Bernie Grundman tells it like it is----great video---lots to unpack

[ddk]

in the reissues I have heard classic records are still the better ones. Testament, speakers corner, analogphonic not so much

he also mentioned a lot in lost from the lacquer to the pressing

I probably have a few dozen Classic reissues and they're all dead and tweaked, in a negative audiophile label way. I bought them for curiosity or because I couldn't get a decent copy of the original or even an older reissue but it was pointless. I can't listen to them. I much prefer sourcing a CD put out by original non-audiophile label.

david

 

[bonzo75]

I probably have a few dozen Classic reissues and they're all dead and tweaked, in a negative audiophile label way. I bought them for curiosity or because I couldn't get a decent copy of the original or even an older reissue which was pointless. I can't listen to them. I much prefer sourcing a CD put out by a original non-audiophile label.

david

Lalo, Henryk Szeryng, Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Walter Hendl - Symphonie Espagnole

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 1994 Vinyl release of "Symphonie Espagnole" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

Have compared to the original. Original is better but this is very good

Below I have compared the Cisco reissue to the original. Original is better and Cisco is very good. I have heard that the classic records is supposed to be as good as Cisco, not sure, worth a try

Heifetz - Beethoven . Bach, Brooks Smith - Sonata No. 9 In A "Kreutzer" / Concerto for Two Violins

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the Vinyl release of "Sonata No. 9 In A "Kreutzer" / Concerto for Two Violins" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

Rimsky-Korsakoff / Reiner / Chicago Symphony - Scheherazade

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the Vinyl release of "Scheherazade" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

Compared to analog productions. Classic records is better

 

[ddk]

Lalo, Henryk Szeryng, Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Walter Hendl - Symphonie Espagnole

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 1994 Vinyl release of "Symphonie Espagnole" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

Have compared to the original. Original is better but this is very good

Below I have compared the Cisco reissue to the original. Original is better and Cisco is very good. I have heard that the classic records is supposed to be as good as Cisco, not sure, worth a try

Heifetz - Beethoven . Bach, Brooks Smith - Sonata No. 9 In A "Kreutzer" / Concerto for Two Violins

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the Vinyl release of "Sonata No. 9 In A "Kreutzer" / Concerto for Two Violins" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

Rimsky-Korsakoff / Reiner / Chicago Symphony - Scheherazade

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the Vinyl release of "Scheherazade" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

Compared to analog productions. Classic records is better

I have all the originals.

david

 

[microstrip]

(...) Sound engineers like Wilma Cozart were interested in achieving high quality recordings and it was a time of innovation. As technology changed and with the rise of mass market media a fair amount of that early talent died off and artistry and trade secrets were lost.

People should read the opinions Wilma Cozart about the digital re-issues of the Mercury recordings versus originals. In short she says there are no winners, except the original three channel tapes!

Unfortunately the existing transcriptions to discrete three channel SACD were not carried with the supervision of Wilma Cozart and are known for its poor quality.

 

[microstrip]

Preference or marketing. I prefer to listen for myself. Reviewers may want to satisfy their advertisers. And some reviews clearly state that the latest newest release is the next best available after the original. That’s convenient and sometimes true. Some of the reissues are dead quiet but the sound is dead too.

Surely your opinion is different. I was just addressing the opinion of most reviewers who wrote about re-issues.

Few of my vinyl friends ever prefer a re-issue to an original based on direct comparisons. It’s not always the remastering, it’s often the quality of the final formulation and thickness.

Again, what is the weight of your or my friends in this matter? No one in this forum know them and their preferences. I was referring to known reviewers, with real presence in the net, that people can read and follow.

 

[microstrip]

The genius of Vladimir Lamm. You already know his story.

I would love to know more about his earing model. Unfortunately all we have is a story shrouded in fog.

As far as I can see Vladimir was a very discrete man and people respected it. All the information we had on him was in the interviews that we could find in the Lamm site, that are now inaccessible. We still do not even know the schedule of the Lamm re-start.

 

[microstrip]

I think for many it’s simply an observation that they do sound more natural. The why is less important. Perhaps the difficulty is coming to grips with the sound and trying to describe it. The more successful attempts are those that describe what they hear while referencing actual live music. Much can be learned from reading Tim’s reviews of LAMM products. So many other reviews refer to competing electronics and reference audio file attributes.

The TM designation is insulting and very distracting from the substance of the debate. Natural sound is simply an approach to system building and set up with a reference in mind. There is a target and a way to reach it.

Yes, Peter, I know you hate anything that pretends to make things more clear or any analysis. But sorry this is an open audiophile forum.

BTW, I learned a lot more from Tim reviews such as the two Wislon Audio Alexia' versions than from his Lamm reviews. I suggest you read them to learn about the other side of the moon.

 

[Ed.P]

As far as I can see Vladimir was a very discrete man and people respected it. All the information we had on him was in the interviews that we could find in the Lamm site, that are now inaccessible. We still do not even know the schedule of the Lamm re-start.

Wayback Machine

web.archive.org

interviews:

INTERVIEWS - Lamm Industries Audio Products

web.archive.org

 

[microstrip]

I agree that Francisco's Natural TM has no relevance here but Bernie's comments about natural sound and ambience are germane. You obviously have someone who's fully conscious about the importance of preserving ambience fro realism and natural sound so we can assume his masters are good and contain that information. Question is why and where does it all go to hell in production process that we end up with dead, flat sounding records, exactly what he wants to avoid. I'm pretty certain there are contributing issues with vinyl formulation and the ridiculous thickness of the pressings but I wonder if there's additional filtering and EQ happening post master.

david

David,

Can you tell me five albums from the list of Bernie Grundman shown at Wikipedia

Bernie Grundman - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

that you have experienced as sounding very natural?

