Can You Believe This-The Government Wants Us To Go EV but In So Doing They Will impose a gas surcharge
- Thread starter Steve williams
- Start date
Empirical Audio
Industry Expert
Interesting read. I also did some calculations. I took a 100 mile trip yesterday in my Tesla Model S and noted the energy usage in WH/mile. It averaged 300WH/mile. The car automatically calculates this.
Then I calculated the cost per mile for an average ICE car at the current $2.99/gallon and average miles/gallon of 25, which is well-documented. I used the actual cost of gasoline including subsidies, government programs, defense spending to protect oil interests and corn-Ethanol subsidies. The cost comes out to 15 cents/mile on average to operate an ICE car. That does not include the added cost of DEQ, oil changes, new batteries, air filters, fan belts and engine repair/maintenance. The biggest part of these is the labor, not the parts, and labor is not getting cheaper. $100/hour average currently, unless you have a luxury car and then it might be $200/hour. The average maintenance cost for an ICE car is $99/month. If the average driving annually is 10K miles, then this is another 12 cents a mile bringing the ICE total to 27 cents a mile.
Finally I calculated the same for my Tesla. The average electricity rate nationwide is $0.12/KWH. At 300WH/mile, the cost to operate my Tesla comes out to 3.6 cents/mile. The scheduled maintenance on my Tesla over the last 4 years was $2K, so at 10K miles/year, this is 5 cents/ mile. This brings the total for the electric to 8.6 cents/mile. That is less than 1/3 of what it costs to operate an ICE car. I actually expect to spend $0 for the next 5 years however, which would bring the maintenance cost down to 2.2 cents/mile.
So, the bottom line is that the electric car pollutes 37% of the ICE car when charged from current fossil-fueled power plants (based on my previous white-paper) and the cost to operate it is less than 1/3 of the ICE car, even including maintenance. It is literally a no-brainer.
I have not factored-in the cost of replacing the engine in the ICE car or the battery after 200K+ miles. It is more likely IMO that the electric car will still be on the road long after the ICE car is crushed in the junk yard.
Then I calculated the cost per mile for an average ICE car at the current $2.99/gallon and average miles/gallon of 25, which is well-documented. I used the actual cost of gasoline including subsidies, government programs, defense spending to protect oil interests and corn-Ethanol subsidies. The cost comes out to 15 cents/mile on average to operate an ICE car. That does not include the added cost of DEQ, oil changes, new batteries, air filters, fan belts and engine repair/maintenance. The biggest part of these is the labor, not the parts, and labor is not getting cheaper. $100/hour average currently, unless you have a luxury car and then it might be $200/hour. The average maintenance cost for an ICE car is $99/month. If the average driving annually is 10K miles, then this is another 12 cents a mile bringing the ICE total to 27 cents a mile.
Finally I calculated the same for my Tesla. The average electricity rate nationwide is $0.12/KWH. At 300WH/mile, the cost to operate my Tesla comes out to 3.6 cents/mile. The scheduled maintenance on my Tesla over the last 4 years was $2K, so at 10K miles/year, this is 5 cents/ mile. This brings the total for the electric to 8.6 cents/mile. That is less than 1/3 of what it costs to operate an ICE car. I actually expect to spend $0 for the next 5 years however, which would bring the maintenance cost down to 2.2 cents/mile.
So, the bottom line is that the electric car pollutes 37% of the ICE car when charged from current fossil-fueled power plants (based on my previous white-paper) and the cost to operate it is less than 1/3 of the ICE car, even including maintenance. It is literally a no-brainer.
I have not factored-in the cost of replacing the engine in the ICE car or the battery after 200K+ miles. It is more likely IMO that the electric car will still be on the road long after the ICE car is crushed in the junk yard.
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Empirical Audio
Industry Expert
That's ok, we can still drive ICE in my country...still permissable, legal, and nobody gets hurt. 
Some of you might be interested to read this new article (and yes Steve I've read it in full or I wouldn't bother) ...
• https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html
The future looks brighter ... @ least the humour is ...
* Edit: Same article different link (small glitch in first link):
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html
• https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html
The future looks brighter ... @ least the humour is ...
* Edit: Same article different link (small glitch in first link):
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html
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This would indeed be a game changerSome of you might be interested to read this new article (and yes Steve I've read it in full or I wouldn't bother) ...
• https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html
The future looks brighter ... @ least the humour is ...
Let's hope for the best
My first thought was that this inventor has to be protected; against enemies from the oil industry.
My second thought was that it has to be some kind of humor: as it almost sounds too good for the planet.
You decide...each one of you.
My second thought was that it has to be some kind of humor: as it almost sounds too good for the planet.
You decide...each one of you.
Empirical Audio
Industry Expert
Some of you might be interested to read this new article (and yes Steve I've read it in full or I wouldn't bother) ...
• https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html
The future looks brighter ... @ least the humour is ...
* Edit: Same article different link (small glitch in first link):
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html
Interesting technology. This kind of thing will enable electric cars across the world. The problem with this technology is the wear-out is much faster than a LI battery. If the device allows replacement and this is cheap-enough, it will have uses in some vehicles, trains and ships.
This would indeed be a game changer
Let's hope for the best
I agree, something like this is exactly what we need right now... aluminum + an electrolyte you can drink + 1500 miles on a recyclable fuel cell that can be r&r'ed in minutes.
Makes Li Ion seem like a bad joke, I hope this is not also a joke.
Empirical Audio
Industry Expert
Yup, this is a good overview.
