Me neither
Oh I wouldn't mind Blue Fin Tuna. I'd be RICH as well as have good cholesterol !!!!!!!!!
Cable Elevators
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Me neither
Oh I wouldn't mind Blue Fin Tuna. I'd be RICH as well as have good cholesterol !!!!!!!!!
Happily I do not fear the risk of being ridiculed in this hobby. As we do not have explanations for many things in audio it is not possible to draw a firm line between the valuable and the ridicule receipts. I assume WBF is a discussion forum, not a political forum.
Triboelectric effects are due to the mechanical vibrations in the cable - we should remember that they are a feedback process, delayed in time and depending on the resonances of materials of the cables and the surfaces where the cables are laying.
Some other people claim that the differences are only due to changes in the electric field surrounding the cable - who knows?
Cable elevators have their ups and downs. Hope that doesn't qualify as "ridicule."
I'm curious; do elevator users elevate interconnects? Power cables? Or is it just a speaker cable thing?
Tim
I'm curious; do elevator users elevate interconnects? Power cables? Or is it just a speaker cable thing?
Tim
These are the second order effects that crucially need to be under control to get sound quality to a higher level. So yes, all cables are part of the mix. It's simple enough to experiment with this aspect, chap on Audio Asylum recommends experimenting with toilet paper end rolls, cardboard tubes in other words, this will give you the clues as to its value for your setup.
Frank
At the risk of also being a little ridiculed
As this is my first post here, I would like to thank Bruce B for pointing me to this forum.
Second, I would like to say I have experienced the same quieting or "blackening" of the background in my system with cable risers.
A good friend of mine works with many different plasics in thin sheet form. He told me they deal with a tremendous amount of static electricity build up in the stacked sheets of plastic. He once showed me a meter used to measure the charge in a stack of sheets ready for processing. The meter showed thousands of volts of built up charge in the sheets, at miniscule, current of course. They use ion generators to dissipate the static before use.
I reasoned the synthetic elements in our carpeted floor could well be a source of static sufficient to add noise through the speaker cables. I added risers made from a static disapative foam (I love Mcmaster-Carr) and the background indeed seemed "blacker". It certainly does help the organization and look of the cables as well.
Tracy
Hi All,
I'm not that much of a tweaker; I don't listen in a different room to the equipment or audition power cables any more, and I've never tried elevators, but I might give it a go.
Its feels like anything that's in the proximity of a signal-carrying conductor might affect sound quality, so PCBs, connectors and cables could come under scrutiny. I'm not so worried about the conductors themselves, just as long as the conenctions aren't dirty, corroded or vulnerable to vibration.
What I'm starting to focus on these days are insulators - dielectrics. Anything that falls into the electric field of the conductor can affect that field, especially if it has a high dielectric constant, like an insulator. Capacitors are the most obvious culprits, but I guess long runs of speaker cables running on or under carpet might make a difference. I'm not sure whether its the dielectric constant itself, or the quality of the dielectric that matters - the linearity, hysterisis or memory effect that is worth avoiding.
I hear people have good results with magent wire for speaker cables. This has very thin enamel insulation, and presumably minimises the volume of dielectric that falls within the E field, that's my way of thinking. I made some up, but haven't tried them yet. This points me in the direction of eliminating dielectrics as much as possible.
Garylkoh's comment that elevators make no difference with shielded speaker wires was very interesting. That stands to reason, as the shield will contain the E field. And its good to have a negative result every now and again that reinforces the theory.
What I really don't like are expensive cables and tweaks, I don't think anything more than a few blocks of wood is needed for elevation - anything to get the cable in free space. If people want to decorate with fancy products - fair enough, but that IS only decoration, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Nick
I'm not that much of a tweaker; I don't listen in a different room to the equipment or audition power cables any more, and I've never tried elevators, but I might give it a go.
Its feels like anything that's in the proximity of a signal-carrying conductor might affect sound quality, so PCBs, connectors and cables could come under scrutiny. I'm not so worried about the conductors themselves, just as long as the conenctions aren't dirty, corroded or vulnerable to vibration.
What I'm starting to focus on these days are insulators - dielectrics. Anything that falls into the electric field of the conductor can affect that field, especially if it has a high dielectric constant, like an insulator. Capacitors are the most obvious culprits, but I guess long runs of speaker cables running on or under carpet might make a difference. I'm not sure whether its the dielectric constant itself, or the quality of the dielectric that matters - the linearity, hysterisis or memory effect that is worth avoiding.
I hear people have good results with magent wire for speaker cables. This has very thin enamel insulation, and presumably minimises the volume of dielectric that falls within the E field, that's my way of thinking. I made some up, but haven't tried them yet. This points me in the direction of eliminating dielectrics as much as possible.
Garylkoh's comment that elevators make no difference with shielded speaker wires was very interesting. That stands to reason, as the shield will contain the E field. And its good to have a negative result every now and again that reinforces the theory.
