Can we actually discuss What is Best on this forum?
- Thread starter PeterA
- Start date
I know , many groups on planet earth have a inclusive " spread the gospel " mandate unfortunately
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But that then begs the question, which subset of WBF members should take their ball and go home and which subset are the "experts"? How much overlap is there between those subsets? Can you make a Venn diagram to illustrate (names that go in each if you really want to fan the flames)?
I would correct that to planet earth solely .
If you can travel in a flying saucer to planet earth and dissapear and reappear in a blink of an eye , i assume they have a different set of standards which defy the laws of physics all together
No, I‘d say it’s one of the better ones according to some for the present time. Technology changes. Better is still on the drawing board.
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i'm just sitting here enjoying my morning, minding my own business, staying out of the XXXXXXX XXXXX TM hubbub, and the 'best' brouhaha......and here we go.
note to self. don't get defensive. even with a shot across your bow. Master Tang clearly wants to start something for entertainment purposes. the devil. who can blame him? like Ron yesterday. sticks and stones and all that stuff.
living well is always the best retort.
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Perhaps you have in mind the qualification I am about to discuss, but perhaps you do not. I think a discussion like this is well-advised to begin with the person’s objective. What is best for one objective, might be sub-optimal for a different objective.
For example, if a race car driver wants to enjoy a civilian production model on the track, he might choose an earlier generation of sports car without today’s variety of traction controls and distributed braking pressure systems and limited slip devices. To achieve a particular objective, the earlier generation of a product might be the better answer to a particular question.
I was not talking about you Mike. Not rubbing you if that is what you think. The subject of auditioning wadax was mentioned. Why would anything about Wadax has to be about you. Or why would anything about AS2000 has to be about me. I have two friends over here bought Wadax and threw the old dac out too. They sure know for certain what is better. You really think I would question you about buying wadax not knowing which is better to you? Am I seeing you have two dacs for different flavor like your tts? My saying is not about you Mike. I talked about Wadax and you connect or draw the dots to you yourself just because you own one.
Wisdom always gets people in a better place.
May be that .
May be its simply the use of materials / overal built of that time and age
Our company has machines running in the eastern part of Germany in very old factories , they still have pumps and motors running from the early twenties from the previous century , 100 years old .
More robust casting was done , the machines were ( over ) built to last forever basically .
In a horn compression driver the choice of diaphragm material / the motor system can make or brake a transducer , a small detail can alter the sound
with all due respect, i had looked to see if your post was a specific reaction to another recent post in this thread, bringing up the Wadax in some other context. i saw nothing to support an alternate interpretation than the one i made. sure; i'm not the only Wadax Ref owner here, but i'm by far the most active about it. if your post was about non WBF Wadax owners, then maybe you might have mentioned that. it seemed at least partly aimed at me. and not that you were casting negative ideas about it. just throwing it out there for a reaction.
but i would like to hear about your local Wadax owners and the dacs they moved on from. maybe not on this thread unless it's relevant to "what is best". i do agree completely that committing those assets toward a dac is proof of a confidence it's the best. not any fact, just the feeling about it.
Audio is similar to ice cream, there’s always going to be a different flavor of the month.No bests, just subjective opinions of people’s favorites.
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
I think I have said what I am going to say at least three times on this forum.
All audio is not the same
All High End Audio is not equal
There are distinct categories which I label Good ( or high end entry level)
Very Good( products that are clearly superior to the entry level but surpassed by the next category)
Excellent ( products that have at one time been in the last category and have been surpassed)
THE Extraordinary ( this is a constantly moving target. What's there today will be passed in the future as the end game is still a moving target and has not yet been achieved)
People are very protective about the gear they own and like. This is normal behavior.
What I find ugly here is that this tribal, defensive and abrasive behavior is very much like our society today. It seems no one wants to listen and no one wants to learn, We can all learn, we all don't it all. Your opinion is just that an opinion. There is no respect here at all for expertise and experience it all goes back to protection of one's personal beliefs. There can be more than one way to do something!!!
I am a dealer and a distributor so therefore I am the DEVIL. I know that i don't know everything but I do know a bunch and have a load of experience. I have heard so many systems and been invited to so many clients homes only to be over 98 percent of the time seriously disappointed. So much so that it is really funny that they claim they have the best system far better than my own. I have heard some really good ones and there are a few that are incredible but this is the exception not the rule.
This is not like a race car since that can be measured, it is however like wine and food in that without experience and trial one can only know a small amount.
We can all hear that I agree but listening is a whole different kettle of fish gentlemen. Ask your wives LOL.
Ask your kids
One can convince themselves for a variety of reasons that what they have is great .
Liking something does not mean its the best! It may be YOUR best but that is different. If the best steak you ever ate is a sizzler then any steak house you go to will be the best Mortons, Ruth Chris, Abe and Louie's, Peter Luger, Berns etc. May or not be true but it lacks experience and exposure. There may have been intelligent life before you HAHA
Be a liker and learner and stop being a hater.
I am now awaiting my WBF buddy( lol) to descend from the mountain of moral indignation and put on his cape of outrage so that he can reprise his role as "THE VICTIM"
All audio is not the same
All High End Audio is not equal
There are distinct categories which I label Good ( or high end entry level)
Very Good( products that are clearly superior to the entry level but surpassed by the next category)
Excellent ( products that have at one time been in the last category and have been surpassed)
THE Extraordinary ( this is a constantly moving target. What's there today will be passed in the future as the end game is still a moving target and has not yet been achieved)
People are very protective about the gear they own and like. This is normal behavior.
