So it's on utility power 100% of the time, an internal converter or rectifier converts the AC input to DC, charges the battery and the inverter converts the DC back to AC? Then, since it's a Uninterruptible Power Supply if the utility power fails it instantly goes to battery until power is restored or a genset comes on line? If so it's a UPS.
Battery Power
- Thread starter Kingrex
- Start date
Just a question. Since it is off the grid. Where does the ground wire of the inverter go to?
If you were to perform a code compliant installation with one of these inverter, there is a bond screw on the inverter that would go to the premises ground system. Setting one of these up in a room as stand alone does raise an interesting question. The only time they are connected to the grid is when you plug in the charger.
I would have to dig into my code book and look hard at secondary power sources and see what the bonding requirements are. Off the cuff, I would say a minimum #4 bonding wire would need to come from the premise ground system and bond to the inverter.
I am 100% the belief these systems far exceed anything a Stromtank could wish to offer. And they could power a large stereo for hours on end. It's dependent on battery size. And they are a fraction the cost. But they have to be built up.
I see what you mean by battery cables. If.you were to series batteries, you want bus bars, not soft battery cables between the cells.
Interesting the comment on everything counts. It does, doesn't it.
My comment on cables was how, or what your using to connect the batteries to the inverter. In a setup like this, I imagine an inverter behind.a rack on a wall with soft flexible cables from the battery to the inverter and an 8 Awg wire to a power distribution strip.
If I may ask, what is your secondary? How are you attaching to the secondary and powering your equipment. Did you fuse the secondary. Did you fuse the primary?
Reading through this I think I've taken the thread off on a tangent. What I described is a true online double conversion UPS which is used in IT and other critical power applications. The products in the link you posted don't fit that spec but, within certain limitations they could be used for back up power. For providing battery power to audio gear an inverter with a battery pack and charger may work fine.
It’s still grounded, just like Kingrex said, and when you charge it must be on the grid too. I sometimes unplug the charging power cable when I’m in inverter mode only. Which I can switch on my phone with Cerbo GX. But I couldn’t really hear a difference so far (TBC) since even the charging power cable is routed through another power conditioner.
Something I want to address heads on are the questions on powering amplifiers. Non issue IMHO with 48v, good cells and good inverter. The power is on tap, it’s not something anyone would even question. Including bass, ie slam, speed, extension, control, contouring, decay, delineation… throughout the whole bass FR. But again everything matters and you need to pay attention to each detail and make sure you use quality components and implementation at each point of the chain.
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way back when I did data center installs
They used the ultimate ups as mentioned above double conversion
Two sets of batteries , one set is on while the second charges. always on the grid but just to run internal circuit boards and charge batteries. very expensive stuff and back then not a perfect sinusoidal wave but close.
to me regen devices are close enough and have a much more complex power supply.
regrading amps , this becomes a debate and unless you hear the argument it’s moot
small tube amps I can’t see how it can hurt
but large amps big class A draw has its advantages and drawbacks
Big amps do not modulate power as much as a smaller amps overall.
what I mean is % of fluctuations is smaller
anyone’s grid is in most cases way above what we would consider Ina home
freq is very steady and does not vary under varying conditions. voltage does and this is where a regen shines. There are noises on power grides to our house but most does not matter and if one wants better a regen works.
The one thing only a double ups inverter does or if one takes the plug out of the wall on a typical ups is dc offset or sign wave distortion. this is what effects larger amps due to larger wire gauge on transformers
even the distribution transformer for your home is effected.
at this point one must decide what needs to be done not what one wants to be done
They used the ultimate ups as mentioned above double conversion
Two sets of batteries , one set is on while the second charges. always on the grid but just to run internal circuit boards and charge batteries. very expensive stuff and back then not a perfect sinusoidal wave but close.
to me regen devices are close enough and have a much more complex power supply.
regrading amps , this becomes a debate and unless you hear the argument it’s moot
small tube amps I can’t see how it can hurt
but large amps big class A draw has its advantages and drawbacks
Big amps do not modulate power as much as a smaller amps overall.
what I mean is % of fluctuations is smaller
anyone’s grid is in most cases way above what we would consider Ina home
freq is very steady and does not vary under varying conditions. voltage does and this is where a regen shines. There are noises on power grides to our house but most does not matter and if one wants better a regen works.
The one thing only a double ups inverter does or if one takes the plug out of the wall on a typical ups is dc offset or sign wave distortion. this is what effects larger amps due to larger wire gauge on transformers
even the distribution transformer for your home is effected.
at this point one must decide what needs to be done not what one wants to be done
I must confess, I didn't read all the OP's post about his suggested method, but when I got to the part describing a battery-based source of AC, I stopped reading. The question is why supply any audio equipment with AC, when the first thing it does is convert it into DC? No audio circuit needs AC so I see no advantage of starting with DC (the battery), then converting to AC, and then the amp or other deice converts it back to DC!
Isn't it a better solution to use the DC of the battery to directly supply the circuit boards within the amp or other component? This means doing away with the DC to AC converter in the battery box and doing away with the AC to DC converter (the power supply) in the amplifier. No AC = no chance of mains-borne hum.
In practice, this needs messing with the amplifier and ensuring the battery voltage meets the requirement of the audio boards in the amp. Nothing is impossible, but is it really worth the effort and cost? I had a battery-powered amplifier for a while (from Red Wine Audio) that was designed in the first place to run on 12 V DC. Lots of common sense in this method, though they used a somewhat primitive Class D technology that let it down, sound quality-wise. I'd commend this method in theory, though no big brand goes that route.
I have never experienced any problem by using the conventional means of supplying the audio kit with AC directly from the domestic 240 V AC supply and relying on the good engineering within the amplifier to ensure the conversion to DC is done well and that undesirables such as RFI are prevented from doing damage to the signal. All good quality equipment should offer this and the only worthwhile precaution is to use a good quality screened cable between the wall socket and the amp's power input socket - something like Belden 19364. No need to pay daft prices for anything fancier as it'll add nothing to improve sound quality.
That's my experience - others may differ
Isn't it a better solution to use the DC of the battery to directly supply the circuit boards within the amp or other component? This means doing away with the DC to AC converter in the battery box and doing away with the AC to DC converter (the power supply) in the amplifier. No AC = no chance of mains-borne hum.
In practice, this needs messing with the amplifier and ensuring the battery voltage meets the requirement of the audio boards in the amp. Nothing is impossible, but is it really worth the effort and cost? I had a battery-powered amplifier for a while (from Red Wine Audio) that was designed in the first place to run on 12 V DC. Lots of common sense in this method, though they used a somewhat primitive Class D technology that let it down, sound quality-wise. I'd commend this method in theory, though no big brand goes that route.
I have never experienced any problem by using the conventional means of supplying the audio kit with AC directly from the domestic 240 V AC supply and relying on the good engineering within the amplifier to ensure the conversion to DC is done well and that undesirables such as RFI are prevented from doing damage to the signal. All good quality equipment should offer this and the only worthwhile precaution is to use a good quality screened cable between the wall socket and the amp's power input socket - something like Belden 19364. No need to pay daft prices for anything fancier as it'll add nothing to improve sound quality.
That's my experience - others may differ
