Caelin, what's your view on ethernet cables?

[stevebythebay]

Thanks for both of your responses. I too have been through numerous cables. Audioquest Vodka and lately Wireworld. Each seems to take differing roads. Cat 7 or Cat 8 or in Shunyata's case Cat 6a. Various approaches to shielding and separation of electrical lines (WW flat) and materials. And of course the other goodies that Caelin has devised.

My current configuration:

Roon Nucleus -> Wireworld Starlight 8 (1st gen) -> Transparent TPM -> WW Starlight 8 -> Cisco 2960 switch -> WW Platinum Starlight 8 (1st gen) -> dCS Upsampler

[The Transparent device takes noise to ground https://www.transparentcable.com/co...protection/products/plug-in-network-protector ]

Only issue today is the connector on the Wireworld (Metz) does not cleanly lock into the Roon Nucleus. Likely due to the narrow channel in the case.

Will get my hands on a Sigma to try out. I'd wait for the new Uptone EtherREGEN switch for testing, but I'm hoping my current switch is sufficient to reveal differences.

 

[stevebythebay]

Well I finally got my hands on a pair of the new Ethernet cables to try in my system. Put the Sigma in where the WireWorld Platinum Starlight lives. Sounds better. However not quite what I’d hoped for. However, knowing that my upstream cable, the WireWorld Starlight 8, is of a different design (Cat 8 shielded), might be limiting, or worse “Incongruent” with the Shunyata design, I put in the Alpha in its place (between the Roon Nucleus player and Cisco 2960 switch). Suddenly everything gelled. Lower noise floor, greater focus, wider soundstage, more impact, etc. The speed/timing/coherence really show up with all percussive instruments. Needless to say, I’ve placed an order with my dealer for a pair of Sigmas.

 

[Kumi]

Well I finally got my hands on a pair of the new Ethernet cables to try in my system. Put the Sigma in where the WireWorld Platinum Starlight lives. Sounds better. However not quite what I’d hoped for. However, knowing that my upstream cable, the WireWorld Starlight 8, is of a different design (Cat 8 shielded), might be limiting, or worse “Incongruent” with the Shunyata design, I put in the Alpha in its place (between the Roon Nucleus player and Cisco 2960 switch). Suddenly everything gelled. Lower noise floor, greater focus, wider soundstage, more impact, etc. The speed/timing/coherence really show up with all percussive instruments. Needless to say, I’ve placed an order with my dealer for a pair of Sigmas.

Hi, Any updated comments for Alpha and Sigma ethernet cables?

Thanks

 

[stevebythebay]

I’m still awaiting these. Seems the success that Shunyata has been experiencing of late has slowed the overall process of delivering products to customers. It’s been about 3 weeks since my dealer placed the order. Hoping they arrive soon.

 

[MtnHam]

Carlin:

My Roon Nucleus+ is 75' away from my music room where my Lumin X-1 is located. The Nucleus sits next to the Comcast supplied router and a switch. A 75' run of generic Cat 6 cable runs through the wall on the outside of the building between the two rooms. The terminations must be done as the last step, thus making Uber Expensive Ethernet cables out of the question.

In this situation what would be the best choice in ethernet cable?

 

[kennyb123]

Carlin:

My Roon Nucleus+ is 75' away from my music room where my Lumin X-1 is located. The Nucleus sits next to the Comcast supplied router and a switch. A 75' run of generic Cat 6 cable runs through the wall on the outside of the building between the two rooms. The terminations must be done as the last step, thus making Uber Expensive Ethernet cables out of the question.

In this situation what would be the best choice in ethernet cable?

I’m hoping that what matters most is the final few feet to our streamers.

My home was wired with Ethernet when it was built. A very long run travels a long distance from the wiring closet to my listening room. The wall jack is about 4 meters from my equipment rack. I heard a nice improvement by only upgrading the last 4m run of cable - using Wireworld Chroma.

I also got to try a 4m run of WW Starlight. There was an improvement but it in no way did it justify the expense. Diminishing returns seems to kick in quickly for the longer lengths.

At one point I had a Paul Pang switch with an improved clock. For the last meter between the streamer and the switch I used WW Starlight with Chroma still feeding the switch. That 1m Starlight made an improvement that very much justified the expense.

My plan is to next add an EtherREGEN. Between that and the streamer I’ll use one of the Shunyata Ethernet cables.

