Babysitting a pair of Sonus Il Cremonese Ex3me

[Asa]

Thanks, Phil, for getting back. Yeah, I sure have a bias; its called, terminally picky!

Hmmmm, everything keeps circling back to the Strads...and thanks for the info on the Anniv Strads - that doesn't surprise me. And which is why I asked you about the ex3mes, because I didn't hear any of that. It's like someone walked into the SF facility in Italy and forcibly removed the guy who was voicing the tweeters. I saw your Jadis amp sitting there and knew you wouldn't stand for any of that. Made me curious.

On the Strads: you know, when owners say they always regret selling them, that's a sign. And I could run them with JA-80 MkIIs...

Or, I could save a while longer and go for the ex3mes, hide it all from my wife! Ah, the audio psychosis reels on...

Love your Jadis amp. I still remember my Defy - a huge pain to bias, but I had it all NOS tubed, had a master woodworker make a custom stand for it...I can still hear it playing in my mind. Have you rolled any of the inputs? And, if you don't mind, what pre are you using? The Jadis obviously likes it. Thanks again, Mark

Hi Phil. Just went and looked at your amp photos. To see them is to want one. Loved that one of the bottom popped open. So cool.

 

[jadis]

Love your Jadis amp. I still remember my Defy - a huge pain to bias, but I had it all NOS tubed, had a master woodworker make a custom stand for it...I can still hear it playing in my mind. Have you rolled any of the inputs? And, if you don't mind, what pre are you using? The Jadis obviously likes it. Thanks again, Mark

Yes, Mark. I've been a NOS tube roller since the 90s. And for this Jadis amp, I chose 2 pairs of Brimar Milspec 4003s and a pair of Telefunken ECC83.

 

[jadis]

And, if you don't mind, what pre are you using? The Jadis obviously likes it. Thanks again, Mark

And my preamp is relatively new, arrived July of last years. VAC Signature with phono stage inside. I posted it here:

My Listening Room

The latest addition to my listening room is literally a 'heaven sent' full function preamp from VAC - the Signature Triode MKII. According to the manual, burn in period is 150 hours and I have probably reached 120 hours and the transformation from first hour to know is quite startling and...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[jadis]

Thanks, Phil, for getting back. Yeah, I sure have a bias; its called, terminally picky!

Hmmmm, everything keeps circling back to the Strads...and thanks for the info on the Anniv Strads - that doesn't surprise me. And which is why I asked you about the ex3mes, because I didn't hear any of that. It's like someone walked into the SF facility in Italy and forcibly removed the guy who was voicing the tweeters. I saw your Jadis amp sitting there and knew you wouldn't stand for any of that. Made me curious.

On the Strads: you know, when owners say they always regret selling them, that's a sign. And I could run them with JA-80 MkIIs...

Or, I could save a while longer and go for the ex3mes, hide it all from my wife! Ah, the audio psychosis reels on...

It's very common for Sonus lovers to stick with the brand forever and ever. I have a few friends like that. I've been enamored with the original Electa Amator since the late 80s but somehow never got to buy them because of the urge to go 'big' and full range.

 

[Asa]

Cool logos on the Brimars...and only a tube rolling geek would say that, right? I have a 35yr old tube stash and don't even remember everything in there. On the 12AU7 equivalents, I lucked into a matched pair of NOS orig Genelex B749s some yrs back, truly transformed my AirTight amp. Up til then, I had been thinking about selling it; very dynamic for 8W SET, nice transformers, but still a bit strident here and there. The Genalex's solved all that. 10,000 hr life span ain't bad either. On the 12AX7's: many designers seem to hate the tube, but, as a listener, I don't know what they are all talking about. I have a Joule Electra pre and use a 1958 Mullard goal-post getter f91-marked tube...still have a few pairs of the 1956 MC1s, but never quite warmed up to them. I saw somebody, somewhere, refer to the f91's as akin to a warm fire in a London pub (perhaps, but that's OK with me. I'm 60 now, but when I was in my 20's I spent many nights in a London pub savoring Guinness pints...I'd only add that a peat fire is best). I'm still looking for a Genalex B759 for that pre spot, haven't seen many the last year...should have bought one at $1250, I suppose, when I had the chance. Crazy prices these days...

Here's my B749 story: I'm meandering around and pull up Audiogon and someone has just posted an NOS orig matched pr, orig boxes, at...$450. That has to be wrong, right? It turns out they were owned by a wealthy Italian tube amp designer. I tried to tell him they were worth a lot more - I actually felt bad - but he didn't care, too wealthy to think about such things. He was just glad someone was buying them who knew what they were... really nice guy, good karma all around.

And your pre?

