaks for fun.

I personally would never run my digital set up without the trifecta of switches before my "good" digital set up.

 

[ssfas]

I would think about accessing your files over the network rather than usb. This involves possibly getting a switch with an SFP connection (€100) and connect it to you modem or router,, a media converter (€30) with an iFi power supply (€70) for the streaming end. Then get a network storage device and connect it to the switch. There are lots of network storage devices available from Amazon.

If that works, the G1 is a little long in the tooth and could be upgraded.

I use BJC Ethernet cables throughout. Fibre cable is dirt cheap.

A good network set-up is really cheap and easy with a little planning, the only cost is really the network storage.

I have a managed switch that isolates the music system from all other traffic using a VLAN. It only costs about €300 more, but you need someone to set it up.

 

[skinnyfla]

... thanks, is it not better to avoid sending the files through the local network and having the files sored/served as close as possible to the player? So a CD transport straight into the DAC and/or a ripped CD straight from server/storage into the player or DAC? I thought ethernet and all noise / jitter produced in it is the enemy of all good sound... why bother going through all the hassle of optimizing the local network when you can just serve the files directly without having to send them through the local network/ethernet??? Trying to understand this part - I rally can`t make sense of it. As far as I understand, that`s also the approach Antipodes takes, being a storage/server/player all in one and avoiding having to have the files stored somewhere else and sending them through the local network... ?

Cheers

 

[ssfas]

... thanks, is it not better to avoid sending the files through the local network and having the files sored/served as close as possible to the player? So a CD transport straight into the DAC and/or a ripped CD straight from server/storage into the player or DAC? I thought ethernet and all noise / jitter produced in it is the enemy of all good sound... why bother going through all the hassle of optimizing the local network when you can just serve the files directly without having to send them through the local network/ethernet??? Trying to understand this part - I rally can`t make sense of it. As far as I understand, that`s also the approach Antipodes takes, being a storage/server/player all in one and avoiding having to have the files stored somewhere else and sending them through the local network... ?

Cheers

It is generally considered far better to store files on the network, especially if you are using a fibre rather than a copper connection, than connecting a noisy USB device connected with a wire that carries 5 V power. USB is easy, but it’s really not recommended. There are plenty of companies making high-quality streamers who have always refused to enable USB data input connections, this was the case with my first streamer from Linn and the Innuos streamers that I’ve been using since 2016.

This is the kind of device. Dead easy to set up.

WD 8TB My Cloud Home Personal Cloud​

 

[OZ996]

Although I run a very expensive Telegartner M12 Premium switch and absolutely love it, I also did several videos on experimenting with 10+ switches I bought from Amazon priced between $27 and $150.

After testing dozens of them individually and in mixed combos, I found a trifecta of three models linked with a Blue Jeans cable where it comes out of the wall, then a 5 meter BJC run to my expensive switch and expensive cables from there that is absolutely fantastic.

I then added a $199 old AQ power conditioner I had laying around for the cheap switches to plug in and it was a more notable improvement vs. changing the power supplies on the cheap switches.

All in it's like $300 and if you don't like it you can return it all to Amazon.

I can look up my old video and the the model numbers if you'd like. I do a lot of hifi experimenting with tweaks for fun.

I personally would never run my digital set up without the trifecta of switches before my "good" digital set up.

Just out of curiosity, do you mean you put three Telegartner M12 Premium switch linked sequencially? Thanks.

 

[Kingrex]

Although I run a very expensive Telegartner M12 Premium switch and absolutely love it, I also did several videos on experimenting with 10+ switches I bought from Amazon priced between $27 and $150.

After testing dozens of them individually and in mixed combos, I found a trifecta of three models linked with a Blue Jeans cable where it comes out of the wall, then a 5 meter BJC run to my expensive switch and expensive cables from there that is absolutely fantastic.

I then added a $199 old AQ power conditioner I had laying around for the cheap switches to plug in and it was a more notable improvement vs. changing the power supplies on the cheap switches.

All in it's like $300 and if you don't like it you can return it all to Amazon.

I can look up my old video and the the model numbers if you'd like. I do a lot of hifi experimenting with tweaks for fun.

I personally would never run my digital set up without the trifecta of switches before my "good" digital set up.

What switches do you use. I need some for my new house.

 

[Synaxis]

Just out of curiosity, do you mean you put three Telegartner M12 Premium switch linked sequencially? Thanks.

Hi Oz -

Just one actual Telegartner placed close to the system and running Stealth Audio Cable from there. The three "cheap" ones are by the wall about 4-5M away where the ethernet connection is.

 

[Synaxis]

What switches do you use. I need some for my new house.

Hi Kingrex,

I had to check my notes from the experiment as it was a year ago or so.

Afer testing 15 different switches and dozens of configurations, in my system (YMMV) I found the best to be three D-links, but two different models to sound the best. If I did three of the same model D-Link it was too bright so these canceled each other.

I also found the 5 ports to always sound inferior to all the 8 ports. They all required at least 100 hours burn in to sound their best. I also tried using different ports to see if any sounded better being further away from the input cable.

-- I use TWO of these switches: https://amzn.to/3RehXtP
-- I also have the two small D-Links plugged into this unit - it helps tame the brightness that will happen using just two of the smaller D-Links without this one: https://amzn.to/3Dnrbyo
- I have them all plugged into this cheap AudioQuest poser conditioner which was a huge improvement in sound: https://amzn.to/3HB5Hzt

Happy to answer any other questions you may have.

I found the BJC from Amazon to be the best sounding budget cable I use between the cheap boxes and only start using nice cables (I used to run Siltech and now run STEALTH Audio Cables) starting at the Telegartner switch.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

It is generally considered far better to store files on the network, especially if you are using a fibre rather than a copper connection, than connecting a noisy USB device connected with a wire that carries 5 V power. USB is easy, but it’s really not recommended. There are plenty of companies making high-quality streamers who have always refused to enable USB data input connections, this was the case with my first streamer from Linn and the Innuos streamers that I’ve been using since 2016.