 

[ken6217]

Carlin:

My Roon Nucleus+ is 75' away from my music room where my Lumin X-1 is located. The Nucleus sits next to the Comcast supplied router and a switch. A 75' run of generic Cat 6 cable runs through the wall on the outside of the building between the two rooms. The terminations must be done as the last step, thus making Uber Expensive Ethernet cables out of the question.

In this situation what would be the best choice in ethernet cable?

Can't you move everything near each other so you can have a short run of ethernet cables and then have a long run of coax into the router?

 

[Indy]

I’m still awaiting these. Seems the success that Shunyata has been experiencing of late has slowed the overall process of delivering products to customers. It’s been about 3 weeks since my dealer placed the order. Hoping they arrive soon.

I am also waiting. In my case, I ordered 2 weeks ago.

 

[GuillaumeB]

I’m still awaiting these. Seems the success that Shunyata has been experiencing of late has slowed the overall process of delivering products to customers. It’s been about 3 weeks since my dealer placed the order. Hoping they arrive soon.

Unfortunately there are lots of delays due to the factory experiencing very high volumes of orders of Venom NR (something like 600 were ordered in one month alone!), Denali V2 and of course the new ethernet cables. I understand that they have doubled production staff in the last few months in order to meet demand. There is some light at the end of the tunnel as lead times are starting to shorten but it will be a little while before they are back to a 2 week max turnaround.

Cheers,

Guillaume

 

[MtnHam]

Can't you move everything near each other so you can have a short run of ethernet cables and then have a long run of coax into the router?

Rerouting the incoming broadband service would entail working at the top of a 20' extension ladder (2nd story), on a sloping driveway. Additionally, it would place the modem/router at the front of the building, instead of at the center where it serves the extremes well. This is a 1910 San Francisco Edwardian, not your typical suburban home.
The music room is at the front of the building.

 

[pleroma]

Unfortunately there are lots of delays due to the factory experiencing very high volumes of orders of Venom NR (something like 600 were ordered in one month alone!), Denali V2 and of course the new ethernet cables. I understand that they have doubled production staff in the last few months in order to meet demand. There is some light at the end of the tunnel as lead times are starting to shorten but it will be a little while before they are back to a 2 week max turnaround.

Cheers,

Guillaume

Guillaume,

Thanks for the informative posts. I use Sigma throughout, and am waiting for the new Cat 6 between my server/JCAT NET card and the MSB Renderer. I'm also considering replacing the run between my SOtM switch and the server, which passes control commands and music from my NAS. I currently use Audioquest Diamond to the MSB, and Audioquest Vodka from the switch to the server. Did you compare AQ Diamond to the Sigma?

 

[GuillaumeB]

Guillaume,

Thanks for the informative posts. I use Sigma throughout, and am waiting for the new Cat 6 between my new server/JCAT NET card and the MSB Renderer. I'm also considering replacing the run between my SOtM switch and the server, which passes control commands and music from my NAS. I currently use Audioquest Diamond to the MSB, and Audioquest Vodka from the switch to the server. Did you compare AQ Diamond to the Sigma?

Hi there,

I have a couple of AQ Diamonds here and they have been my references for many years. I would say that the Venom Ethernet compares very favourably. Sigma is a whole new level and I doubt there is much out there that comes close, it’s a massive improvement over other cables in my arsenal. Many are quite shocked when they hear it.

Cheers,

Guillaume

 

[pleroma]

Hi there,

I have a couple of AQ Diamonds here and they have been my references for many years. I would say that the Venom Ethernet compares very favourably. Sigma is a whole new level and I doubt there is much out there that comes close, it’s a massive improvement over other cables in my arsenal. Many are quite shocked when they hear it.

Cheers,

Guillaume

I recall in another forum there was concern about shielding causing ground loops (though in fairness to AQ they connect only one end). I was pleased to see Caelin stayed away from it. However, does it not raise other questions about potential interference?

 

[GuillaumeB]

I recall in another forum there was concern about shielding causing ground loops (though in fairness to AQ they connect only one end). I was pleased to see Caelin stayed away from it. However, does it not raise other questions about potential interference?

Usually EMI/RFI is common mode noise. Both the Alpha and Sigma Ethernet cables feature Shunyata custom-made common mode filter technology: CMode modules. Then you have the twisted pair geometry of the cables which will reject noise too. The Sigma version features the top of the range Telegärtner MFP8 connector with strain relief, this also provides 360º shielding.

The first thing you notice with the Sigma Ethernet is the noise floor dropping substantially revealing more detail.

Cheers,

Guillaume

 

[stevebythebay]

Guillaume: have you found any significant issues with using other Ethernet cables in series with the new Shunyata's?

