BAT REX II Mono Amps Audition

gadawg58

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So I’ve been using a pair of Mark Levinson No536 Mono’s with my BAT REX II preamp for the past almost 5 years and been very happy. Then last year went over to a friends house and listened to his all tube setup and thought afterwards that mine might be missing, well … something. So, after finding a good deal on a pair of BAT REX II Monos which should have amazing synergy with my preamp … I’m going to finally hear an all tube setup at home and get to hear first hand if this is better (obviously very subjective) or just different. More to come …

George
 
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morricab

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So I’ve been using a pair of Mark Levinson No536 Mono’s with my BAT REX II preamp for the past almost 5 years and been very happy. Then last year went over to a friends house and listened to his all tube setup and thought afterwards that mine might be missing, well … something. So, after finding a good deal on a pair of BAT REX II Monos which should have amazing synergy with my preamp … I’m going to finally hear an all tube setup at home and get to hear first hand if this is better (obviously very subjective) or just different. More to come …

George
Speakers?
 

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gadawg58

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gadawg58

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Here are my initial impressions after a few hours last night ... It took about an hour for the amps to get to probably 90% of where they were after maybe another half hour, so call it 1.5 hours to really be ready for serious listening. Once fully warmed up, the things that really stood out as being better from the No536's (not necessarily in order) were how much more real vocals now sounded in the room, larger and more holographic soundstage with much more depth beyond the speakers both in back and in front, saxophones and guitars sounded much richer and much more like what I hear at a small jazz club and even the piano started to sound more realistic which is something my system has always struggled with. I'd say that the areas where the Levinson still performed better were bass grip and extension, overall dyanamics, and overall detail. While the Levinson amps did reveal more insight into the finer detail (that could sometimes come across as being more analytical in comparison) the REX II's did a better job of showing off the picture as a whole and didn't focus too much on any individual elements.

I think the biggest thing that I can say right now is that with the REX II in the system I stopped thinking about what I was hearing and just enjoyed it more which after all is what its all about. It just reminds me more of live acoustic music. Now, if you're trying to reproduce a rock concert then the Levinson's will do that and never break a sweat. After all the guy that was responsible for much of the design of the new Levinson product spent many years at Krell with Dan so it wouldn't be an understatement to call it a KrelLevinson. Some might not think that's a compliment but I did mean it as such. It should be noted that when pushing the system hard, the Levinson's never broke a sweat where as the REX II's did make some weird sounds but for now I'm going to attribute that to the amps needing to be re-tubed. The previous owner was upfront and let me know these tubes needed replacing and that was considered in the purchase price.

So ... I'm going to order a complete new set of tubes for it because overall I did really enjoy what these amps brought to the table and I'm hoping that with a fresh set of tubes the anomalies that I heard when stepping on the gas some were caused by 6C33's at nearly 2000 hours being ready to be swapped out. I know they ultimately won't compare to the 800 Watts that the Levinson's can output into the 4 ohm load of my Wilson Alexx speakers but my room isn't overly large so I don't think I really ever needed that much .. but will the 160 Watts of the REX II's suffice? I'll know that over the next few weeks I guess.

Overall I think that the complete tube REX setup sounds incredible and is providing me a closer approximation of what the music actually sounds like than the REX/Levinson combination did. Some of that may be system synergy as well although I much preferred the REX II Preamp with the Levinson's to their preamp so while system synergy may be helpful here ... I'm not sure it is always the case.

As far as any issues with heat went ... my room is 20X24 and has a dedicated 3 ton A/C unit on it so heat wasn't an issue. Honestly I'm not sure that I noticed it on that much more than normal but when you go stand by the amps and put your hands a few inches away from the output tubes you certainly get the feeling that in a smaller room they might be equally effective as space heaters. That said, if I really get hooked but need just a little more power, I can always buy two more and have 320 Watts of REX power but I'm hoping that a new set of tubes cures me of that thought!

I'll update this thread once I get the new tubes in and certainly will let everyone know which amps are staying and which are departing once I've spent more time with them.

Happy listening!

