Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[wil]

This seems rather defensive, but that is not uncommon around here.

Since you haven't figured it out yet, I am looking at the arguments made in advocacy for streaming, their relative importance and consensus among streamers, the general tenor and attitude of the discussion. I have not denigrated the technology although I do not use it.

Obviously you are invested as streaming appears your only source. (At least you have posted your system. Some do not and that reduces the value of their participation, so I give you credit for that.) Is that why you feel compelled to respond, to defend your technology choice? I don't recall reading you wax rhapsodic about listening to music through it.

I give up. I’m going to ignore and focus on the constructive comments here ( some of which prefer vinyl btw).

 

[Rexp]

You either didn’t read the full article, did not comprehend it, or did not make the connection on how the distortions associated with vinyl playback impart their sound qualities on recordings with digital origin.




The science lies in the filtering and modulators that are coded in the software. I don’t expect Jussi to detail this IP because of its military and tactical sensitive origins. If you are familiar with dynamic filtering and advance digital signal processing the technical details and convolution process are understood at a high level.

Best you read what I wrote before replying...

 

[PYP]

Has a survey been done to determine the percentage of WBF participants who use: vinyl only, digital only, and both? Can't get a sense from these threads.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Has a survey been done to determine the percentage of WBF participants who use: vinyl only, digital only, and both? Can't get a sense from these threads.

because there is no sense to find.

so many flavors of digital only, so many flavors of vinyl only, so many flavors of people listening to both. even flavors of what country or continent builds your cartridge. so surveys just scratch the surface and quickly become non relevant.

we have thousands of posts just about streaming, files and silver discs........

looking for the larger picture is tough, we live in a feudal environment with micro climates. and tall walls around our beliefs. hardly time for any listening, considering to the need to defend our turf. I'm just anti against anti thinking.

 

[PYP]

because there is no sense to find.

so many flavors of digital only, so many flavors of vinyl only, so many flavors of people listening to both. even flavors of what country or continent builds your cartridge. so surveys just scratch the surface and quickly become non relevant.

we have thousands of posts just about streaming, files and silver discs........

looking for the larger picture is tough, we live in a feudal environment with micro climates. and tall walls around our beliefs. hardly time for any listening, considering to the need to defend our turf. I'm just anti against anti thinking.

I realize it is complex but there seem to be many people who read the threads who do not post. What does the WBF universe look like? Maybe I'm the only one interested...

I see but don't get the turf thing. It is all subjective. What is the best tooth paste? A contest works in individual sports (which was fun back in the day when testosterone was high) but this hobby isn't a foot race. If it is, the swagger makes me think there are many former sprinters here.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I realize it is complex but there seem to be many people who read the threads who do not post. What does the WBF universe look like? Maybe I'm the only one interested...

I see but don't get the turf thing. It is all subjective.

not everyone gets defensive, but enough pursue righteousness pushing their views needing to have their perspective be superior. which is healthy in a sense. lock step is not desired either with everyone back slapping.all the time.

What is the best tooth paste? A contest works in individual sports (which was fun back in the day when testosterone was high) but this hobby isn't a foot race. If it is, the swagger makes me think there are many former sprinters here.

some hobbies do bring out our competitive nature, hopefully good natured too. but not always.

and hopefully our guards can lower enough for some learning, sharing and teaching too. but the bluster has to lower a bit for that to happen. and it does do that many times. plenty of signal in the noise.

 

[andromedaaudio]

What is the best tooth paste?

How many brands of tooth paste you have , 100 s 1000s ?
How many brands of cars you have ,....
Companies serve all kinds of customers tastes / preferences .

Same goes for Hifi , you cant make all persons happy with one brand only .
A person can buy a system and declare its the best , its fine with me , these claims do get kinda stale/ narrow minded after a while though.

Listening to music / watching movies is the opposite of competition, its about relaxing afaik ....

 

[Joe Whip]

I am sitting here enjoying the music with my new SMc Audio pre amp. Just enjoy your tunes guys.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

What is the science that explains why some digital recordings sound better on vinyl?
What is the science that explains why you need HQplayer?

