Building a system around ROON for local/ripped/downloaded files and making it better than CD playback...

[NigelB]

I only stream (local and Qobuz/Tidal).
3 years ago I embarked on the mission to make it sound indistinguishable from an Esoteric transport I have access too, playing SACDs.
I forgot what I knew about power, electronics and network, and simply tested everything I could (It was a lot, as I have friends who are Hi Fi dealers and do a lot of trade ins). Now I reached a level that on most cases, I cannot distinguish between the Esoteric SACD, local files and streaming. If it helps, this is my current set up:

1) Inverse EtherRegen with external LPSU to convert ethernet to single mode, low loss optical fiber, using Finisar SFP.
2) SOtM switch with external LPS and fed with Mutec clock and Finisar SFP
3) Telegartner Switch with Initio LPS
4) Melco N1 (Streamer/end point / NAS), using another Finisar SFP, and fed by Mutec clock and USB output to DDC.
5) NUC with ROCK (Core) with LPS and connected to the SOtM swith through low loss fiber, LPS for the converter and Finisar SFPs
6) From the USB output of the Melco, go to Audio-GD 2120HE DDC (Digital to digital converter), feb by the Mutec clock, output in I2S
7) R2R DAC Audio-GD R7Mk3, also fed by the Mutec clock and the I2S.

Interconnects by Tubulus Concentus (Clock, I2S, USB, XLR).

You may say I spent $30K building this network, and they would be correct. OTOH, I tested several +30K USD DACs in my network without the expensive switches and clock, and the $4K DAC with my network is scarily very very close. So there you go. Spend $30K on your network, and enjoy all the streaming. Spend +$30K on a DAC (that will be outdated in a couple years). Spend $30K on a super high end transport, and have to buy CDs from now on.

I don't mean this is the ultimate network, but it is what worked the best sound for me, so far. I am very happy I spent the money on the network, improving step by step, not all at once. Added bonus: The NUC after going thru the fiber and the two switches, is finally able to up-sample (Roon DSP) without generating noise, hence actually improving the sound quality of the system. The DAC just plays in NOS mode. Beautiful!

For reference the rest of my system is and integrated Absolare Signature, Magico A5 speakers, MIT speaker cable and soon upgrading to Crystal power cables.

The boundary is perhaps negotiable but personally I'd only actually count (1) to (3) as your network.

 

[vgmbpty]

The boundary is perhaps negotiable but personally I'd only actually count (1) to (3) as your network.

I get what you mean. In my journey I realized that there were significant things I could do to improve the sound within the digital domain, beyond the ethernet network, so I kept pilling up tweaks and upgrades until it got me where I wanted.

 

[poonbean]

If there’s a room core thread, pls lmk bc I can’t find it.

I’m looking for a v good room core, I’m not streaming nor storing and serving files to my dac, just using Qobuz and my dac has Ethernet input.

in short, what are some of the better Roon Core devices?
I currently have the Grimm mu1 bc it had the right output and was a nice step up from the m5, but I now don’t need all of its capabilities. Thinking I could save a few $s and downsize to the Innuos Zen if it’s room core abilities are comparable, or ….?
Thx for the help!

 

[Blackmorec]

I only stream (local and Qobuz/Tidal).
3 years ago I embarked on the mission to make it sound indistinguishable from an Esoteric transport I have access too, playing SACDs.
I forgot what I knew about power, electronics and network, and simply tested everything I could (It was a lot, as I have friends who are Hi Fi dealers and do a lot of trade ins). Now I reached a level that on most cases, I cannot distinguish between the Esoteric SACD, local files and streaming. If it helps, this is my current set up:

1) Inverse EtherRegen with external LPSU to convert ethernet to single mode, low loss optical fiber, using Finisar SFP.
2) SOtM switch with external LPS and fed with Mutec clock and Finisar SFP
3) Telegartner Switch with Initio LPS
4) Melco N1 (Streamer/end point / NAS), using another Finisar SFP, and fed by Mutec clock and USB output to DDC.
5) NUC with ROCK (Core) with LPS and connected to the SOtM swith through low loss fiber, LPS for the converter and Finisar SFPs
6) From the USB output of the Melco, go to Audio-GD 2120HE DDC (Digital to digital converter), feb by the Mutec clock, output in I2S
7) R2R DAC Audio-GD R7Mk3, also fed by the Mutec clock and the I2S.

