Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[Mike Lavigne]

realistically recordings can improve the live experience in meaningful ways. but there are trade-offs involved. so going down this road can take you in multiple directions depending on your priorities.

very simple music in ideal circumstances favors the live experience by a wide margin, the reproduction cannot compete on almost any level. but once we leave that situation, there are plenty of variables which make reproduced music a great alternative with it's own set of advantages. from there we look at digital and where it can deliver, and compare it to analog and where it can deliver. but there are many shades of results. if we look at the big picture, we can hear that analog is less compromised in realism terms, but still digital can deliver a great alternative to the live experience.

but so many things to consider. so these things are just different from one another....not anything absolute.

 

[Another Johnson]

As noted in post #2280, I find myself back in this thread. Don’t worry … I won’t stay long.

I’ve been recovering from shoulder replacement surgery this past month. As a consequence, I’ve spent even more time than usual plunked in front of my system. I’ve given my turntables, streamers, DACs, CD, and SACD players a serious workout, sometimes extending to 20 hour days.

Regarding the Original Post’s question … I’m ready to throw my hat to the Rossini Apex. Streaming the Qobuz versions, it beats the pants off many vinyl records played on either of my two $30k level TTs. I’m ready to concede that my $30k streamer/DAC can often give a more pleasurable experience than comparably priced vinyl systems.

Both vinyl and streaming are fraught with things to go wrong. Over the years, the better one here has often been the one with fewer things gone wrong. Right now they’re both pretty awesome here. But if I’m completely honest, the Rossini Apex is the winner at least two thirds of the time.

 

[Another Johnson]

realistically recordings can improve the live experience in meaningful ways. but there are trade-offs involved. so going down this road can take you in multiple directions depending on your priorities.

very simple music in ideal circumstances favors the live experience by a wide margin, the reproduction cannot compete on almost any level. but once we leave that situation, there are plenty of variables which make reproduced music a great alternative with it's own set of advantages. from there we look at digital and where it can deliver, and compare it to analog and where it can deliver. but there are many shades of results. if we look at the big picture, we can hear that analog is less compromised in realism terms, but still digital can deliver a great alternative to the live experience.

but so many things to consider. so these things are just different from one another....not anything absolute.

How do you make a believable and natural experience more believable and natural by either analog capture or digital capture? I’m not talking about post capture processing.

The best you can hope for in capture is to not screw it up or degrade it.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

How do you make a believable and natural experience more believable and natural by either analog capture or digital capture? I’m not talking about post capture processing.

The best you can hope for in capture is to not screw it up or degrade it.

the consistency and sorting out of musical confusion a recording can deliver has value. the question is how much of the musical nuance and magic can the recording and system deliver? the analog process seems to retain more magic, but digital can get some of it too.

reproduced music delivers a package of merits that can be a great alternative. the best of live music is not a possibility, and not expected. but the weakness of live music can be bettered by reproduced music.

 

[Al M.]

FYI: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/review-audio-gd-r-7he-mk2-dac-lps-are-now-optional.1170610/

Thanks for the review. Interesting that you say there is a notable drop off in performance with streaming, compared to CD playback. This does not surprise me. Have thought about a re-clocker between CD transport and DAC? That would improve things further.

 

[andromedaaudio]

How do you make a believable and natural experience more believable and natural by either analog capture or digital capture? I’m not talking about post capture processing.

The best you can hope for in capture is to not screw it up or degrade it.

Just built a system that sounds good to your ears .

Thats the best you can do .

 

[Gregm]

How do you make a believable and natural experience more believable and natural by either analog capture or digital capture? I’m not talking about post capture processing.

You don't and many times it's not an option: a great music of music recorded in the past is not repeatable in the present.
The recording is all you have.
This is common in classical, jazz, and soon to be commonplace in rock as performers leave this world for warmer pastures.

The best you can hope for in capture is to not screw it up or degrade it.

If by capture you mean recording - OK, and in the case of many Decca recordings of the late 50s & 60s they didn't.
What I hope for, however, is to get the best out of what is available, i.e. experience as much as I can of that historical performance of Furtwangler / Satchmo / the Stones / ad lib...

the best of live music is not a possibility, and not expected.

