Best XLR connectors money can buy?

[Atmasphere]

I know how a solder joint sounds, and how a bad one sounds and prefer screw contacts (decent ones, the crappy ones suck too). Solder adds like a semiconductor effect IME and I try avoid it where possible.

Metallurgy is the trick there.

Use the wrong solder and you will introduce metals into the solder joint that can act a bit like a crude diode. But actually getting a good solder joint is easy as long as the solder is eutectic.

 

[Solypsa]

Sounds like you need a copper terminal strip with big copper screws. Old school answer to your dilema

 

[MarcelNL]

I know what I need, I just need to find it....As far as I'm concerned it does not need to be a 'high end' solution, a vintage connector that ticks the boxes is fine, I'll replace the device side to match...

 

[MarcelNL]

Metallurgy is the trick there.

Use the wrong solder and you will introduce metals into the solder joint that can act a bit like a crude diode. But actually getting a good solder joint is easy as long as the solder is eutectic.

sure, I did not add we tried several types of solder and for sure there are big differences but the final result was pretty clear.

 

[Atmasphere]

I know what I need, I just need to find it....As far as I'm concerned it does not need to be a 'high end' solution, a vintage connector that ticks the boxes is fine, I'll replace the device side to match...

In the old days, prior to common use of XLRs, balanced connections were executed by the use of barrier strips with screw terminals. To really do that right, the spade or ring lug used in such a connection should be crimped properly to the wire.

However the whole thing is solved rather easily if the source driving the balanced connection is low impedance and able to drive a 1000 to 2000 Ohm load. Quite simply, any issues with the connection are swamped by the current. That is how they did it in the old days again but the load impedance was actually 600 Ohms. Microphones often used a 150 Ohm input impedance at the microphone preamp.

If you are getting sonic differences as you describe its a good bet your source does not support the low impedance aspect of the balanced line system. You might see also if it supports AES48; if not, you'll find that the interconnect cables themselves have as much or more effect on the resulting 'sound'. Its sort of akin to placing too much weight in the rear of a car so the front wheels have little authority, or having a tiny rudder on a boat, allowing wind and waves to overpower it.

 

[MarcelNL]

In the old days, prior to common use of XLRs, balanced connections were executed by the use of barrier strips with screw terminals. To really do that right, the spade or ring lug used in such a connection should be crimped properly to the wire.

However the whole thing is solved rather easily if the source driving the balanced connection is low impedance and able to drive a 1000 to 2000 Ohm load. Quite simply, any issues with the connection are swamped by the current. That is how they did it in the old days again but the load impedance was actually 600 Ohms. Microphones often used a 150 Ohm input impedance at the microphone preamp.

If you are getting sonic differences as you describe its a good bet your source does not support the low impedance aspect of the balanced line system. You might see also if it supports AES48; if not, you'll find that the interconnect cables themselves have as much or more effect on the resulting 'sound'. Its sort of akin to placing too much weight in the rear of a car so the front wheels have little authority, or having a tiny rudder on a boat, allowing wind and waves to overpower it.

I am aware how balanced came about and what it can do, the results I described were not in a balanced system, I just like to avoid hiccups that I know to exist...f.e. similar to not cleaning solder flux materials because its known they can slowy eat away the metal.


My source is low impedance at 12.5Ohms and it's quite capable of a couple of K Ohm.
Perhaps I just need to drop XLR and design my own terminal and indeed crimp wire to the lugs used, just makes for a one trick pony system not capable of readily connecting to anything else but that's fine with me.

https://app.aws.org/wj/supplement/WJ_1980_10_s289.pdf

 

[Solypsa]

Perhaps I just need to drop XLR and design my own terminal and indeed crimp wire to the lugs used, just makes for a one trick pony system not capable of readily connecting to anything else but that's fine with me.

By the sounds of it your whole system is custom so will fit the vibe. Can't wait to see what you develop!

 

[MarcelNL]

By the sounds of it your whole system is custom so will fit the vibe. Can't wait to see what you develop!

yeah that is true!

for now the amps are done but for some tweaks, last one is to rewire the input transformer to balanced....
a G2 Anode EL519, making it a ~2 Watt mesh triode with one tube and a mercury rectifier with lots of iron.
Sounds far beyond what I've ever heard, which includes some exotic stuff.

next in line is a dual Xeon server, first impression with fans blaring was very good...last in line the final 'Trionor' build, three 13" full ranges per channel in a front loaded horn in a huge baffle.