Interconnects by Tubulus Concentus (Clock, I2S, USB, XLR).

You may say I spent $30K building this network, and they would be correct. OTOH, I tested several +30K USD DACs in my network without the expensive switches and clock, and the $4K DAC with my network is scarily very very close. So there you go. Spend $30K on your network, and enjoy all the streaming. Spend +$30K on a DAC (that will be outdated in a couple years). Spend $30K on a super high end transport, and have to buy CDs from now on.

I don't mean this is the ultimate network, but it is what worked the best sound for me, so far. I am very happy I spent the money on the network, improving step by step, not all at once. Added bonus: The NUC after going thru the fiber and the two switches, is finally able to up-sample (Roon DSP) without generating noise, hence actually improving the sound quality of the system. The DAC just plays in NOS mode. Beautiful!

For reference the rest of my system is and integrated Absolare Signature, Magico A5 speakers, MIT speaker cable and soon upgrading to Crystal power cables.

What comes upstream of your EtherRegen? There is a lot of upgrade potential in a. Splitting off your household network traffic from audio traffic as early on the network as possible. B. Using an audio-‘friendly’ router with low noise chip-set like the Broadcom c. Powering your modem and router with a good quality supply. D. Isolating your entire network from vibration e. optimising the network cabling

Just BTW, Roon generates a lot of network traffic also during file replay. A device like the Innuos Zenith which includes the Sense music management SW virtually shuts down network comms during music replay and you can hear the difference, especially on a heavily optimised network like yours

 

[Bones13]

I have great results from my chain.

1) cable modem + ROCK on fanless NUC plugged into switch run by EdgeLite router.
2) Fiber Ethernet to UpTone Audio etherRegen
3) Triode WireLabs Ethernet cable
4) DAC with built in streamer (was Bricasti, now MSB Premier)

After a while with an ultraRendu, I’ll never USB to DAC from my main computer again (well, except for YouTube)

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I have great results from my chain.

1) cable modem + ROCK on fanless NUC plugged into switch run by EdgeLite router.
2) Fiber Ethernet to UpTone Audio etherRegen
3) Triode WireLabs Ethernet cable
4) DAC with built in streamer (was Bricasti, now MSB Premier)

After a while with an ultraRendu, I’ll never USB to DAC from my main computer again (well, except for YouTube)

Why use a computer at all with so many audiophile grade servers and streamers available now days? I only use a MS Surface to interface with my Innuos Zenith and it is connected to my network via CAT8 no Wi-Fi connection or enabled devices in my listening room.

 

[Swisstrips]

Why use a computer at all with so many audiophile grade servers and streamers available now days? I only use a MS Surface to interface with my Innuos Zenith and it is connected to my network via CAT8 no Wi-Fi connection or enabled devices in my listening room.

Clarify "use a computer at all" ?
- He's using roon/nuc server connected to network (fiber isolation) > network DAC (roon endpoint).
- Your using Innuos server connected to network > presumably to a DAC (usb or network or similar)?

Seems pretty similar, I must be overlooking something.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Clarify "use a computer at all" ?
- He's using roon/nuc server connected to network (fiber isolation) > network DAC (roon endpoint).
- Your using Innuos server connected to network > presumably to a DAC (usb or network or similar)?

Seems pretty similar, I must be overlooking something.

Come on man, Desk Top or Lap Top. Non audio configuration.

 

[Swisstrips]

Come on man, Desk Top or Lap Top. Non audio configuration.

As I said, I must be overlooking something - still not following. Are you referring to the control app?

