Calling Mahler or Bruckner fans

[LL21]

I will bet your list of preferred versions will continue to change over time

Quite possibly! That said, sometimes they say your first version remains 'stuck in your head' as 'references'. After 9 different piano versions (and 3 different instrumentation versions) of Bach Goldberg Variations...i still come back to the first i ever heard...Glenn Gould '83 (i also own: Roslyn Tureck, Gavrilov, Dinnerstein, Ito Ema, Gould '51, Leonhardt, Schiff and Rosen, as well as Sitovesky, Loussier, Maisky which are totally different instrumentation)

In my case i have had a few instances where i 'never got' a piece of music based on a recommended version...but after listening to a bunch, when i found 'one' i liked, it sticks with me for a long time. In the case of Barbirolli Mahler 5th...i have no desire to look elsewhere. But after all the Penguin Guide version of the other symphonies (and i like Penguin quite often)...i was surprised not to 'get' Mahler's other work.

I really now dig Mahler across the board, and the ones in my 'ranked' post are the ones that helped me really get into Mahler very very easily. All for now...as you say, we shall see!

 

[marty]

But not even one Bernstein? Wow. Almost too much to absorb!

 

[LL21]

But not even one Bernstein? Wow. Almost too much to absorb!

I respect Bernstein tremendously. But relative to Fischer and even Barbirolli (to a lesser extent), i found Tennstedt was a bit over the edge for me, and Bernstein even more so to the point of bombastic. Now, i recognize that history tells us that Maher's symphonies are about powerful, overwhelming forces and emotions...but somehow, i am mesmerized by Fischer's versions, by Barbirolli's 5th, and by 2 of Rattles (3rd and 10th).

I actually have very little Bernstein...his Gershwin and perhaps a few others, but actually not much. I like Furtwangler, Mariss Jansons, Fischer, Gergiev, Gardiner, Suzuki (Bach) and Tughan Sokhiev (possibly my favorite conductor)...and all of them during passages of 'power', still show a hand of restraint, a contemplative approach to wielding that power...so that might be a personal preference. Bernstein uses power like a thunderclap which i respect and appreciate, but its not for me.

 

[rbbert]

I would hardly describe Bernstein's Mahler cycle on DG as "bombastic" or "powerful", perhaps more contemplative than anythng. Although I'm not aware of Celibidache ever recording any Mahler, it strikes me that Bernstein may have been trying to approach the symphonies as he thought Celi might have.

 

[LL21]

Just got this one...after reading Tony Duggan's reviews which were good to read.

 

[bonzo75]

Bernard Haitink on Mahler 1 (Titan) tonight was Wow! I enjoyed it much more than Rattle on Mahler 2, Dudamel on 5, and Daniel Harding on 9. And 2nd is usually my favorite on audio. But tonight was just phenomenal. A Mozart violin concerto at the beginning and then Mahler 1.

Based on this, hoping his B's 9th next Sunday will be phenomenal

 

[marty]

Mahler 1 is not just one of the most perfect symphonies ever written, but as a 1st symphony from a major composer, it is perhaps unequalled. Almost every composing skill in Mahler's arsenal was used in the Titan. That opening is like watching the heavens part to let light in for us mere mortals to enjoy. There are too many conductors to list who do this one well, but Bruno Walter, a long time collaborator and close friend of Mahler comes to mind. (Walter also world- premiered Mahler's 9th with the Vienna). However, a personal favorite for its combination of the reading as well as the recording is by James Judd on Harmonia Mundi, engineered by the renowned Peter McGrath in 1993. Judd is a well known, accomplished Mahlerite, although the Florida Philharmonic (now defunct) was perhaps a few players shy of "world class". Still, a truly wonderful recoding. I last heard the 1st live a few years ago with the Dallas Symphony Orchestra conducted by Japp Von Zweden at Meyerson Hall and I was knocked by his interpretive mastery of Mahler. I recall his reading as exceptional.

 

[rbbert]

And the Judd is one of the (still) relatively few that has the "Blumine" movement as an alternative (or hear both 2nd movements and extend the length of the symphony)

 

[bonzo75]

What Haitink also did is, he had mixed the LSO's string bass section in the middle - so the cellos and double bass were in the middle as well as a big on the left, while violins were both on left and right. Sounded great

 

[bonzo75]

So after a mini-exploration of listening, here is my fav list of the various Mahlers but its a superficial exploration. I own these other than 6 which i intend to order (Sanderling)

- 1: Ivan Fischer, Channel Classics (2nd: Klaus Tennstedt, Chicago Symphony Orchestra ESOTERIC SACD/CD Hybrid ESSE-90068 JAPAN)
- 2: Ivan Fischer, Channel Classics (2nd: Rattle, Simon, CBSO Chorus, Janet Baker, City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra)
- 3: Barbirolli - BBC, 2nd: Rattle
- 4: Ivan Fischer, Channel Classic (2nd: George Szell, Andrew Davis, Cleveland Orchestra, London Philharmonic Orchestra, Judith Raskin, et al.)
- 5: Sir John Barbirolli, New Philharmonia Orchestra ESOTERIC SACD/CD Hybrid ESSE-90058 JAPAN
- 6: Sanderling, St Petersburg Philharmonic...exceedingly rare!!! (2nd: Barbirolli, NPO)
- 7: Abbado: Berlin Philharmoniker
- 8: Abbado (DG), 2nd: Tennstedt & London Po (24bit - Japanese Remaster)er)
- 9: Ivan Fischer, Channel Classics (2nd: Karajan)
10: Mahler, Gustav, Rattle, Simon, EMI CLASSICS

Thanks for compiling this. Claudio Abbado's with the Lucern Festival Orchestra (where he handpicked each member of the orchestra from the orchestras the world over) is also very good SQ and fun to watch along while listening as well. The Bluray quality is great. Try the 5th

 

[LL21]

Thanks...will look into Abbado and Lucern!