What is the science of all my vinyl sounding better than digital?

 

[Lee]

I think the best thing is to have a variety of sources. Not everything is on vinyl or digital. I love my record, tape, CD, SACD, and streaming playback.

It‘s all good as my friend Sergio would say!

 

[PYP]

What is the science of all my vinyl sounding better than digital?

I have read a few listening "tests" where the majority of people prefer the sound of vinyl (I posted one from a company which designs/manufacturers digital products: https://www.grimmaudio.com/blogs/vinyl-versus-digital/ ) This isn't proof per se since one can nitpick the setups that are compared, but I believe the results are conclusive.

Science seems to tell us that the distortions of vinyl are friendly to the ear and preferred to digital distortions in a majority of people (if that isn't true, please post links that show the opposite).

But, we all do hear differently. Is that the result of the shape of our ears (unique to each person), how our brains are configured or genetics? Science doesn't know that yet (at least I haven't read about it).

I write the above as a digital-only listener who had vinyl many, many years ago in a mid-fi system. So, why do I settle for digital? Because once the distortion is low enough (and that includes distortion delivered via electric outlet, other equipment in the setup, ethernet/network, vibration, room interactions) my ear/brain hears lovely music. The gear disappears (that is, a good-enough simulation of live music is achieved). I listen because it is pleasurable (it isn't digital flagellation).

But if vinyl floats your boat, that is great. You have access to some truly wonderfully mastered recordings of memorable performances which are played on cool looking stuff that makes digital look pedestrian. Liner notes are easily available. And especially if you are the type of person who likes to manually tinker with delicate cartridges and the like (not saying this dismissively), the comforting rituals are something missing from digital playback.

 

[Audiohertz2]

So , what price Digital is necessary to get close to Vinyl .. ?

 

[PYP]

So , what price Digital is necessary to get close to Vinyl .. ?

I don't know if that question is meant for me but I don't know the answer. First, I don't know what great vinyl sounds like (the few setups I've heard didn't do it for me). Second, I know what my stuff cost, but that doesn't mean an enjoyable digital rig couldn't be done for less.

If going with a smaller budget, a transport is probably the way to go. Streaming introduces a number of challenges and those challenges require time, lots of experimentation and, inevitably, money (at least for those of us without the IT gene). Also, depending upon one's preferences, it might be preferable to have amplification that does not emphasize upstream deficiencies (don't ask me which ones because that is only theoretical territory for me).

 

[thedudeabides]

I realize it is complex but there seem to be many people who read the threads who do not post. What does the WBF universe look like? Maybe I'm the only one interested...

An observation only.

With all due respect, it is because these type threads are so common here and elsewhere, and the same posts are repeated ad nauseum, often by the same people, time and time and time again.

This is Post 2,674. What has not been already said that was not in the previous 2,673 posts on THIS THREAD alone not to mention the numerous A v D threads that have preceded this thread?. Easily a cumulative total exceeding 10,000 posts on this topic. Maybe even approaching 15,000. Just a guess of course but likely true.

ML's closing paragraph in Post 2664 says it all. I would love to see a A v D thread that attempts to explain why this topic keeps reappearing. That would be interesting. Any takers?

 

[PYP]

An observation only.

With all due respect, it is because these type threads are so common here and elsewhere, and the same posts are repeated ad nauseum, often by the same people, time and time and time again.

This is Post 2,674. What has not been already said that was not in the previous 2,673 posts on THIS THREAD alone not to mention the numerous A v D threads that have preceded this thread?. Easily a cumulative total exceeding 10,000 posts. Maybe even approaching 15,000. Just a guess of course but likely true.

ML's closing paragraph in Post 2664 says it all.. I would love to see a A v D thread that attempts to explain why this topic keeps reappearing. Any takers?

agreed. Thought the data might be helpful. But perhaps it will simply inspire another 15,000 pages and I wouldn't want to encourage that, even though it will happen anyway. I will continue to do my part to contribute to the next 15,000 pages, however.

Why? What does it all mean? I believe we all enjoy music and seek a community of people who enjoy the same. Through the miracle of anonymity via a keyboard, it breaks apart at that point.