I replied to your statement:
"Why use a computer at all with so many audiophile grade servers and streamers available now days?"

Then you stated:
"Come on man, Desk Top or Lap Top. Non audio configuration"

Maybe I need another cup of coffee.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

As I said, I must be overlooking something - still not following. Are you referring to the control app?

I replied to your statement:
"Why use a computer at all with so many audiophile grade servers and streamers available now days?"

Then you stated:
"Come on man, Desk Top or Lap Top. Non audio configuration"

Maybe I need another cup of coffee.

Maybe but I was referring to using a Desktop or Laptop device for streaming/server rather than a audio intended server . If I still had a Roon server I would be running J Play or other control app. I am a huge Innuos fan boy

 

[Swisstrips]

Maybe but I was referring to using a Desktop or Laptop device for streaming/server rather than a audio intended server . If I still had a Roon server I would be running J Play or other control app. I am a huge Innuos fan boy

Ah, gotcha

 

[Bones13]

My main points for a Roon System:

1) some “computer” running Roon Core. I happen to use a headless NUC upon which I installed the free ROCK operating system. One could also just use your desktop or laptop for this purpose, and perhaps not be editing large video files while doing critical listening to your system. You can repurpose an old computer, or build/buy a stronger computer for DSP or some resampling work to use for the server function.

2) Ensure that you have a solid Ethernet system in your location. Roon is a very busy system, and I have experienced snags before. I’m not knowledgeable enough to know if a VLAN, or even just a dedicated switch off of your router would help the system. Years ago I installed a timed switch that resets my modem & router at 3am. Start with quality Cat 5+ cables.

3) Use some “computer“ to feed USB into your DAC. EtherRendu, built in streamer in the DAC, DIY built RaspberryPi streamer, on up to dedicated streaming computers from the industry. some of these will stress low power, and low complexity in order not put noise in the stream, some of the others use more expensive measures to prevent noise. Both have merits, and proponents.

Get that all working well. Then spend any extra time-energy-$ on trying different cables, linear power supplies, optical cables, vibration control, EM radiation control, (this list goes on forever, right, and is on of the big hobby points in this field)

Other alternatives

There are custom built “computers” with nice power supplies, and specially designed USB out ports to be a single device server+ streamer. Some even sport small display screens, and CDROM drives to import directly from CD into the file system. (These come in low priced to very high priced variants)

One of the more interesting things I have seen lately are the single box with 2 ”computers” inside. One doing server duty, and the other being used as a streamer. (internal direct Ethernet connection?)

 

[orange55]

I only stream (local and Qobuz/Tidal).
3 years ago I embarked on the mission to make it sound indistinguishable from an Esoteric transport I have access too, playing SACDs.
I forgot what I knew about power, electronics and network, and simply tested everything I could (It was a lot, as I have friends who are Hi Fi dealers and do a lot of trade ins). Now I reached a level that on most cases, I cannot distinguish between the Esoteric SACD, local files and streaming. If it helps, this is my current set up:

1) Inverse EtherRegen with external LPSU to convert ethernet to single mode, low loss optical fiber, using Finisar SFP.
2) SOtM switch with external LPS and fed with Mutec clock and Finisar SFP
3) Telegartner Switch with Initio LPS
4) Melco N1 (Streamer/end point / NAS), using another Finisar SFP, and fed by Mutec clock and USB output to DDC.
5) NUC with ROCK (Core) with LPS and connected to the SOtM swith through low loss fiber, LPS for the converter and Finisar SFPs
6) From the USB output of the Melco, go to Audio-GD 2120HE DDC (Digital to digital converter), feb by the Mutec clock, output in I2S
7) R2R DAC Audio-GD R7Mk3, also fed by the Mutec clock and the I2S.

Interconnects by Tubulus Concentus (Clock, I2S, USB, XLR).