 

[microstrip]

Wayback Machine

web.archive.org

interviews:

INTERVIEWS - Lamm Industries Audio Products

web.archive.org

Thanks!

 

[PeterA]

Surely your opinion is different. I was just addressing the opinion of most reviewers who wrote about re-issues.



Again, what is the weight of your or my friends in this matter? No one in this forum know them and their preferences. I was referring to known reviewers, with real presence in the net, that people can read and follow.

Do you prefer the sound of reissues over originals?

 

[astrotoy]

Nothing can compare with the analogue non-Dolby master tapes from the 1950s and 60s. A bit more hiss, but much more transparent and "alive". The Dolby encoded tapes always sound a bit washed out and opaque to me.
The Russian GDRZ archive has a rich collection of master tapes from the major Western labels, since they were in charge of the issues at the Soviet bloc countries in those days.

I was able to obtain a Russian copy of the Solti Wagner Ring Cycle. This is on the Russian Svema tape and totals 23 reels. The Solti Ring was recorded from 1958 though 1965, before Dolby. They appear to be copies of masters, or safety masters and certainly sound like that. I know the original tapes are no longer any good, so my copy may be one of the best (better) copies extant. I also have a similar Russian copy of the Johanna Martzy Bach Sonatas and Partitas (issued originally by EMI in mono). Again quite good sonics.

Larry

 

[microstrip]

Do you prefer the sound of reissues over originals?

I have a few Decca, DG and Telefunken originals, I got re-issues of some known works of the golden age.

My opinion is not relevant on such subject- I listen mainly to digital that fortunately just debates formats easily accessible, except some SACD's that become collectable.

I listened to the "great recordings of the past" in the 80's and 90's, from then on my main interest moved to modern recordings and other types of classic music. I enjoyed and respect the heritage from the past, but currently prefer the music interpretations of more recent people, so I am not bonded to old formats.

As far as I know MoFi was not re-issuing music from the golden age using DCS masters!

 

[PeterA]

I have a few Decca, DG and Telefunken originals, I got re-issues of some known works of the golden age.

My opinion is not relevant on such subject- I listen mainly to digital that fortunately just debates formats easily accessible, except some SACD's that become collectable.

I listened to the "great recordings of the past" in the 80's and 90's, from then on my main interest moved to modern recordings and other types of classic music. I enjoyed and respect the heritage from the past, but currently prefer the music interpretations of more recent people, so I am not bonded to old formats.

As far as I know MoFi was not re-issuing music from the golden age using DCS masters!

You do not need to answer. You used to listen to vinyl so I assumed you had a preference.

When discussing preference of reissues or originals, I am disappointed that you do not think your opinion matters. What individuals prefer I think is all that matters. Much more relevant to me than what a reviewer writes. Listeners actually pay for what they prefer if they can find them for sale. In my experience, listeners almost always prefer original vinyl recordings in good condition and settle for the reissue if it is what is available or affordable.

 

[EBITDAC]

… In my experience, listeners almost always prefer original vinyl recordings in good condition and settle for the reissue if it is what is available or affordable.

This is exactly my experience and buying pattern. The most recent example was a first pressing of The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust. It was still in shrink, the vinyl looked visually great, so I picked it up. After cleaning, I put it on and was immediately assaulted by a whooshing sound. However there were these glorious bursts between the whooshes when the guitar and percussion came through unlike any of the represses or digital copies I’ve heard.

If I can find a first pressing that’s suitably clean, that’s generally my go to.

 

[bonzo75]

I have a few Decca, DG and Telefunken originals, I got re-issues of some known works of the golden age

please put pics of LPs you consider to be originals. Mostly the issue here is that these are the wrong LPs. Just having Decca or DG etc on them does not qualify them in the original category.

 

[Tango]

please put pics of LPs you consider to be originals. Mostly the issue here is that these are the wrong LPs. Just having Decca or DG etc on them does not qualify them in the original category.

It is best not to question Micro. Take it as is and move on man. You know how it is going to go. And you said this is a nice thread initiated by Mike.

 

[tima]

Wayback Machine

web.archive.org

interviews:

INTERVIEWS - Lamm Industries Audio Products

web.archive.org

This is the way to look at past pages from the web, however in this case the redirect goes through "https://lammindustries.com" which catches all downstream URL requests, so you end up with either the current page for that address (in memoriam) or you are sent back to the archive. At least for the 10 or so links I tried, including the link to Interviews.

 

[audioblazer]

Thank you very much, Mike!

Bernie discusses, among other important topics, that digital sampling inadequately captures the high frequencies of the audio spectrum, and that digital reproduction in the high frequency range sounds clear, but that this is because information is lost.

Whether one disagrees or agrees with Bernie’s views, Bernie is undeniably an extremely authoritative source with vast experience, if not unparalleled experience, on these matters.

I would like to post the transcript of the several minutes of excerpt Mike highlights. But I don’t see a transcript under this particular YouTube video. Does anyone know how to display the transcript of the dialogue of this YouTube video, so we can see easily, and then discuss, Bernie’s verbatim statements?

Top right beside setting . Click CC . english subtitle

 

[Ron Resnick]

Do you prefer the sound of reissues over originals?

Hello Peter,

I understand you always, or almost always, prefer original pressings over re-issues on systems with vintage loudspeakers. Do you also always, or almost always, prefer original pressings over re-issue on systems with contemporary loudspeakers and contemporary electronics?

For example, do you always, or almost always, prefer original pressings over re-issues on MadFloyd’s system?

Thank you.