 

[LL21]

Not sure if i posted this, but i really, really enjoyed these incredibly indepth 'reviews/comparisons' of many versions of all of Mahler's symphonies. Tony Duggan has 10 articles (1 for each symphony) where he reviews several recordings for each one and picks some of his clear favorites as well.

http://www.musicweb-international.com/Mahler/index.html

 

[bonzo75]

From Mahler 1, I love movement 3. I found that in the different melodies that happen in the first 4 minutes, almost all clips did a stop start, while this one had more continuity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQCHgnpCGf4

And this by Bernstein is so refreshingly different, movement 3 starts at 25th minute https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c1RDalpXuA

 

[Bachtoven]

Any thoughts on Giulini's Mahler 9th with the CSO? I'm considering the Speaker Corner remaster on LP, but at $65, I want to know it's great!

 

[marty]

Not sure if i posted this, but i really, really enjoyed these incredibly indepth 'reviews/comparisons' of many versions of all of Mahler's symphonies. Tony Duggan has 10 articles (1 for each symphony) where he reviews several recordings for each one and picks some of his clear favorites as well.

http://www.musicweb-international.com/Mahler/index.html

This is an absolutely spectacular find. Thank you very much.

 

[LL21]

Not sure if i posted this, but i really, really enjoyed these incredibly indepth 'reviews/comparisons' of many versions of all of Mahler's symphonies. Tony Duggan has 10 articles (1 for each symphony) where he reviews several recordings for each one and picks some of his clear favorites as well.

http://www.musicweb-international.com/Mahler/index.html

This is an absolutely spectacular find. Thank you very much.

Hope you get some nice recommendations out of it that you enjoy. He clearly had passion with all things Mahler, and of the Mahler recordings which i enjoy, a number were directly as a result of Tony Duggan's reviews.

 

[LL21]

The Duggan commentary is great and there's much more...

Mahler Resources

MahlerReviews.com: Find reviews of Mahler recordings by work or conductor.

gustavmahlerboard.com: Discussion forum on the life and music of Gustav Mahler.

musicweb-international.com: Excellent collection of recording reviews for each Symphony and the Rückert Lieder, plus more.

Gustav Mahler: Encyclopedia Britannica.

Collection Noël-Vallerand: Les disques Gustav Mahler, a nice collection of listings at McGill's music library

"My Time is Yet to Come" - The Symphonies of Gustav Mahler on Record

Thanks!!!

 

[marty]

I often buy classical recordings that are favorably reviewed in Gramophone, the stalwart publication that often correctly identifies recordings of legendary status. So it was with their recent review of Bruckner's 8th by a fellow named Remy Ballot with the relatively obscure Austrian Youth Orchestra on the Gramola label (99054). It was as close to a rave as I've seen written in this normally staid British publication, so I bought it enthusiastically. Well folks, don't believe everything you read. This 8th was one of the most soporific performances of Bruckner I have ever heard. It could be dispensed in lieu of 5 mg of valium for those that want to go to sleep. I then took out my trusty old Bruckner 8th by von Karajan and the Vienna on DGG (427611-2). Holy crap, now there's a conductor who was born to conduct Bruckner. This is as riveting a performance as you are ever likely to hear. Just wonderful. To give you some idea of the difference, the 3rd and 4th movements by Remy take an unbearable 66 minutes whereas Von Karajan does them in 49 minutes. Despite very good liner notes, the Remy is going to the trade-in pile while Von Karajan goes back on the shelf.

It's interesting that in Tony Duggan's massive opus review of the great Mahlerites, he does not refer to von Karajan even once! I'm not surprised. Von Karajan conducts Mahler like, well, Bruckner most of the time! For me, he fails capture the pathos and tragedy that most of the great Mahler conductors command and thus the dynamic range of the emotions he manages to get out of his players with Mahler are always somewhat stifled. Not so with Bruckner, which he darn well hits it out of the park consistently. This is surprising since both Austrian composers are associated mainly with the First Viennese School. Yet it is clear von Karajan has a deep affinity for Bruckner that he never seems to extend to Mahler. Interesting.

 

[LL21]

Hi Marty,

Wow...you've certainly taken this seriously...great stuff! I just checked in...in Mahler 6th review, Tony Duggan mentions him extremely fleetingly twice, and as you can tell from both comments, he's not particularly enamored. In his review of Mahler 6th...

"...An even more pleasant surprise awaits in the coda because Sanderling resists the temptation of rushing to the end, sticking to his tempo after the great explosion of percussion. I always think to take the coda too fast, as Karajan does for example, suggests hysteria where we need optimism. Our "hero" is still in control of events, or believes he is, and this is what Sanderling gives us..."

"...Solti is too machine-tooled and then hyper-charged to allow for darker shades to emerge. Maazel, Järvi and Von Dohnanyi deliver the notes but are largely empty vessels, all wheels and cogs but little worthwhile movement. Chailly, as so often in Mahler, is beautifully finished on the outside, but is all style and less substance. Karajan is chromium plated as usual, and that’s it...

...The best approach I believe still lies in its classical frame and its 20th century sensibility. Thomas Sanderling, Mariss Jansons,...As before, Thomas Sanderling is still the version that I personally reach for first. For now."

 

[DonH50]

SFO is having a sale and, while I've always wanted the CSO set, the discount makes The Mahler Project set pretty appealing (plus I know some of the trumpet players, at least via the 'net on the trumpet site I help moderate). Anybody have the set, what do you think?

My practice time has been slashed by work and life events, might as well listen!