You may say I spent $30K building this network, and they would be correct. OTOH, I tested several +30K USD DACs in my network without the expensive switches and clock, and the $4K DAC with my network is scarily very very close. So there you go. Spend $30K on your network, and enjoy all the streaming. Spend +$30K on a DAC (that will be outdated in a couple years). Spend $30K on a super high end transport, and have to buy CDs from now on.

I don't mean this is the ultimate network, but it is what worked the best sound for me, so far. I am very happy I spent the money on the network, improving step by step, not all at once. Added bonus: The NUC after going thru the fiber and the two switches, is finally able to up-sample (Roon DSP) without generating noise, hence actually improving the sound quality of the system. The DAC just plays in NOS mode. Beautiful!

For reference the rest of my system is and integrated Absolare Signature, Magico A5 speakers, MIT speaker cable and soon upgrading to Crystal power cables.

This is interesting and I have two of the SOtM switches in my set-up and with the various array of power supplies and fibre. One thing I would recommend you try and that is swapping out the Finisar for the CISCO SFP-10G-AOC1M Active Optical Cable (AOC). I did this about a year ago and this brought about a very nice improvement after reading about it on another forum whereby a few people had also made the switch.

For me and the others it opened up the sound stage a little more and was a little more refined, but also more detailed but not smoothing things over. However, the most noticeable things was the removal of sibilance. I was not alone in hearing this, and it was not as though the system was unbalanced before, but removing it highlighted it was there in the first place.

I run mine between the two SOtM switches, others I have seen run there's from the EtherRegen to either another switch or direct into the renderer.

You can often get the CISCO on eBay for around $20 ish second hand, don't be put off they are $350 new.

 

[ssfas]

I have close to the Roon recommended NAS set-up, a QNAP TS-473 running Roon Server, centre right. They recommend 2 x 2TB SSD and 2 x 6TB SATA. As this server is not principally for Roon, I just use an external SATA network drive, sitting above it, which costs about $150.

The grey box is my switch, it can power 5 access points (I have a large home network with about 90 IPs). Data goes to the streamer over fibre, so no RFI. At the other end is a battery powered media converter and, as suggested elsewhere, I use a 50cm standard uninsulated CAT 6a from BJC with plastic connectors.

As I posted elsewhere, another $100 controller box between the modem and switch will allow me to set up a VLAN so that the ports used for the streamer fibre and the music library operate independent of the rest of the network traffic.

 

[godofwealth]

One advantage of age is that you’ve seen a lot of companies come and go, technologies that once seemed like the ultimate solution that get replaced. Who knows if Roon will be around next year? I have a lifetime subscription as an early adopter and do hope they’re around forever, but don’t count on it. I have all my physical media (CDs and vinyl) accumulated over 40 years that I have no interest in ever selling or replacing. I find Roon incredibly unreliable, probably the most unreliable app on my iPhone or iPad. Every software update leaves me wondering if it will work again. Sometimes it does. Often it does not. Reboots of various endpoints and servers seems the norm not the exception. All said, I love the convenience and choice provided by Roon, Qobuz, Tidal et al., but never in a million years would I even remotely consider making these the musical foundation of my collection. Listening to music is as important to me as food and just as I would not rely solely on my local Trader Joe’s for all my grocery shopping, I would never depend on streaming services. Sure, it’s nice to use them. But I continue to assume that one day they’ll vanish, just like my playlists on Roon or Netflix keep disappearing. It’s the sign of the times. Nothing seems to have the permanence of a physical book. It’s now a link to a website that can be gone tomorrow.

 

[skinnyfla]

... everyone is talking about streaming, what I am trying to say is, that I don`t care for streaming from Qobuz and Tidal for serious listening, it`s just a debate I`m trying to understand, whether from a point of quality playback only, a computer/server based system (using Roon or any other software) can be as good as a dedicated CD Player, thus reducing digital sources to one instead of two. So you rip CDs to lossless WAV and then play them from a server instead of playing the same disc/CD from a dedicated transport... but honestly, there are sooooo many variables in computer based playback, that I am actually considering going back to a dedicated transport and just spin my CDs ;-)