Current setup is Roon Nucleus -> WireWorld Starlight 8 -> Transparent PNP -> Starlight -> Cisco 2960 switch -> AudioQuest Vodka -> PNP -> Starlight -> dCS Upsampler (the PNP from Transparent was designed to be a surge protector but had a happy side effect of reducing line noise due to some circuitry they put in).

When I finally get the Sigma's they may obviate the need for using the PNP's altogether, but they really have made a big difference in my current setup. As for the other cables, I think the WireWorld are shielded designs whereas the AudioQuest is not.

 

[pleroma]

Guillaume: have you found any significant issues with using other Ethernet cables in series with the new Shunyata's?

Current setup is Roon Nucleus -> WireWorld Starlight 8 -> Transparent PNP -> Starlight -> Cisco 2960 switch -> AudioQuest Vodka -> PNP -> Starlight -> dCS Upsampler (the PNP from Transparent was designed to be a surge protector but had a happy side effect of reducing line noise due to some circuitry they put in).

When I finally get the Sigma's they may obviate the need for using the PNP's altogether, but they really have made a big difference in my current setup. As for the other cables, I think the WireWorld are shielded designs whereas the AudioQuest is not.

I've spoken to Alisdair at AQ about this in the past, and Vodka is shielded with only one end of the shielding connected. I'm not implying anything about your setup beyond making that statement, but of those besides Shunyata with whom I've spoken, I was impressed with AQ's attention to these kinds of details. Others, like JCAT, didn't seem to care.

 

[GuillaumeB]

I've spoken to Alisdair at AQ about this in the past, and Vodka is shielded with only one end of the shielding connected.

I use a combination of cables here. Including a 20M run of AQ Carbon running between office switch (AQVOX) and listening room switch (2 x SOtM). At one point I was using an excellent Entreq Primer Ethernet cable from sonicTransporter i5 to office switch. Didn’t seem to affect the ability of the Shunyata cables to do their thing. Same with the AQ Diamond at one end, didn’t stop the Sigma Ethernet at the streamer end from working well.

Over the years after a lot of experimenting I have come to the conclusion that the most important cables are the ones at the edge of the network - so the Ethernet cable that connects to the streamer (most important of them all) and the one that connects to source (so NAS, Roon Nucleus, sonicTransporter etc). In hindsight I probably wouldn’t have bothered with 20M of AQ Carbon.

Guillaume

 

[pleroma]

I use a combination of cables here. Including a 20M run of AQ Carbon running between office switch (AQVOX) and listening room switch (2 x SOtM). At one point I was using an excellent Entreq Primer Ethernet cable from sonicTransporter i5 to office switch. Didn’t seem to affect the ability of the Shunyata cables to do their thing. Same with the AQ Diamond at one end, didn’t stop the Sigma Ethernet at the streamer end from working well.

Over the years after a lot of experimenting I have come to the conclusion that the most important cables are the ones at the edge of the network - so the Ethernet cable that connects to the streamer (most important of them all) and the one that connects to source (so NAS, Roon Nucleus, sonicTransporter etc). In hindsight I probably wouldn’t have bothered with 20M of AQ Carbon.

Guillaume

I was going to make similar comments before being interrupted for breakfast . And this seems to be consistent with what Caelin has said about power cables. When addressing those who might question "how one exotic 'strand' at the end could impact the entire distribution," his response was to look at it in reverse: "it's the first n feet of cable your DAC sees."

 

[stevebythebay]

Thanks to both Guillaume and pleroma`s responses. I’d heard from my dealer that their testing of the Shunyata cables has shown exactly what Guillaume tells us: it’s at the source end and especially into the DAC (in my case Upsampler) where it’s most important.
I’ll use my two AQ Vodka’s for the other connections, though in speaking with Richard at Shunyata, he believes I may be able to avoid use of the Transparent TPM’s altogether. I’ll have to experiment with/without these, once my cables arrive, hopefully by the end of next week.

 

[pleroma]

Thanks to both Guillaume and pleroma`s responses.

Welcome. This weekend I added the SOtM switch between the cheap AT&T-supplied router and my server, because my NAS would occasionally drop out. With a fiber run from the switch and FMC to place the NAS outside my listening room, two more lengths of Cat 6 were needed for the wall-to-switch and FMC-to-NAS connections, and I just used Blue Jeans for them. The Shunyata will be for the more important runs from switch to server and from server to MSB Renderer. Later, I may work in another fiber patch and FMC to isolate the switch.

PS - Steve, nice speakers