Exactly!

 

[Gregm]

Just built a system that sounds good to your ears .

Thats the best you can do .

...and as true to the source as you can tolerate.
Amen!

 

[andromedaaudio]

...and as true to the source as you can tolerate.
Amen!

Who cares , as long as you enjoy what you hear

 

[thedudeabides]

And seriously, I do not want to be engaged in a conversation about descriptive audio language.

With all due respect to all, isn't this thread precisely that? That is the main problem with subjective discussions. Everyone has their own opinion and each individual thinks they are "right". If I am wrong, please explain. Please carry on. I enjoy the esoteric dialogue. Best

 

[thedudeabides]

I have no idea! I don't ask myself these types of question

Agreed. We have entered the stratosphere. But that is a by product of this thread. And I also have no idea how one would can answer that questions. An infentessmal amount of variables.

 

[Joe Whip]

Recordings of live music is not live music not even close really...


Regards

We can’t even capture a drum kit. Not even close.

 

[thedudeabides]

"Here's a nice digital recording, the kind of sound I'm looking for but rarely find in commercial digital releases"

True for the vast majority of pop, etc. but if you like classical and jazz recordings, there are numerous options. I would suggest you look elsewhere but, dare I say, I believe you will find more choices in the D family vs A.

 

[Audiohertz2]

realistically recordings can improve the live experience in meaningful ways. but there are trade-offs involved. so going down this road can take you in multiple directions depending on your priorities.

very simple music in ideal circumstances favors the live experience by a wide margin, the reproduction cannot compete on almost any level. but once we leave that situation, there are plenty of variables which make reproduced music a great alternative with it's own set of advantages. from there we look at digital and where it can deliver, and compare it to analog and where it can deliver. but there are many shades of results. if we look at the big picture, we can hear that analog is less compromised in realism terms, but still digital can deliver a great alternative to the live experience.

but so many things to consider. so these things are just different from one another....not anything absolute.

Agree if done correctly Analog comes the closest to sounding “Real” while digital sounds pure but less real .!

Aside there is no way nor at any time which any hifi system sounds like the real event , too many limitations firstly in the recordings and then the system..!

Go ahead and listen to a Studio Grand Piano in your listening space , it will become painfully obvious ..


Regards

 

[hopkins]

True for the vast majority of pop, etc. but if you like classical and jazz recordings, there are numerous options. I would suggest you look elsewhere but, dare I say, I believe you will find more choices in the D family vs A.

Just to be clear, I was quoting Rexp. I personally don't lose sleep over formats.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Aside there is no way nor at any time which any hifi system sounds like the real event , too many limitations firstly in the recordings and then the system..!

which i embrace. i listen 4-8 hours a day. every day, 365 days a year. no one could handle that much live music. it would wring you out. i can push things to realistic listening volumes when the mood strikes me, but my system can communicate the musical essence at volumes i can enjoy.

horses for courses. i get what i want, when and how i want it.

no quarrel with the 'live' experience. at all.

 

[Audiohertz2]

No Quarrel with the hifi experience, we are chasing the same Dragon ..



Regards

 

[Rexp]

Whatever it is that you appreciate here, it all has to do with the recording process (microphones etc...) not with the fact that the end result is available in a "digital" or "analog" format.

I still don't get why you wrote this.
Yes the sound quality is down to the recording quality and not the end result being available in digital or analog format, so what's your point?

 

[Rexp]

True for the vast majority of pop, etc. but if you like classical and jazz recordings, there are numerous options. I would suggest you look elsewhere but, dare I say, I believe you will find more choices in the D family vs A.

Can you recommend some recent Jazz releases I can try? Thanks!

 

[hopkins]

I still don't get why you wrote this.
Yes the sound quality is down to the recording quality and not the end result being available in digital or analog format, so what's your point?

Ok, let me make it clearer.

Had you written this:

"Here's a nice recording, the kind of sound I'm looking for but rarely find in commercial releases."

...instead of writing:

"Here's a nice digital recording, the kind of sound I'm looking for but rarely find in commercial digital releases."

...then I would not have replied that the format is not the issue. Understood?

If you now explain that the format is indeed not the issue, then why did you post this in an "analog vs digital" thread?