Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[microstrip]

Hehe. Haha.

And the discussion is back where it started 2 years and +200 pages ago....

Curiously I don't think so. We see much less people complaining about the steps of digital ...

Digital and vinyl formats are different sounding - I think it is now more accepted that choice is a question of system, particular recordings and listener preference, not of "absolutes".

 

[Al M.]

Curiously I don't think so. We see much less people complaining about the steps of digital ...

That is true. Either they finally have sufficiently understood how digital works (it took me a long time too), or they have given up after they have been told so many times that they are technically wrong about digital stairsteps ...

Digital and vinyl formats are different sounding - I think it is now more accepted that choice is a question of system, particular recordings and listener preference, not of "absolutes".

Agreed. Perhaps the discussion has not changed that much in the last 2 years, but certainly it has changed over the last 10 years, where acceptance of digital among audiophiles was indeed not as widespread yet.

My own attitude has changed drastically in the last 10 years as well. While I have been digital-only in my own system for decades now, 10 years ago I was strongly convinced that vinyl was still superior. I didn't think, for example, that digital could do tenor saxophone, solo violin and orchestral massed strings right. Yet over the years evidence has accumulated for me where the supposed shortcomings of digital were erased bit by bit by its improved performance, and at the same time I have gathered yet more experience with unamplified live music as well, which I use as a reference. At this point I am simply not convinced anymore that digital is inferior to vinyl.

 

[msimanyi]

It *is* remarkable, at least to me, how much better digital has become. Between improved DACs, better understanding of power supplies and their sonic effects, better cables - both interconnects and, for streaming, ethernet - and other treatments, I find the gap between analog and digital has narrowed substantially.

Five years ago, I never would have imagined streaming for listening other than in my car or perhaps on a walk. Now, I enjoy it tremendously in my relatively modest system.

 

[skinnyfla]

... I always thought I don`t need digital, after buying an Antipodes K22 and an Audio Note 2.1x Sig. DAC and adding a Reiki Audio switch, using Squeeze and Roon & playing locally stored WAV files ripped via dbpoweramp, I find it is actually pretty good and I also find it is more often a question of mastering and pressing rather than source... and as the mastering for digital and vinyl will ALWAYS be different, I don`t really get how you would want to compare one to the other anyhow - apples and oranges ;-)

 

[tsepadub]

most people wouldn't be able to tell which one is on in a blind test

 

[morricab]

Looks like most Russian speaking designers like the same stuff. Both Abbas and SWIX use the same P605 GE transistors in their i/v convertors as NEM. No idea who was first, my wild guess would put the blame on Abbas: sample circuits can be found on his site.

The low tech digital board and choice of delta-sigma chip surprise me more than the GE transistors. Perhaps a well executed PS, a little germanium and an amorphous core output transformer can turn even the output of an mp3 player into a satisfying musical experience?

Yes, and I have heard an Abbas DAC using them, which was very good and quite rich sounding. Interestingly, the NEM is using an AD1853, which is a sigma/Delta DAC chip, whereas Abbas likes the old school Phillips, Burr Brown or AD R2R DACs. The AD1853 is a pretty good sounding chip for a sigma/delta (I had one in my Audio Aero Prima DAC back in the day) but I would prefer the R2R chips.

 

[Rensselaer]

most people wouldn't be able to tell which one is on in a blind test

On my rig, I can always tell if a vinyl record was recorded from a digital master vs analogue master and mastering.

 

[Audioarts]

Yes, and I have heard an Abbas DAC using them, which was very good and quite rich sounding. Interestingly, the NEM is using an AD1853, which is a sigma/Delta DAC chip, whereas Abbas likes the old school Phillips, Burr Brown or AD R2R DACs. The AD1853 is a pretty good sounding chip for a sigma/delta (I had one in my Audio Aero Prima DAC back in the day) but I would prefer the R2R chips.

Correct on the NEM. Here’s my latest version used in the showroom.

 

[microstrip]

On my rig, I can always tell if a vinyl record was recorded from a digital master vs analogue master and mastering.

