Can Horn Speakers Disappear like Planars, Stats, and Omnis? Is the Disappearance Act Subjective? Or based on Placement and Partnering Equipment?

Lampie519

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I do not agree here....

because... The top end is nice to have but not required ( especially at my age even though i use super tweeters ha ha),

The bottom end is also nice to have but also not required for pin point positioning of musicians.

I own Beveridges (Model 2 and Model 2SW) plus dual Acoustat Monitor (stacked), just info.... and used to have ML CLS as well in the past plus many others...

But my point here is that it is not the speaker (in "our" case as there is no phase issue) that is responsible for the imaging but the front end (plus acoustic reflections that can cause comb filtering when placed too close to a hard surface).
 

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Lagonda

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I agree with Caesar about the general differences between ELS and MBL, and you do need good sources and amplification for best result, but a lot of stats have a mid-bass leanness and plasticity when played loudly even with good amps. CLS especially, have owned mine since 1986. :)
 

Lampie519

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Try OTL or Zotl amps...
 
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Lagonda

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I had 30 years of fun with ELS, i doubt i will go back to them now, maybe as backup, i even have brand new stators for my CLS in a box if needed :)
 

Lampie519

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It is always good to have a backup system (or 2..)
 
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the sound of Tao

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It is always good to have a backup system (or 2..)
I believe that’s why lagonda’s avatar now has a horn in the ear... Milan a second setup in the garage coming literally out just above the lagonda with a new big horn system may be your deep subconscious telegraphing the future :eek:
 
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Lampie519

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I see you already use a Chord M scaler. Do you have it set to the highest possible frequency?

Sorry off topic...
 

the sound of Tao

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I see you already use a Chord M scaler. Do you have it set to the highest possible frequency?

Sorry off topic...
Yes, at full rate (has the most flow).

But yes, back to the horn thing I’d suggest as others have said before the type of horn comes in to play and horns are greatly variable in nature and attributes. The Pap trios in upgraded xover form (and dialled in properly) easily disappear.

The new larger quintet @ 16 ohm with 8 15 inch woofers is allowing the SET amp with otl type pre up front deliver low level information even better and these quintets in large scale classical forces are doing compelling and effortless flow and disappear even in the largest most complex musical passages with great ease.

I’ll be interested to see how swapping in beryllium radians may up that even more with that bit greater extension and much higher break up modes. I’ve yet to finalise the horn but thought I’ll try a SEOS waveguide as well next to see the impacts of a constant directivity type on the horn’s nature.

But even as they are now as a big two way they are among the most seamless and coherent and capable of disappearing as easily as the Magnepan 20.7s but even more lifelike in scale and in nature again.
 
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Lagonda

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I believe that’s why lagonda’s avatar now has a horn in the ear... Milan a second setup in the garage coming literally out just above the lagonda with a new big horn system may be your deep subconscious telegraphing the future :eek:
LOL, yes i have a 12m x 5 m room with concrete flooring above my garage, one day i will set up a second system over there, probably horns with SET. :)
 

the sound of Tao

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LOL, yes i have a 12m x 5 m room with concrete flooring above my garage, one day i will set up a second system over there, probably horns with SET. :)
Nice size room. Big jazz heaven. Wow. Much excellent move!!
 
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Lampie519

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If i had a space like that to spare i would invite a real band...

I have hardly any space for my old Hammond...
 

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Kcin

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Let's not forget how different electrostatic speakers are dependent on brand and model. Some are frequency limited in both ends, like my old ML CLS and do not do pinpoint imaging very well, others like Beveridge or big Soundlab do a better job at it. :)
OT-but my direct drive modified Beveridges do imaging very well. It is possible with stats.
 

Lampie519

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What custom amps have you installed in your Model 3's?
 

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Kcin

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What custom amps have you installed in your Model 3's?
I started working with RM on it. It has morphed over the years with my interventions.

It uses 26DQ5 typically used in horizontal deflection amplifiers. I run high voltage test prod wires direct to the stators of the Model 3s.
 

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Lampie519

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Very nice indeed using a tube input circuit as well.
 

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Kcin

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Very nice indeed using a tube input circuit as well.
Yes Sir, big difference for me. The Bev's can be startling driven this way.... back to horns!
 
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pdubya

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With AG Mezzo XDs I find the “disappearing” act more recording dependent. But no experience with analog, and minimal tube exploration, so unsure how much difference might derive from that sort of thing. Fleetwood Devilles are a bit more ”invisible” — could be the stand-mount effect, could be the much smaller horn surface, could be ...
Parker
 

Lampie519

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Yes. the recording has to have this attribute:

Best recordings for me are these:
 

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cjfrbw

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I have no argument with horns at all, they are fantastic and likely the ultimate in a large room when done right, but my current planar system is the most disappeared I have had short of heard electrostats, with reasonable dynamics to boot. There is no consciousness at all that the music is coming from anything in the room.

I say 'reasonable', not competitive with horns. Stats have to be utterly huge to approach 'reasonable' dynamics.
 

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