George
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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Here are my initial impressions after a few hours last night ... It took about an hour for the amps to get to probably 90% of where they were after maybe another half hour, so call it 1.5 hours to really be ready for serious listening. Once fully warmed up, the things that really stood out as being better from the No536's (not necessarily in order) were how much more real vocals now sounded in the room, larger and more holographic soundstage with much more depth beyond the speakers both in back and in front, saxophones and guitars sounded much richer and much more like what I hear at a small jazz club and even the piano started to sound more realistic which is something my system has always struggled with. I'd say that the areas where the Levinson still performed better were bass grip and extension, overall dyanamics, and overall detail. While the Levinson amps did reveal more insight into the finer detail (that could sometimes come across as being more analytical in comparison) the REX II's did a better job of showing off the picture as a whole and didn't focus too much on any individual elements.

I think the biggest thing that I can say right now is that with the REX II in the system I stopped thinking about what I was hearing and just enjoyed it more which after all is what its all about. It just reminds me more of live acoustic music. Now, if you're trying to reproduce a rock concert then the Levinson's will do that and never break a sweat. After all the guy that was responsible for much of the design of the new Levinson product spent many years at Krell with Dan so it wouldn't be an understatement to call it a KrelLevinson. Some might not think that's a compliment but I did mean it as such. It should be noted that when pushing the system hard, the Levinson's never broke a sweat where as the REX II's did make some weird sounds but for now I'm going to attribute that to the amps needing to be re-tubed. The previous owner was upfront and let me know these tubes needed replacing and that was considered in the purchase price.

So ... I'm going to order a complete new set of tubes for it because overall I did really enjoy what these amps brought to the table and I'm hoping that with a fresh set of tubes the anomalies that I heard when stepping on the gas some were caused by 6C33's at nearly 2000 hours being ready to be swapped out. I know they ultimately won't compare to the 800 Watts that the Levinson's can output into the 4 ohm load of my Wilson Alexx speakers but my room isn't overly large so I don't think I really ever needed that much .. but will the 160 Watts of the REX II's suffice? I'll know that over the next few weeks I guess.

Overall I think that the complete tube REX setup sounds incredible and is providing me a closer approximation of what the music actually sounds like than the REX/Levinson combination did. Some of that may be system synergy as well although I much preferred the REX II Preamp with the Levinson's to their preamp so while system synergy may be helpful here ... I'm not sure it is always the case.

As far as any issues with heat went ... my room is 20X24 and has a dedicated 3 ton A/C unit on it so heat wasn't an issue. Honestly I'm not sure that I noticed it on that much more than normal but when you go stand by the amps and put your hands a few inches away from the output tubes you certainly get the feeling that in a smaller room they might be equally effective as space heaters. That said, if I really get hooked but need just a little more power, I can always buy two more and have 320 Watts of REX power but I'm hoping that a new set of tubes cures me of that thought!

I'll update this thread once I get the new tubes in and certainly will let everyone know which amps are staying and which are departing once I've spent more time with them.

Happy listening!

George
Sounds good but if you really want to hear what the amps can then a more tube friendly speaker is likely in order.
 

gadawg58

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Sounds good but if you really want to hear what the amps can then a more tube friendly speaker is likely in order.
Well speakers won't be going anywhere ... well maybe one to turn into XVX's! :cool: Are you thinking that 4 of these amps wouldn't be able to drive the Wilson XVX speakers at some point? I'm asking because there was a great write up in the Absolute Sound about these amps driving the Alexandria's. Jacob seemed to think they did fine ... even just a single pair although he noted with 2 pair they had a more open presentation and better bottom end control. Would like to better understand where you are coming from on this? Have you tried the REX II amps with Wilson speakers and found them to not be sufficient? Appreciate any insight you can provide!