Considering what Ralph Karsten told us about vinyl versus tape in a recent post in another thread this is expected if the vinyl pressing process is of good quality.

 

[Audiohertz2]

You have been exposed to some decent vinyl over the years, Al.

It is difficult to explain, but I have heard some digital sound fairly natural, and thus closer to the vinyl I happen to like. I have not really heard vinyl sound like digital. The mediums typically sound quite different to

Yes they do

... I always thought I don`t need digital, after buying an Antipodes K22 and an Audio Note 2.1x Sig. DAC and adding a Reiki Audio switch, using Squeeze and Roon & playing locally stored WAV files ripped via dbpoweramp, I find it is actually pretty good and I also find it is more often a question of mastering and pressing rather than source... and as the mastering for digital and vinyl will ALWAYS be different, I don`t really get how you would want to compare one to the other anyhow - apples and oranges ;-)

There’s a ping present in digital reproduction you either hear it or you don't , if not you will never have an issue with digital reproduction, for those who do its an annoyance kinda like how Digiphiles cant handle LP groove noise ..

 

[PeterA]

On my rig, I can always tell if a vinyl record was recorded from a digital master vs analogue master and mastering.

That’s a testament to your system quality.

 

[microstrip]

(...) It is difficult to explain, but I have heard some digital sound fairly natural, and thus closer to the vinyl I happen to like. I have not really heard vinyl sound like digital. The mediums typically sound quite different to me. Especially streaming.

Curious that you never address tape. IMO it is the analog medium that should be compared to digital - my perception of digital changed since I got the Studer A80 and TapeProject master tapes.

 

[Kingsrule]

most people wouldn't be able to tell which one is on in a blind test

Sure they would..the pops and clicks and just plane old grove noise are dead record giveaways...

 

[Willgolf]

Judging by everyone's comments, it is unlikely that a consensus will be reached on this debate. I love my digital system. Vinyl is outstanding if you have no scratches on your albums. My personal preference is to sit in my La-Z-Boy and be able to play any artist, any song, without having to move. Not all digital recordings are great, and I can notice a difference when they are not. The same can be said for vinyl. I also like the fact that I don't have thousands of albums / CD's that I have to store. If vinyl is better, that is ok with me, because I believe I am getting 99% of vinyl quality with my digital system.

 

[Kingrex]

Judging by everyone's comments, it is unlikely that a consensus will be reached on this debate. I love my digital system. Vinyl is outstanding if you have no scratches on your albums. My personal preference is to sit in my La-Z-Boy and be able to play any artist, any song, without having to move. Not all digital recordings are great, and I can notice a difference when they are not. The same can be said for vinyl. I also like the fact that I don't have thousands of albums / CD's that I have to store. If vinyl is better, that is ok with me, because I believe I am getting 99% of vinyl quality with my digital system.

I kind of agree. At least to the idea I'm boored of the my xxxx is bigger than your yyyyy. Who cares. Play what you like. Both are satisfactory. Especially when you consider your speakers and room are the biggest issue. And that speaker is never going to come close to live. So why argue over a extremely subtle difference between source material.

 

[Rexp]

I kind of agree. At least to the idea I'm boored of the my xxxx is bigger than your yyyyy. Who cares. Play what you like. Both are satisfactory. Especially when you consider your speakers and room are the biggest issue. And that speaker is never going to come close to live. So why argue over a extremely subtle difference between source material.

Nope, ever heard of garbage in garbage out...

 

[Rexp]

I tend to prefer earlier pre delta-sigma digital recordings, unless they fix the poor A to D problem, digital has no chance of catching up with analog.

 

[facten]

There’s a ping present in digital reproduction

Honest question , can you described further what you mean by "ping"?

 

[Kingrex]

Nope, ever heard of garbage in garbage out...

No I have not heard that saying when pertaining to digital as its not garbage. Maybe your digital is garbage. Try harder and you will learn, the source is not the limiting factor.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Honest question , can you described further what you mean by "ping"?

Digital noise , very noticeable at shows when walking from room to room , walk into a room playing analog and its very absent…