 

[Asa]

Sorry, just saw your pre post. The VAC, yes, that would sound nice.

 

[jadis]

Cool logos on the Brimars...and only a tube rolling geek would say that, right? I have a 35yr old tube stash and don't even remember everything in there. On the 12AU7 equivalents, I lucked into a matched pair of NOS orig Genelex B749s some yrs back, truly transformed my AirTight amp. Up til then, I had been thinking about selling it; very dynamic for 8W SET, nice transformers, but still a bit strident here and there. The Genalex's solved all that. 10,000 hr life span ain't bad either. On the 12AX7's: many designers seem to hate the tube, but, as a listener, I don't know what they are all talking about. I have a Joule Electra pre and use a 1958 Mullard goal-post getter f91-marked tube...still have a few pairs of the 1956 MC1s, but never quite warmed up to them. I saw somebody, somewhere, refer to the f91's as akin to a warm fire in a London pub (perhaps, but that's OK with me. I'm 60 now, but when I was in my 20's I spent many nights in a London pub savoring Guinness pints...I'd only add that a peat fire is best). I'm still looking for a Genalex B759 for that pre spot, haven't seen many the last year...should have bought one at $1250, I suppose, when I had the chance. Crazy prices these days...

Here's my B749 story: I'm meandering around and pull up Audiogon and someone has just posted an NOS orig matched pr, orig boxes, at...$450. That has to be wrong, right? It turns out they were owned by a wealthy Italian tube amp designer. I tried to tell him they were worth a lot more - I actually felt bad - but he didn't care, too wealthy to think about such things. He was just glad someone was buying them who knew what they were... really nice guy, good karma all around.

And your pre?

It's been a dream to own even 1 pc of B759. I never got to buy 1 all these years. $450 is pretty cheap. I have a great NOS pair of MC1 ECC83 and 82s with original boxes. Some F91 and 92s halo getters. I like them both, just a matter of matching to your tastes.

For pre, I rolled the 3 pairs of phono tubes with 1952 Brimars, Telefunkens, MC1s or F92s. The line stage, I roll between a pair of Valvo Holland E188CC and Mullard 2492s. Lovely, smooth sound.

 

[Asa]

Yes, it's quite like making a French sauce well. System construction is an art. B759 = 12AX7; my B749 = 12AU7. The 759s are rarer, more sought after, more applicable to more circuits. The matched B749s in my amp would run $2500+ these days, if you could find them.

VAC pre into Jadis amp into...I'm not sure how you avoided the ex3mes. That would haunt me.

Sorry, jadis, to bug you so much, but I'm intrigued by your system progression. It educates me. Your IC and speaker cables?

 

[jadis]

Yes, it's quite like making a French sauce well. System construction is an art. B759 = 12AX7; my B749 = 12AU7. The 759s are rarer, more sought after, more applicable to more circuits. The matched B749s in my amp would run $2500+ these days, if you could find them.

VAC pre into Jadis amp into...I'm not sure how you avoided the ex3mes. That would haunt me.

Sorry, jadis, to bug you so much, but I'm intrigued by your system progression. It educates me. Your IC and speaker cables?

No problem bugging me, Mark. My ICs are 7.5m long Nordost Blue Heavens, clear without being too 'etched' and has a nice open soundstage. Speaker cables are the Apogee marketed Symo of Switzerland. A friend told me about their 'fit' for the ribbon Magnepans, and I have used then since 1999, no looking back. Front end is the latest Linn Akurate LP12 with Lingo 4 PS and Linn Akito 3b tonearm (they sell it as a package) and the cartridge is a Koetsu Urushi Tsugaru. Shall I say my system is 'mid-centric'. LOL

 

[mullard88]

Your description of the owner sounds familiar to me. I just don't recall him having a pair of Amatis. I am wondering if the owner is the friend who got me to buy the other pair of Guarneris when they were introduced here?

 

[jadis]

Your description of the owner sounds familiar to me. I just don't recall him having a pair of Amatis. I am wondering if the owner is the friend who got me to buy the other pair of Guarneris when they were introduced here?

Not quite. As the owner of the original Strad never had a pair of Guarneris but had Extremas and Amatis. Our friend who owned Guarneris before is the owner of this Il Cremonese eX3me anniversary.