George
 

gadawg58

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Apr 7, 2018
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So the the new tubes have about 50 hours on them (not really sure how many hours they really need to settle in all the way) but they changed a bit after the first 25 hours and not much since then. What is apparent is that the tubes that came in the amps were in fact at the end of their useful life which is fine as the previous owner represented it as such. With the new tubes in place the first thing that hit me was how much more dynamic these amps were and how much more power they seem to have on tap than with the original set of tubes. Again while I've had tube preamps in most all my systems these are my first tube amps so I'm not sure I realized that worn out power tubes didn't put out as much power but it does make sense. Before the new tubes ... I was a little concerned I might be tempted to think I needed two sets of these amps but now that the amps have been re-tubed that thought is a distant memory. True that I have a relatively small room at 20X24 but these amps have more than sufficient power to drive the Wilson Alexx speakers. Listening to Dire Straits at an average of 82 db with peaks in the low 90's at roughly 11 ft away from the speakers. No, it's not going to play Metallica for my son the way the Levinson's did but that's not what I'm playing through this system anyway.

As I thought about how to describe what I'm hearing and absolutely loving about these amps it struck me that listening to a particular track that had two different kinds of guitars playing ... in the past the two guitars had sounded like they were the same kind of guitar playing via the same guitar amps. Now with the Rex's in charge of the performance I could clearly hear that the two different guitar setups could not be more different. What I'm hearing is a much more faithful recreation of the tonality of the instruments being played. Then I played a few large orchestral pieces and was completely blown away by how nuanced the system could be now ... much closer to going to listen to Dallas Symphony Orchestra than before. My setup sounded best plugged into the 3-4 ohm taps with that having the best bass control and overall sonics. The 8 ohm tap certainly sounded like it produced more "air" but I mean .. how much more air do you need with 160W Triodes anyway? :cool:

Where the amps don't perform as well as the levinsons is in pure Bass output. Those big guys have a solid grip on the bottom end that is going to take a lot more money than I can spend on the system right now to beat and get all the things these tube amps are doing really well. I would say the Levinson's also seemed to have a slightly more focused image than the Rex's, slight but noticeable. I have heard systems I like much better than the REX's for sure. My favorite to date has been the all VAC Statement system at the Florida expo a few years ago and that was even before the 452's came out. I'm sure those are incredible. They should be for the money. What I can say though is that for now I am completely satisfied that I have created the very best sounding system (to me) that I can for the money involved. My next steps will probably involve looking at my digital front end again and upgrading my phono preamp to thew newer VTL 6.5II since I have the original and really love it. I've already had the REX II preamp for 5 years and now I could see me keeping the Rex band together for another 5 years or more until something much better (and much more money) comes along. And let's face it .. if as I get closer to retirement other priorities take top spot ... I'd be happy with the Rex's for a long time to come!

Cheers and happy listening!

George
 

Brucemck2

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So the the new tubes have about 50 hours on them (not really sure how many hours they really need to settle in all the way) but they changed a bit after the first 25 hours and not much since then. What is apparent is that the tubes that came in the amps were in fact at the end of their useful life which is fine as the previous owner represented it as such. With the new tubes in place the first thing that hit me was how much more dynamic these amps were and how much more power they seem to have on tap than with the original set of tubes. Again while I've had tube preamps in most all my systems these are my first tube amps so I'm not sure I realized that worn out power tubes didn't put out as much power but it does make sense. Before the new tubes ... I was a little concerned I might be tempted to think I needed two sets of these amps but now that the amps have been re-tubed that thought is a distant memory. True that I have a relatively small room at 20X24 but these amps have more than sufficient power to drive the Wilson Alexx speakers. Listening to Dire Straits at an average of 82 db with peaks in the low 90's at roughly 11 ft away from the speakers. No, it's not going to play Metallica for my son the way the Levinson's did but that's not what I'm playing through this system anyway.