I'm sure there are many here who have visited a friend or acquaintance with a nice setup. And even if one thinks "very nice but not for me" while listening, one has not said something like "vinyl/digital [your choice here] sucks!" then got up and left without looking back (assuming you know the way to the front door).

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I have read a few listening "tests" where the majority of people prefer the sound of vinyl (I posted one from a company which designs/manufacturers digital products: https://www.grimmaudio.com/blogs/vinyl-versus-digital/ ) This isn't proof per se since one can nitpick the setups that are compared, but I believe the results are conclusive.

Science seems to tell us that the distortions of vinyl are friendly to the ear and preferred to digital distortions in a majority of people (if that isn't true, please post links that show the opposite).

But, we all do hear differently. Is that the result of the shape of our ears (unique to each person), how our brains are configured or genetics? Science doesn't know that yet (at least I haven't read about it).

I write the above as a digital-only listener who had vinyl many, many years ago in a mid-fi system. So, why do I settle for digital? Because once the distortion is low enough (and that includes distortion delivered via electric outlet, other equipment in the setup, ethernet/network, vibration, room interactions) my ear/brain hears lovely music. The gear disappears (that is, a good-enough simulation of live music is achieved). I listen because it is pleasurable (it isn't digital flagellation).

But if vinyl floats your boat, that is great. You have access to some truly wonderfully mastered recordings of memorable performances which are played on cool looking stuff that makes digital look pedestrian. Liner notes are easily available. And especially if you are the type of person who likes to manually tinker with delicate cartridges and the like (not saying this dismissively), the comforting rituals are something missing from digital playback.

Very interesting and thank you for sharing. Jeff.

 

[Audiohertz2]

An observation only.

With all due respect, it is because these type threads are so common here and elsewhere, and the same posts are repeated ad nauseum, often by the same people, time and time and time again.

This is Post 2,674. What has not been already said that was not in the previous 2,673 posts on THIS THREAD alone not to mention the numerous A v D threads that have preceded this thread?. Easily a cumulative total exceeding 10,000 posts on this topic. Maybe even approaching 15,000. Just a guess of course but likely true.

ML's closing paragraph in Post 2664 says it all. I would love to see a A v D thread that attempts to explain why this topic keeps reappearing. That would be interesting. Any takers?

Well lets not stop now , 5K is within reach, its getting easier now that we have established Analog sounds better

 

[Al M.]

Well lets not stop now , 5K is within reach, its getting easier now that we have established Analog sounds better

Vinyl (usually the main analog source) sounds different. The technical reasons, given how vinyl is cut, should be obvious. Therefore digital "cannot get to" vinyl sound even if it tried. And why should it?

 

[PYP]

Well lets not stop now , 5K is within reach, its getting easier now that we have established Analog sounds better

you forgot to finish the sentence: ....Analog sounds better to the majority of people, assuming the anecdotal evidence is correct.

Regarding the OP's question: Can digital get to the vinyl sound? No, because both have distortion and those distortion characteristics are different, therefore they will always sound different, even as both reduce distortion over time (the last part won't be amenable to those who prefer vintage).

Perhaps the question is: Can digital be just as enjoyable as vinyl for a music lover? That is a whole different question, but it has been covered in part during this long and winding thread since the thread has touched on the influence of mastering, the content available, what "new music" means and the method to discover it, the desire by some to (lovingly) handle a record vs. pressing buttons, and whether folks are collectors of music from (let's say) the 50s and 60s, among other differences. My answer to that question would be Yes, but these are not always the same person [Note: there are some here who have said they enjoy both, but there is no data about their percentage of the total WBF population.]

 

[facten]

Has a survey been done to determine the percentage of WBF participants who use: vinyl only, digital only, and both? Can't get a sense from these threads.

I realize it is complex but there seem to be many people who read the threads who do not post. What does the WBF universe look like? Maybe I'm the only one interested.

Any reason for you not to reach out to the moderators to find out if surveys are permitted? If they are then you're in the position to create one, put it out, see how many responses you get, compile and publish the results.

Personally I don't care what others preferences are, but I'd fill it out for you.