What I find ugly here is that this tribal, defensive and abrasive behavior is very much like our society today. It seems no one wants to listen and no one wants to learn, We can all learn, we all don't it all. Your opinion is just that an opinion. There is no respect here at all for expertise and experience it all goes back to protection of one's personal beliefs. There can be more than one way to do something!!!
I am a dealer and a distributor so therefore I am the DEVIL. I know that i don't know everything but I do know a bunch and have a load of experience. I have heard so many systems and been invited to so many clients homes only to be over 98 percent of the time seriously disappointed. So much so that it is really funny that they claim they have the best system far better than my own. I have heard some really good ones and there are a few that are incredible but this is the exception not the rule.
This is not like a race car since that can be measured, it is however like wine and food in that without experience and trial one can only know a small amount.
We can all hear that I agree but listening is a whole different kettle of fish gentlemen. Ask your wives LOL.
Ask your kids
One can convince themselves for a variety of reasons that what they have is great .
Liking something does not mean its the best! It may be YOUR best but that is different. If the best steak you ever ate is a sizzler then any steak house you go to will be the best Mortons, Ruth Chris, Abe and Louie's, Peter Luger, Berns etc. May or not be true but it lacks experience and exposure. There may have been intelligent life before you HAHA
Be a liker and learner and stop being a hater.
I am now awaiting my WBF buddy( lol) to descend from the mountain of moral indignation and put on his cape of outrage so that he can reprise his role as "THE VICTIM"
I think I have said what I am going to say at least three times on this forum.
All audio is not the same
All High End Audio is not equal
There are distinct categories which I label Good ( or high end entry level)
Very Good( products that are clearly superior to the entry level but surpassed by the next category)
Excellent ( products that have at one time been in the last category and have been surpassed)
THE Extraordinary ( this is a constantly moving target. What's there today will be passed in the future as the end game is still a moving target and has not yet been achieved)
People are very protective about the gear they own and like. This is normal behavior.
What I find ugly here is that this tribal, defensive and abrasive behavior is very much like our society today. It seems no one wants to listen and no one wants to learn, We can all learn, we all don't it all. Your opinion is just that an opinion. There is no respect here at all for expertise and experience it all goes back to protection of one's personal beliefs. There can be more than one way to do something!!!
I am a dealer and a distributor so therefore I am the DEVIL. I know that i don't know everything but I do know a bunch and have a load of experience. I have heard so many systems and been invited to so many clients homes only to be over 98 percent of the time seriously disappointed. So much so that it is really funny that they claim they have the best system far better than my own. I have heard some really good ones and there are a few that are incredible but this is the exception not the rule.
This is not like a race car since that can be measured, it is however like wine and food in that without experience and trial one can only know a small amount.
We can all hear that I agree but listening is a whole different kettle of fish gentlemen. Ask your wives LOL.
Ask your kids
One can convince themselves for a variety of reasons that what they have is great .
Liking something does not mean its the best! It may be YOUR best but that is different. If the best steak you ever ate is a sizzler then any steak house you go to will be the best Mortons, Ruth Chris, Abe and Louie's, Peter Luger, Berns etc. May or not be true but it lacks experience and exposure. There may have been intelligent life before you HAHA
Be a liker and learner and stop being a hater.
I am now awaiting my WBF buddy( lol) to descend from the mountain of moral indignation and put on his cape of outrage so that he can reprise his role as "THE VICTIM"
Great post, Elliot. Agree, there are categories of quality, there's no denying. Things are not equal. My current system is better than my old one, and I know systems that are better than mine. No whining or protectiveness needed.
Yet there is not necessarily a single "best" -- only a "best for me", perhaps.
I was already suspecting that many systems are disappointing in real life. Thanks for confirming.
Yes, I hate victimhood. "We are all victims here"...
Nice post Elliot. Why would you say there’s no respect for expertise or people with greater experience and knowledge in this hobby? They are precisely the ones that the rest of us can learn things from.
Also, could you name just a few of the products which you would put in the “extraordinary“ category as well as some of the excellent ones that have been surpassed by current products? Thank you.
It might be fun - and controversial - on a separate thread(s) to take all the audio components that we observe on WTB and place them into tiers. For instance:
Tier 1: Extraordinary
Tier 2: Excellent
Tier 3: Very Good
Tier 4: Good
Could we come to a consensus on such? If not, then I’d have to surmise that there could never be a best! Personal favorites, yes, but not the best.
Tier 1: Extraordinary
Tier 2: Excellent
Tier 3: Very Good
Tier 4: Good
Could we come to a consensus on such? If not, then I’d have to surmise that there could never be a best! Personal favorites, yes, but not the best.
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Elliot G.
Industry Expert
No I don't want to do that it just causes the same hostility.
I was fortunate to be exposed to audio through the some well known serious audio designers and reviewers. I was shown and had much explained to me. I lived through the growth of the HS business.
These are discussions over a bottle of wine with friends IMO. Here its just another post top fight over.
I've already been demonized for one Peter. THis just triggers the same old stuff.
OK Elliot. The question I asked in the OP has now been answered. Even with groups of categories, a totally inoffensive concept, it does not seem that here on WBF we can discuss what is best on a forum with that title.
Thanks everyone for responding to my thread.
Peter
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