 

[CKKeung]

Not well-known brands but they are really good.
Made in Taiwan.
The ATL is not cheap but is one of the best!
AECO is very nicely designed and made but affordable.

XLRETPSTEREO

High End Audio Connectors

aeco, a new brand created in 2010 by AEC Connectors Co., Ltd.. Leverages 30 years of manufacturing and development experience, to meet end consumers' demands for High-End quality with superb technology. And offering 100% Taiwan-made products.

www.aeco.tw

 

[DasguteOhr]

yeah that is true!

for now the amps are done but for some tweaks, last one is to rewire the input transformer to balanced....
a G2 Anode EL519, making it a ~2 Watt mesh triode with one tube and a mercury rectifier with lots of iron.
Sounds far beyond what I've ever heard, which includes some exotic stuff.

next in line is a dual Xeon server, first impression with fans blaring was very good...last in line the final 'Trionor' build, three 13" full ranges per channel in a front loaded horn in a huge baffle.

I would switch to tuchel 3-pin , especially if I built my own amplifiers. Extremely reliable contact can be screwed to the housing. 110% contact safe

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Entdecken Sie Tuchel Stecker und Einbaubuchsen dreipolig unbenutzt in der großen Auswahl bei eBay. Kostenlose Lieferung für viele Artikel!

www.ebay.de

 

[MarcelNL]

I'm going for something out of the box, also just because I can
It'll also allow me to quickly audition cables, and play with shielding vs unshielded until I reach an end point and then I'll think about a permanent option...as I reckon at home the shield is not really needed and mostly unshielded cable ends up sounding better..

 

[Atmasphere]

I reckon at home the shield is not really needed and mostly unshielded cable ends up sounding better..

This statement is false.

In a balanced line system, the shield does not carry any audio current (unless the balanced line standard is being ignored). Because it does not carry any audio, the system is immune to ground loops. Further, the construction of the cable other than it must be a twisted pair and a shield, is overall less critical than it would be if audio return current were in the shield.

Think of the balanced line system as an exotic cable system where the sending and receiving equipment does the heavy lifting rather than the cable. As a result the cable need not be expensive. The shield helps since it is possible to get impingement on the cable that can exceed the Common Mode Rejection Ratio of the input! If it really sounds better with no shield, that is pointing to a problem in the assciated equipment (such as a design flaw or the standard not being supported) and is nothing to do with the cable at all.

 

[MarcelNL]

This statement is false.

In a balanced line system, the shield does not carry any audio current (unless the balanced line standard is being ignored). Because it does not carry any audio, the system is immune to ground loops. Further, the construction of the cable other than it must be a twisted pair and a shield, is overall less critical than it would be if audio return current were in the shield.

Think of the balanced line system as an exotic cable system where the sending and receiving equipment does the heavy lifting rather than the cable. As a result the cable need not be expensive. The shield helps since it is possible to get impingement on the cable that can exceed the Common Mode Rejection Ratio of the input! If it really sounds better with no shield, that is pointing to a problem in the assciated equipment (such as a design flaw or the standard not being supported) and is nothing to do with the cable at all.

I respectfully disagree...

The statement that IME shielding makes cables often sound dull is my own observation, some shielding can be benificial but that is not the braided stuff cable makers seem to prefer. I love the shielding in the ground power cable to the shed, a.o. it helps prevent inadvertedly cutting through it with a spade but for most audio purposes I'll gladly do without.

That a balanced system is cable independent I find hard to believe, it's not as if the material the signal is passed on is unimportant. That ill effects brought on the BOTH parts of the balanced cable might cancel each other is clear and I see benefits in that but in real life things often are not as symmetrical.
Ultimately I expect that sound quality will remain better if there is less harm done through the cable, also in a balanced system.

 

[Atmasphere]

I respectfully disagree...

The statement that IME shielding makes cables often sound dull is my own observation, some shielding can be benificial but that is not the braided stuff cable makers seem to prefer. I love the shielding in the ground power cable to the shed, a.o. it helps prevent inadvertedly cutting through it with a spade but for most audio purposes I'll gladly do without.

That a balanced system is cable independent I find hard to believe, it's not as if the material the signal is passed on is unimportant. That ill effects brought on the BOTH parts of the balanced cable might cancel each other is clear and I see benefits in that but in real life things often are not as symmetrical.
Ultimately I expect that sound quality will remain better if there is less harm done through the cable, also in a balanced system.