As I thought about how to describe what I'm hearing and absolutely loving about these amps it struck me that listening to a particular track that had two different kinds of guitars playing ... in the past the two guitars had sounded like they were the same kind of guitar playing via the same guitar amps. Now with the Rex's in charge of the performance I could clearly hear that the two different guitar setups could not be more different. What I'm hearing is a much more faithful recreation of the tonality of the instruments being played. Then I played a few large orchestral pieces and was completely blown away by how nuanced the system could be now ... much closer to going to listen to Dallas Symphony Orchestra than before. My setup sounded best plugged into the 3-4 ohm taps with that having the best bass control and overall sonics. The 8 ohm tap certainly sounded like it produced more "air" but I mean .. how much more air do you need with 160W Triodes anyway? :cool:

Where the amps don't perform as well as the levinsons is in pure Bass output. Those big guys have a solid grip on the bottom end that is going to take a lot more money than I can spend on the system right now to beat and get all the things these tube amps are doing really well. I would say the Levinson's also seemed to have a slightly more focused image than the Rex's, slight but noticeable. I have heard systems I like much better than the REX's for sure. My favorite to date has been the all VAC Statement system at the Florida expo a few years ago and that was even before the 452's came out. I'm sure those are incredible. They should be for the money. What I can say though is that for now I am completely satisfied that I have created the very best sounding system (to me) that I can for the money involved. My next steps will probably involve looking at my digital front end again and upgrading my phono preamp to thew newer VTL 6.5II since I have the original and really love it. I've already had the REX II preamp for 5 years and now I could see me keeping the Rex band together for another 5 years or more until something much better (and much more money) comes along. And let's face it .. if as I get closer to retirement other priorities take top spot ... I'd be happy with the Rex's for a long time to come!

Cheers and happy listening!

George
BAT‘s tube amps and preamps, when mated to suitable loads, are under appreciated. They are seriously good music makers, and are close to bulletproof.
 
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jfrech

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Hi George,

I ran BAT VK150SE's with a BATVK51E with Wilson's for years. WP6's, 8's, MAXX 2 and 3's. It's a great combo. Other than my air conditioning bill in the summer :). What taps are you using? I found this to be contrary to normal opinion. I think your Wilson's are 4ohms and I am not sure that was the best tap when I was listening. I do agree with you on tubes and these amps. Also the warm up time. If you can ever step up from Transparent Ref power cords to Opus on the amps I think you'll be quite happy.

All the best, great review and congrats !
 
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gadawg58

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Hi George,

I ran BAT VK150SE's with a BATVK51E with Wilson's for years. WP6's, 8's, MAXX 2 and 3's. It's a great combo. Other than my air conditioning bill in the summer :). What taps are you using? I found this to be contrary to normal opinion. I think your Wilson's are 4ohms and I am not sure that was the best tap when I was listening. I do agree with you on tubes and these amps. Also the warm up time. If you can ever step up from Transparent Ref power cords to Opus on the amps I think you'll be quite happy.

All the best, great review and congrats !
I am using the lowest impedance taps rated at 3-4 ohms. Bass is much better controlled on Alexx with those taps.

George
 
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2fastdriving

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congrats on your new amps. I have Audio Research Ref160 monos and I agree with your assessment about the bass being the one thing that is a little less impressive when driving the Alexx original (which I also have).

I have always used the 8-ohm tap, because that's what seems best with ARC/Wilson.

However, a pair of REL 31's have solved the bass depth issue for me. Maybe not the speed or slam, though, since I am running the high-level input on them and they mirror what the amp is doing.

I am curious, how did you think you could hook up two sets of monos to your Alexx? They don't support that. Maybe BAT has some way of bridging them?
 
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gadawg58

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congrats on your new amps. I have Audio Research Ref160 monos and I agree with your assessment about the bass being the one thing that is a little less impressive when driving the Alexx original (which I also have).

I have always used the 8-ohm tap, because that's what seems best with ARC/Wilson.

However, a pair of REL 31's have solved the bass depth issue for me. Maybe not the speed or slam, though, since I am running the high-level input on them and they mirror what the amp is doing.

I am curious, how did you think you could hook up two sets of monos to your Alexx? They don't support that. Maybe BAT has some way of bridging them?
Yes ... 2 BAT Rex II amps are able to be run parallel to each speaker if needed or desired. More control over the bass but gives up a little detail from the review I read. JH actually listened to both setups for his review in The Absolute Sound with the Alexandria's and the Rex gear a few years ago. After having the Rex setup here at the house I totally agree with his review on the sound with Wilson speakers. Great match!

