Can we actually discuss What is Best on this forum?

[tima]

One line of thought intends to demonstrate that "best", when applied to a type of audio thing establishes that that thing can not exist. How can we discuss that which cannot exist?

 

[dcathro]

i've started a few Wadax posts but then my mind plays it out and i just pass. do i want to deal with the negativity? or do i need to dumb down my enthusiasm enough to not step on toes? better to just dim the lights and listen. is the forum better for that?

i don't come to the forum looking for a conflict. when i get tempted to post negative things, mostly i don't hit send, or delete them soon after posting. one wants to confront wrongs, but then seeing around the bend of the thread it's just a waste and ends up sucking you down.

Wow, this totally sums up my approach to forums. I almost never post anything critical or contentious. I have strong views, but I mainly keep them to myself rather than offend or upset anyone.

I think that posting our experiences should be helpful to others, but often it is taken as a form of attack.

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . I thought I would show you the respect and respond to your post.

Thank you.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Hehe, I know...

Regardless, I am proud to have Unnatural Sound(TM).

Me too i have no intentions to join the Natural sound club .
Their standards are SET too high

I prefer the relaxed atmosphere of the unnatural sound club .

 

[bonzo75]

Excellent Peter. Very direct to the heading of this thread. I also got my answer as you saw it. No longer need to participate in this thread for you and me.

I may have some comment to make in regard to negativity Mike has experienced which I feel the same way as him. But will write in the Wadax thread instead.

this is very funny reaction from you. You seem to be making hormonal sound

 

[andromedaaudio]

Im actually thinking of may be changing the name of my systemthread to generate some more publicity''/ traffic.

Im thinking of

HJ s system , the real natural sound

 

[andromedaaudio]

Al , The real natural sound is trade marked TM.

But you can buy it of me for 15 euros lol

 

[sbo6]

View attachment 96977

There is an interesting new thread asking the question: Is there a "World's Best Cartridge?"

I think this thread title and the discussion that follows provides some fascinating insights and gets to the heart of what this forum is all about. On its face, it seems pretty straight forward: name a forum "What's Best" and invite people to discuss what they think is best. In reality though, this is not really what we see here. We see opinions and comments suggesting that there is no best. There are simply competing products which sound different and appeal to different tastes. Everything depends on personal preference and subjective opinion. We have a list of various audiophile goals. We have endless debates about turntable drive types, amplifier typology, and analog versus digital. There are disagreements about which LP pressing or digital resolution sounds best, which cables sound more real, and lately, which super DAC is best right now, today.

Why are there so many different opinions and experiences? Why does there seem to be so much disagreement and an unwillingness to claim that something is in fact the best? We see reports of members declaring that such and such is the "best he has heard". Everything seems to need qualification. No one seems to want to proclaim an absolute. Are we afraid to offend? Does everything deserve recognition and respect? Is it the need to think one has to hear every single example of a type of component to "know" something is the best? Is it simply that we are unsure, still learning and searching, trying to understand what we like? We have a known reference against which we can judge what is good, better, and the best - what comes closest to the sound of the real thing. Why then can we not seem to agree on much?

The other observation I see all over the place is that everything is compromised: the room, the speakers, the source, the electronics. Nothing is perfect, so we select the component that best satisfies our sonic priorities. This too seems to be a huge qualification. Are there not some, even very few, components, rooms, and systems that are less compromised? The ones that seem to have come closest to solving the design challenge? These are the best because they are the least compromised. These are the components that do not draw the listener's attention to the gear. He does not analyse the sound asking what is good or bad. The best gear disappears. These best simply exposes the music on the recording and allow the listener to lose himself.

I see a strange kind of irony in the name of this forum and what seems to be a hesitation, an inability, or even an unwillingness to proclaim the superiority of those rare and coveted products that rise above the rest and sound the most real.

It is for these reasons that I find this comment from a member describing two of his turntables to be so unusual and so refreshing:

"Anyway. What I like to say is in reality, some tts are just "better" than the others. There are cases where saying "sound best upon preference" just cannot really apply because some tts are just "better." It is not about preference. Just like when people say tape sound better than this and that. In my system, the AS2000 is a better tt than the AF1P if we all put highest value on the reproduction sound nearest to recording venue, fool you real. I could start the day listening to the AF1P and fully enjoy the whole day til go home at 4pm...but Just dont switch to the AS2000. If during the day, I switch to AS2000, I will end up ending my day with the AS2000. It just draws me in. The best I could describe the sound difference between the two is the AS just sounds more real. Please dont be black and white interpretting I said AF1P cannot reproduce sound close to real. It could. But we are in a hobby of getting sound reproduction nearest to real. So what I am saying is in degree the sound from AS2000 fools me real more than the AF1P. There are threads discussing what contributes to fool you real sensation. We can go look at those attributes and the AS2000 has a lot of those. The AF1P has excellent dynamic, "exciting" sound stage, super details, super quiet, etc. But what is missing that make the AS2000 present the sounds with even less exciting sound stage than the AF1 but sounds more real. I am certain that Nishigawa San has his answer in the Zero otherwise there wouldntbe a Zero at the first place. If the Zero retains the gooness of AF1 plus increase the degree of fool you real, then some people could "prefer" the Zero to the AS2000."

Your first paragraph mostly answers your second paragraph's questions.

Also, I don't take the name "What's Best Forum" too literally, I take it as a gateway to a forum with people of similar interest to discuss all things high - end audio, not just "What's Best". Any further analysis is IMO a waste of time. Put on a record (or a stream) and forget about it.

 

[cjfrbw]

Maybe 'What's Most Veblens' Forum', for shiny object pride of ownership and joyously embraced, ramped up cost ineffectiveness?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Can we discuss .....Whats the best marketed /most hyped product ?

 

[Fishfood]

Can we discuss .....Whats the best marketed /most hyped product ?

Bose anything to start

 

[andromedaaudio]

plus MAGICO / WILSON to name a few

 

[morricab]

plus MAGICO / WILSON to name a few

I think these speakers from the Netherlands with the name Andromeda are overhyped...I see them all the time on WBF!

 

[andromedaaudio]

I think these speakers from the Netherlands with the name Andromeda are overhyped...I see them all the time on WBF!

Thats true , you gotta point there .
Okay lets say they are not properly marketed then

 

[sbo6]

plus MAGICO / WILSON to name a few

Curious how you draw parallels assuming you (as I do) perceive Bose as mediocre engineered products with overhyped, market flooding adverts. 1 of 2 maybe, the other, I can't agree.