If this is your experience, it indicates that the equipment you were using when you made that observation didn't support the balanced line system, which I outlined in my post just above. What I didn't point out in that post is that if your equipment is balanced, but does not support the standard, then many of the benefits of balanced line operation are not realized. So you start to hear differences between cables, might have problems with ground loops and the setup may not sound any better than single-ended. In your case, if shielding results in dullness, its quite possible that the capacitance of the cable cannot be swamped by the source driving it. That really shouldn't happen in a balanced line system.

FWIW, a great deal of the 'high end audio' balanced products we've seen over the last 35 years or so (FWIW, we the first to offer balanced line products for home stereo use on an on-going basis, back in the 1980s) don't support the balanced line standards. I don't know if this is out of ignorance or simply that the standards were/are being ignored but that really doesn't matter.

 

[MarcelNL]

My observation was not on a balanced system, however it make me want to see if the same applies to balanced.

 

[Atmasphere]

My observation was not on a balanced system, however it make me want to see if the same applies to balanced.

Oh! Apples and oranges. The shield of single-ended cables is well-known to roll off the highs. This is why 10 feet or so is often considered the length limit.

With balanced line its an entirely different situation!

 

[MarcelNL]

step one is taken, I changed the input transformer connections to balanced and must say I'm impressed with the result...the amp was fast and organic to begin with but it has transformed to a next level speed and presence I've never heard before (except for a really flea powered mesh tube amp with approx 0.3W output).

So now for the experiment with wire....first I'll replace the Mogami XLR with regular XLR plugs and some nice wire, if that proves to be worthwile I'll go balls to the wall.

 

[DaveC]

The shield of single-ended cables is well-known to roll off the highs. This is why 10 feet or so is often considered the length limit.

This is just wrong, sorry. Do the math at least!

Shields on BOTH RCA and XLR have other effects that might sound like rolled-off highs, but that's not what's happening in a vast majority of situations.

Your beliefs about how XLR cables don't matter is absolutely not the case either.

 

[DaveC]

step one is taken, I changed the input transformer connections to balanced and must say I'm impressed with the result...the amp was fast and organic to begin with but it has transformed to a next level speed and presence I've never heard before (except for a really flea powered mesh tube amp with approx 0.3W output).

So now for the experiment with wire....first I'll replace the Mogami XLR with regular XLR plugs and some nice wire, if that proves to be worthwile I'll go balls to the wall.

Having some even order distortion canceled out can definitely have that effect, but it's also possible to get a similar effect using an active plate load similar to the White follower or Broski's preamp/headphone amp designs with single ended.

IMO, balanced is solving a problem that doesn't exist in most home systems, and it increases complexity and cost. The only good reason I can see for going balanced is the fact all DAC chips are and hence many DACs have better XLR outs vs single ended.

On cables, a simple experiment would be to make a simple twisted pair using solid-core ~24g UPOCC silver/teflon, and another with whatever copper wire is easily available. Spacing the shield away from the signal wires will reduce the negative effects of shielding. I'd go with either Neutrik for a basic option or Furutech NCF for a high end option on plugs. The new NCF XLRs are a huge improvement in all aspects of design... set screws instead of solder, pure copper instead of alloy and hollow pins with damping material in them. The NCF material reduces noise on top of that.

 

[Atmasphere]

This is just wrong, sorry. Do the math at least!

Shields on BOTH RCA and XLR have other effects that might sound like rolled-off highs, but that's not what's happening in a vast majority of situations.

Your beliefs about how XLR cables don't matter is absolutely not the case either.

I did the math.

10 feet is the commonly accepted maximum length. You can go longer of course but the ice gets progressively thinner; much depends on the output impedance of the preamp and the input impedance of the amp. This is such a well-known aspect of single-ended cables that its not really up for debate. if you wish to fly in the face of this you do so with considerable headwind.

If a balanced line system is set up right, the cables can go some very long distances- our preamp can drive 100 feet with no problem at all; I've seen microphone signals sent longer than that with no degradation; this was done routinely in the 1950s and since. This fact about balanced line is extremely well known and as you should know is what made long distance phone calls and inter-continental phone calls possible. Clearly the shield is not affecting the signal in the way that it does in single-ended cables! Otherwise the golden age of stereo in the 1950s would never have been possible. Well- that and the introduction of the Westerex 3D cutter heard for LP mastering...

If you find that one XLR cable is sounding different from another, the simple fact is the equipment being used with it does not support the balanced line standard, which has two aspects (how its connected and impedance), both of which are largely ignored in high end audio. Hence audiophiles hear differences. That shouldn't happen, but out of ignorance or the choice to ignore the standard, it does.

IOW your last statement is false. I do not have a belief on the matter. Knowledge is fundamentally different from believing.