 

[Asa]

Hi Phil. Symo, sure I remember that. Nice cable, remember all the Apogee guys went that way. Isn't it nice to get a spkr cable that works and stop thinking about that? I have the same sort of situation. I had Omega Micro's for years - the copper ribbons with mesh covering - but let them go when I simplified and got tired or the battery boxes, et al. I've run Kondo copper for quite a while now. I've been tempted by more expensive wire, but ithe Kondo is very nice - open, open to being warm, harmonically complex, when called on - so I've stayed with it. I like the approach of open spkr cables and harmonically complex ICs. I look at system construction as akin to bringing together a nice sauce; complex and simple all at once...hard to explain if you don't already hear it. I don't know much about Nordost the last 10 yrs...I was a reviewer many moons ago and Joe R. was nice enough to send me a loom of SPM - the purple stuff - and, unfortunately, I found it thin; harmonically denuded, space not dimensional or pressurized, but more of a void spotlighting sound sources within it; a spatial/source imbalance. Joe was so nice I never said a thing about it. I gather they have addressed a lot of that since then. I saw they grabbed the Electroclear tech and incorp'd it in their conditioners, so they must hearing something.

On the SF Cremonese: went back and looked at some reviews. Tellingly, a reveiwer, a fmr Shindo guy, raved and raved...then ended by saying the tweeter was intense. Same thing with a reviewer at Soundstage with the newest 2-driver floor stander Maxima Elector, raved then ended off, at the end, saying the tweeter ain't shy.

Once this plague passes sufficiently I'll head out and hear for myself, but I remember 4-5 yrs ago I heard both the Cremonese (standard) and Aida at AXPONA. The Crem was in a too-small room, but you can still hear a tweeter. I remember thinking it was trying too hard to sell; trying too hard to be exciting, especially up top. I don't hold spkrs to too much from a show, but the memory is coming back to me. And, again, that is why I asked you about the ex3mes' because I didn't hear any of that. And you - a listener with nice VAC ahead of Jadis - didn't hear it either.

Not sure what to do. But I have a year to figure it out. I think that I'm backing off the standard Cremonese. I could try to balance the tweeter energy - I've got an early series I NBS Pro that would most likely do the trick - but that becomes a trap at some point.

We'll see. Thanks again for your help. Mark

 

[jadis]

Hi Phil. Symo, sure I remember that. Nice cable, remember all the Apogee guys went that way. Isn't it nice to get a spkr cable that works and stop thinking about that? I have the same sort of situation. I had Omega Micro's for years - the copper ribbons with mesh covering - but let them go when I simplified and got tired or the battery boxes, et al. I've run Kondo copper for quite a while now. I've been tempted by more expensive wire, but ithe Kondo is very nice - open, open to being warm, harmonically complex, when called on - so I've stayed with it. I like the approach of open spkr cables and harmonically complex ICs. I look at system construction as akin to bringing together a nice sauce; complex and simple all at once...hard to explain if you don't already hear it. I don't know much about Nordost the last 10 yrs...I was a reviewer many moons ago and Joe R. was nice enough to send me a loom of SPM - the purple stuff - and, unfortunately, I found it thin; harmonically denuded, space not dimensional or pressurized, but more of a void spotlighting sound sources within it; a spatial/source imbalance. Joe was so nice I never said a thing about it. I gather they have addressed a lot of that since then. I saw they grabbed the Electroclear tech and incorp'd it in their conditioners, so they must hearing something.

On the SF Cremonese: went back and looked at some reviews. Tellingly, a reveiwer, a fmr Shindo guy, raved and raved...then ended by saying the tweeter was intense. Same thing with a reviewer at Soundstage with the newest 2-driver floor stander Maxima Elector, raved then ended off, at the end, saying the tweeter ain't shy.

Once this plague passes sufficiently I'll head out and hear for myself, but I remember 4-5 yrs ago I heard both the Cremonese (standard) and Aida at AXPONA. The Crem was in a too-small room, but you can still hear a tweeter. I remember thinking it was trying too hard to sell; trying too hard to be exciting, especially up top. I don't hold spkrs to too much from a show, but the memory is coming back to me. And, again, that is why I asked you about the ex3mes' because I didn't hear any of that. And you - a listener with nice VAC ahead of Jadis - didn't hear it either.

Not sure what to do. But I have a year to figure it out. I think that I'm backing off the standard Cremonese. I could try to balance the tweeter energy - I've got an early series I NBS Pro that would most likely do the trick - but that becomes a trap at some point.

We'll see. Thanks again for your help. Mark

My pleasure, Mark. And very happy to hear your audio stories too.

 

[Asa]

Hi Phil. Just went earlier this AM and read my last post - I was pretty brutal on the Nordost! I'm not too keen when people bang my stuff. Champagne, watching the Packers take it in the teeth (I'm in the Chicago suburbs the last 55 yrs...) and rambling away it seems...sorry about that. And I was running 50W SET mono amps at the time; admittedly, not the best match to Nordost, at least the early stuff.