This is the kind of device. Dead easy to set up.

WD 8TB My Cloud Home Personal Cl​

I think fiber is the route to go. Cheers.

 

[Kingrex]

@Synaxis
Thanks. I have a Linear Soulution switch that is a D link with a hopped up power supply and chips as well as LPS to feed it. It does sound better plugged into my Torus. I want to try a switch in front of it. At least 1.
What about the Netgear. Did you try them.
I use Blue Jeans ethernet. They make good cables.

I'm going to need to string new ethernet to my new room. I might use Blue Jeans. Its hard to.run ethernet with terminated ends. Belden cable with RevConnext ends works well. Never tested one. But the wires are all very even in length.

 

[Synaxis]

@Synaxis
Thanks. I have a Linear Soulution switch that is a D link with a hopped up power supply and chips as well as LPS to feed it. It does sound better plugged into my Torus. I want to try a switch in front of it. At least 1.
What about the Netgear. Did you try them.
I use Blue Jeans ethernet. They make good cables.

I'm going to need to string new ethernet to my new room. I might use Blue Jeans. Its hard to.run ethernet with terminated ends. Belden cable with RevConnext ends works well. Never tested one. But the wires are all very even in length.

I did try the Netgear and in comparison to the D-Link it sounded brittle and hashy. I was surprised how poorly in my system the Netgear Sounded.

Trust me - even if you get 2 of the $30 D-links the difference is substantial. Or at least it was in my system. I was pretty surprised.

 

[Kingrex]

I bought 3. One for the house I am selling and 2 for the new house.

 

[ssfas]

I think fiber is the route to go. Cheers.

For the benefit of @skinnyfla , here's what I've ended up with, initially as a result of some advice from a member of another forum.
THERE ARE NO AUDIOPHILE PRODUCTS INVOLVED. DEFINITELY NOT A €5,000 SWITCH.

I have a controller installed that creates a network for music, that has only 2 IP's connected, my streamer and my music library. The other 84 IP's in the house are on another network, so none of their traffic gets bounced to the streaming system.

The controller is a Ubiquiti UXG Lite, costs about €120. It controls a Ubiquiti USW 24-PoE, costs about €300. These are managed devices. I bought mine from a supplier who sets them up before they are sent out and they can be configured remotely. The controller goes between the modem and the switch.

I have a QNAP TS-473, which happens to be Roon's recommended server. It runs Roon Server and plugs into the switch. A Roon Nucleus could be substituted.

The network store is a Buffalo, but any brand will do. Again, plugs into the switch.

I use a continuous power supply because of the server. A conditioner might help, I have an old one I got off eBay but never bothered.

Fibre goes from the switch to the hifi. It can be converted using a TPLink media converter or another fibre switch. One day all streamers will have a SFP fibre socket.

I don't use Roon on my main music system, I use Innuos Sense, so the QNAP is not on the Music network. QNAP machines can easily be configured to operate on more than one network at a time.

As to @skinnyfla question about where to put everything, it's probably easier to have this stuff in an office or somewhere other than next to the hifi. Mine is in a wall cavity.

 

[NigelB]

If a switch is (or switches are) going to do anything for sound quality, you need to install it/them as close as possible to your hifi. What they bring to the party is nothing to do with digital 1s and 0s (if it was, they could go anywhere) and everything to do with noise, and if you want maximum bang for buck you want it/them to do their magic just before the music starts...

 

[ssfas]

If a switch is (or switches are) going to do anything for sound quality, you need to install it/them as close as possible to your hifi. What they bring to the party is nothing to do with digital 1s and 0s (if it was, they could go anywhere) and everything to do with noise, and if you want maximum bang for buck you want it/them to do their magic just before the music starts...

I also use a switch just before the streamer, from Fidelity audio,, the little white box on the upper shelf. It is powered by a linear power supply, the black box with the blue light on the lower shelf. The media converter, also on the lower shelf is a standard TP link device, powered by the SoTM 9v battery on the shelf above.

The switch was a new addition in the last year and I’m not absolutely convinced that it adds anything, opposed to just running a cable from the media converter into the streamer.

 

[NigelB]

@ssfas The media converter will be doing most of the heavy lifting so all the switch is really doing here is killing any noise picked up along the short copper cable from there to the switch. I'm not wholly surprised its inclusion didn't appear to add much.

 

[ssfas]

@ssfas The media converter will be doing most of the heavy lifting so all the switch is really doing here is killing any noise picked up along the short copper cable from there to the switch. I'm not wholly surprised its inclusion didn't appear to add much.

It's a Cisco switch with an improved clock. It's long been considered that sticking a decent clock in front of the streamer has benefits. Just not for me. This is a very good clock, apparently, at a price worth giving it try.

The branded switches are more expensive and include a rather less impressive clock implant:

 

[NigelB]

It's a Cisco switch with an improved clock. It's long been considered that sticking a decent clock in front of the streamer has benefits. Just not for me. This is a very good clock, apparently, at a price worth giving it try.

The branded switches are more expensive and include a rather less impressive clock implant:

Not by me I’m afraid, as I’m on record as arguing… well, not because of anything to do with timing in the asynchronous buffered world we call ethernet and therefore not to do with “jitter” which means something entirely different here. Talk to me about clocks on or after the downstream side of the streamer and I’m in!
But if you’ve a combination of measures which work for you then hats off.

 

[tedwoods]

This looks interesting: https://www.silentpower.tech/products/lan-ipurifier-pro
What are your thoughts on something like that?