What I really don't like are expensive cables and tweaks, I don't think anything more than a few blocks of wood is needed for elevation - anything to get the cable in free space. If people want to decorate with fancy products - fair enough, but that IS only decoration, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Nick
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I have got no technical explanation for this, but the Shunyata Darkfield cable elevator do make a difference on my system. I tried them below the Audience power chord "e" but i did not like the result, as they killed the dynamic. But i like the result when i put them under the Audience Au24e speaker cable, the background was darker and more details were heard, without affecting the dynamic. However, I recently changed the speaker cables to MIT and strangely I did not like the sound with the elevators under the MIT speaker cable. I have removed them since then. The darkfield elevators also brought about improvement when used under my friend NACA5 speaker cables (Naim system).
My experience is that the Shunyata Darkfield cable elevators do change the sound...Good or bad depending where you use them, what cable you use and probably your personal liking.
My experience is that the Shunyata Darkfield cable elevators do change the sound...Good or bad depending where you use them, what cable you use and probably your personal liking.
There will be a few surprised people here. Some will be surprised that any difference can be heard. Some will be surprised that a positive difference can be heard. Others will be surprised that a negative differerence was heard. You can substitue "won't believe" for "will be surprised" as well.
Unfortunately this is very much a part of the picture, whether people are surprised, don't believe or whatever. All parts of an audio system are made of materials, and these materials have properties, some of which cause wayward, audible effects on a replay setup. The world of an audio component does not stop at the border of that nicely machined box that the normal circuitry is sitting in; the real circuit of the system extends out through the cables, and the environment in which the cables find themselves -- there is no "magic" boundary, where no matter what you do on the other side of it, that it has no effect on the system.
Kee's experiences sound exactly right: doing some things make it worse, others make it better, and there is no obvious rhyme or reason for this phenomenon. But the effects are definitely there, and once a setup gets to a certain quality level they become extremely important ...
Frank
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For the record, I've got no elevators in my system ... Yet... But it's ever evolving. I do find that in Minnesota, where winters are very dry, static charges can affect amps and speaker wire that are on the ground. Static can build up in the wire and you can often hear it, especially shortly after the system is powered on. It's not at all subtle. Curiously, this only seems to happen with less expensive amplifiers. (Not to be confused with turn-on thump.)
I use CD jewel boxes to elevate my speaker cables off the floor. I do so to take the strain off the cables as the speaker terminals are half way up the back of the speakers. It also reduces the length of the cable I need. It has nothing to so with improving the sound.
I find the term "CD jewel box" to be something of a misnomer. Far from being a "jewel box," CD containers are cheap pieces of plastic crap that usually come pre-broken when you buy a CD (assuming you can still buy CDs anywhere except Amazon). Aside from that, if you use a cheap plastic piece of crap as a cable elevator, I would think it would impart a plastic sound to your speakers.
I find the term "CD jewel box" to be something of a misnomer. Far from being a "jewel box," CD containers are cheap pieces of plastic crap that usually come pre-broken when you buy a CD (assuming you can still buy CDs anywhere except Amazon). Aside from that, if you use a cheap plastic piece of crap as a cable elevator, I would think it would impart a plastic sound to your speakers.
Welcome Back! We missed your wit and passion!
I've used cable lifters off and on over the past 10 years. Mostly on. Depending on the cable and the carpet, I've noticed some relatively minor improvements
For about 7 years I've been using some Italian ceramic cable lifters that look like large pawns for a chess board.
So last year, after reading a number of posts about Shunyata Dark Field v2 cable lifters, I gave them a try. I was rather surprised that over the course of the next few days I realized several nice and clearly audible gains.
Well, that got me to thinking. Since my first love is vibration control and realizing that wire vibrates when passing through it, I dug out of storage some 4" x 4" x 24" acoustic foam squares. Using box cutters I cut 2 parallel 1/2" deep slits through all foam squares, laid them on the floor, and buried my tiny Audio Tekne speaker cables into the slits I cut.
Over the next 5 days I realized a handful of improvements that more than doubled the gains I attained with the Dark Field v2's.
The Dark Field v2's are quite good and I would highly recommend them, even though I sold mine for something better. And though I can speculate why my custom lifters work well, looking at the design of the Dark Field v2's I can't really offer an explanation.
I've attached a pic of my new custom lifters. I'm sure I could extract even more improvements if I gave this any further thought using superior materials, etc.
For about 7 years I've been using some Italian ceramic cable lifters that look like large pawns for a chess board.
So last year, after reading a number of posts about Shunyata Dark Field v2 cable lifters, I gave them a try. I was rather surprised that over the course of the next few days I realized several nice and clearly audible gains.
Well, that got me to thinking. Since my first love is vibration control and realizing that wire vibrates when passing through it, I dug out of storage some 4" x 4" x 24" acoustic foam squares. Using box cutters I cut 2 parallel 1/2" deep slits through all foam squares, laid them on the floor, and buried my tiny Audio Tekne speaker cables into the slits I cut.
Over the next 5 days I realized a handful of improvements that more than doubled the gains I attained with the Dark Field v2's.
The Dark Field v2's are quite good and I would highly recommend them, even though I sold mine for something better. And though I can speculate why my custom lifters work well, looking at the design of the Dark Field v2's I can't really offer an explanation.
I've attached a pic of my new custom lifters. I'm sure I could extract even more improvements if I gave this any further thought using superior materials, etc.
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