 

[Asa]

Phil, just thought of something I've been meaning to ask...how does you friend like his SF ex3mes? What does he run them with, if he doesn't mind you saying?

Hmmm, I'm actually mulling over the idea of going less expensive on the electronics and more into the speakers, get me closer to affording the ex3mes...maybe a Joule Electra LA-300ME into your Jadis amp. I mean, doesn't everyone want a big tube amp?!

 

[jadis]

Phil, just thought of something I've been meaning to ask...how does you friend like his SF ex3mes? What does he run them with, if he doesn't mind you saying?

Hmmm, I'm actually mulling over the idea of going less expensive on the electronics and more into the speakers, get me closer to affording the ex3mes...maybe a Joule Electra LA-300ME into your Jadis amp. I mean, doesn't everyone want a big tube amp?!

Mark, he was supposed to visit late last year but twice the Covid pandemic surged in our city and he was not able to come and listen to them. By end of March, these Ex3mes will be hauled back to his own room (under renovation and all audio gears still sealed and boxed all over the house). His amp choice is the VAC 450S iQ - 225 watts stereo work of Kevin Hayes, mated with a VAC Master preamp with MC/MM phono built in. He's got an Acoustic Signature Ascona Neo with T7000 tonearm and 2 Koetsus - Coralstone and Blue Lace Diamond awaiting action. Cables will be Jack's Masterbuilt Reference lines. And he's got a whole army of power line conditioners and cords and sockets from Shunyata plus a PS Audio regenerator P20. And CD player is the Gryphon Ethos. I look forward to listening to this system when all is done.

 

[jadis]

.maybe a Joule Electra LA-300ME into your Jadis amp. I mean, doesn't everyone want a big tube amp?!

Well, I've always been a big tube amp guy, always 100 tube watts up. This 150w Jadis is my largest so far next to my 90s JA200 Class A Jadis that was really only about 130w. This 150w Jadis sounds more like a 200 watter, just what the 86db Maggies needed.

 

[Asa]

My, my, your friend has nice gear, should sound fantastic....can't see anywhere in the chain where it wouldn't. Let me know when you've finally heard, I'd be interested. Oh, and when your friend finds that he just has to have the Aida IIs, please keep me in mind (ha!).

I could hear your Jadis had no problem with the ex3mes, and I'd read, somewhere, someone saying the same as you - that the PA100 sounded more forceful than its rated 150W. Sure, there are 12 KT120's there, but also some nice transformers. I know this might be rampant speculation, but, gut feeling, do you think the Jadis JA-80MkII at 90W (and some nice transformers..) could 'get past' the impedance curve on the ex3mes? SF Strad owners seem to fall into two camps: some saying an Ongaku at 20W (and good transformers...) can suffice; the others, who went on to 100W+ SS, saying you haven't heard the Strads until they have that juice behind them. I suspect that the ex3mes, however, need the extra current swing at some point in that curve. Just curious, if you have an opinion....

 

[jadis]

My, my, your friend has nice gear, should sound fantastic....can't see anywhere in the chain where it wouldn't. Let me know when you've finally heard, I'd be interested. Oh, and when your friend finds that he just has to have the Aida IIs, please keep me in mind (ha!).

I could hear your Jadis had no problem with the ex3mes, and I'd read, somewhere, someone saying the same as you - that the PA100 sounded more forceful than its rated 150W. Sure, there are 12 KT120's there, but also some nice transformers. I know this might be rampant speculation, but, gut feeling, do you think the Jadis JA-80MkII at 90W (and some nice transformers..) could 'get past' the impedance curve on the ex3mes? SF Strad owners seem to fall into two camps: some saying an Ongaku at 20W (and good transformers...) can suffice; the others, who went on to 100W+ SS, saying you haven't heard the Strads until they have that juice behind them. I suspect that the ex3mes, however, need the extra current swing at some point in that curve. Just curious, if you have an opinion....

Indeed the gears are lovely, I can just imagine them playing as a system. It's very well thought out, and geared to this tastes. His first choice for amps were the Jadis, but there is some local dealership problems here. I'm not too familiar about impedance swings of speakers, so I base my amp/speakers matching more in watts/sensitivity. The ex3mes are at 92db , compared to 86db for my Magnepan3.7s. Mine is a more difficult load and indeed when I switched to the ex3mes, my volume level was way lower than with the 3.7i's. I believe there should be no problem with 90 watts Class A JA80MKII. They will be a fabulous match, imo.

 

[jadis]

Last week. the babysitting saga finally ended and went to its proper place with its owner.

@Steve, the last shipment of CS footers went into this system.

I helped install all the components in this brand new room, and all audio gears are brand new out of the box. And sounding splendid. Truly lovely.