I have a pair of REL No25's running via the high level input also ... thinking this weekend I'm going to try them with the low level input just to see if the preamp output provides better results or not? Guessing not but I have the cables and the time so can't hurt anything by trying.

George
 
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ozy

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George,
a fellow Georgian here….. congratulations on your BAT additions…. Had the original Rex preamp and a pair of 6220 monos years back. Loved the warmth(pun), and the musical textured they exuded.
BAT, is definitely an underrated company, imho, on so many levels.
what are you findings now that several months have passed? Any issues , reliability wise?
are the rex2s self biased? And what speaker taps have you settled on?
 

gadawg58

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Apr 7, 2018
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George,
a fellow Georgian here….. congratulations on your BAT additions…. Had the original Rex preamp and a pair of 6220 monos years back. Loved the warmth(pun), and the musical textured they exuded.
BAT, is definitely an underrated company, imho, on so many levels.
what are you findings now that several months have passed? Any issues , reliability wise?
are the rex2s self biased? And what speaker taps have you settled on?
Well I used to be a Georgian at least .. been in Texas for the past 14 years now! Does that make me a Texan now? Still pull for the Dawgs in college football! Any how … the Rex II’s .. both preamp and mono amps sound amazing! They definitely are warm … both sonically and physically but I have a dedicated room with dedicated AC so I’m good! Zero issues at all with any of the BAT gear … been rock solid for me and several others that I know that have owned it. Yes the Rex II’s are self biasing and with my Wilson’s I’m using the 3-4 ohm tap which is where they offer the best control of the bass. These are not like ARC or other Tube gear that is more neutral … these definitely err and err on the side of more of a silky presentation which I am enjoying because most of the other gear at this price point (especially since I bought these used) has other issues that to me are more difficult to live with. I’m sure I’ll upgrade to one of end game type solutions in a few years … leaning towards VAC Statement level gear so far … but for now I’m just relaxing and enjoying the music like never before. Cheers!

George
 
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KeithR

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BAT is truly underrated for the price - and they use top notch parts and build quality, just no blinged up cases that have become so popular and double the cost. Glad they system is sounding good!
 
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ozy

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Well I used to be a Georgian at least .. been in Texas for the past 14 years now! Does that make me a Texan now? Still pull for the Dawgs in college football! Any how … the Rex II’s .. both preamp and mono amps sound amazing! They definitely are warm … both sonically and physically but I have a dedicated room with dedicated AC so I’m good! Zero issues at all with any of the BAT gear … been rock solid for me and several others that I know that have owned it. Yes the Rex II’s are self biasing and with my Wilson’s I’m using the 3-4 ohm tap which is where they offer the best control of the bass. These are not like ARC or other Tube gear that is more neutral … these definitely err and err on the side of more of a silky presentation which I am enjoying because most of the other gear at this price point (especially since I bought these used) has other issues that to me are more difficult to live with. I’m sure I’ll upgrade to one of end game type solutions in a few years … leaning towards VAC Statement level gear so far … but for now I’m just relaxing and enjoying the music like never before. Cheers!

George
Good morning George,
yes, once a Georgian , well, you know, you'll always be one, at least in spirit......
really glad to hear about the reliability and trouble-free experience you are having with the BAT gear.
and yes, i recall from 10+ years ago, how warm my dedicated room had gotten with the rex 1 and 6220s in play...
it seems that the silky /tub/y/ intoxicating BAT sound has remained intact. that's a relief. surrounded by these new age """"Soulutions"""'- this, sterile and flat sounding electronics- it's good to hear that BAT didn't try to "me too" it.
had the original vac 450s and statement pre and enjoyed them immensely. not sure their huge jump in price point is warranted nor justified, given that other tube manufactures remain in the same ball parts for years... but everything is more expensive nowadays......
enjoy your BATS and please keep us posted.
 
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ozy

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BAT is truly underrated for the price - and they use top notch parts and build quality, just no blinged up cases that have become so popular and double the cost. Glad they system is sounding good!
so very true. Kevin Deal from upscale has a video detailing the levels of quality parts and execution in the rex 3 preamp. Quite impressive.
 
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