However, they don't mention that currently Northern Europe gets over 1/3rd of it's power from the wind, so even without great energy storage options it's possible to use renewables to replace quite a bit of fossil fuel use, depending on long-term weather patterns and the ability of the local grid. Northern Europe is interesting in that the wind blows steadily in many places, like the West coast of Denmark, it's just incredible actually. The wind seems to never let up! Good for sailing and wind power for sure, Ringkobing Fjord is a destination for wind surfers due to the protected and non-stop wind. Vestas has a production facility in Ringkobing, so I've been there quite a bit.
Also, Modern Wind Turbines may not have the EROEI of fossil fuel, but it also doesn't require burning of the fuel, and the EROEI of wind turbines is likely well over 20:1 right now, so we spend X units of energy to build, install, maintain, take down and recycle a wind turbine, and in return we get 20X units of energy back, and all it has to do is sit there and spin in the wind, not burn fuel.
Despite this, it's a good overview because it points out where we are now and the impossibility of a quick change to renewables unless the entire planet wants to make massive changes to the way we live, and even if we do, we probably still need to figure out how to control the Earth's climate and atmosphere using technology.
My car takes premium gas (91 Octane). The litre of gas here right now (91 Oc) is $1.78/litre.
"Drivers across Vancouver Island are being hit with a large jump at the pump on Tuesday.
GasBuddy.com is reporting a whopping 18 per cent jump at some gas stations in the Greater Victoria area.
Shell locations at Oak Bay Avenue, Esquimalt Road and Sooke Road, and the Petro-Canada on Shelbourne Street have all risen to 157.9 cents per litre."
$157.9 @ litre is for regular gas (87 Oc); for premium (91 Octane) add 20 cents per litre...$1.78
The price of gas went up recently probably due to what's happening overseas in Iran versus Saudi Arabia. Me I think Iran is pretty smart and might have faked the last two holes in one of their own oil ships (nobody knows where the missiles come from). We are slaved here even if we have enough oil (USA and Canada) to be independent of what's @ play overseas. And their games we are playing by paying more for gas here.
It makes zero sense to me.
• https://insideevs.com/news/377840/porsche-ceo-credits-tesla-600-mile-evs-coming/amp/
Plus that guy who came up recently with 1,500 miles per charge battery deal in the UK.
If we don't live in an upside down world I don't know if we hit the right planet ...
That's ok if you are a billionaire; you can afford a $25,000 oil change (Bugatti), and few litres of gas @ around $2 a litre for your pleasure cruises around the countryside.
Common mortals (less smart folks) with less money...for them it's different...give them EV with 500 miles range and more...they'll appreciate in masses no sweat and the world in general as we know it will be a better place
"Drivers across Vancouver Island are being hit with a large jump at the pump on Tuesday.
GasBuddy.com is reporting a whopping 18 per cent jump at some gas stations in the Greater Victoria area.
Shell locations at Oak Bay Avenue, Esquimalt Road and Sooke Road, and the Petro-Canada on Shelbourne Street have all risen to 157.9 cents per litre."
$157.9 @ litre is for regular gas (87 Oc); for premium (91 Octane) add 20 cents per litre...$1.78
The price of gas went up recently probably due to what's happening overseas in Iran versus Saudi Arabia. Me I think Iran is pretty smart and might have faked the last two holes in one of their own oil ships (nobody knows where the missiles come from). We are slaved here even if we have enough oil (USA and Canada) to be independent of what's @ play overseas. And their games we are playing by paying more for gas here.
It makes zero sense to me.
• https://insideevs.com/news/377840/porsche-ceo-credits-tesla-600-mile-evs-coming/amp/
Plus that guy who came up recently with 1,500 miles per charge battery deal in the UK.
If we don't live in an upside down world I don't know if we hit the right planet ...
That's ok if you are a billionaire; you can afford a $25,000 oil change (Bugatti), and few litres of gas @ around $2 a litre for your pleasure cruises around the countryside.
Common mortals (less smart folks) with less money...for them it's different...give them EV with 500 miles range and more...they'll appreciate in masses no sweat and the world in general as we know it will be a better place
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A Bugatti gets 51 miles from a full tank of gas, @ high speed on the highway.
That's just enough to get to Costco, that's it, and I need to refuel another full tank of gas to come back home with my groceries. The Bugatti is my favorite car manufacturer design; I don't want to change the oil and I don't want to put gas in it...I just want to plug it and go from zero to sixty in less than a second and be good for 500+ miles on a single charge.
That's not too much asking isn't?
Ok, you get the ironic humor of it...the point of the matter.
I love fast cars, I love beautiful ultra modern designs, I love comfort, I love luxuries, room service, I love life living in a fast lane. Go electric or bust.
That's just enough to get to Costco, that's it, and I need to refuel another full tank of gas to come back home with my groceries. The Bugatti is my favorite car manufacturer design; I don't want to change the oil and I don't want to put gas in it...I just want to plug it and go from zero to sixty in less than a second and be good for 500+ miles on a single charge.
That's not too much asking isn't?
Ok, you get the ironic humor of it...the point of the matter.
I love fast cars, I love beautiful ultra modern designs, I love comfort, I love luxuries, room service, I love life living in a fast lane. Go electric or bust.
Honda EV Revolution ... by 2022 ... electric Jazz
• https://www.express.co.uk/life-styl...latest-upcoming-electric-cars-for-sale-models
_____
And this, for people who keep track of Tesla business ...
• https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/24/sho...-more-than-1point4-billion-in-single-day.html
A lot of people I bet didn't expect that one. Elon Musk is not the type of guy you can easily bet on ... or/and against.
One thing is certain; EV is solidly implemented and it's going to pour more cement (concrete) as we go along day in day out. Don't bet against this current or you'll lose your shirts and shorts.
• https://www.express.co.uk/life-styl...latest-upcoming-electric-cars-for-sale-models
_____
And this, for people who keep track of Tesla business ...
• https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/24/sho...-more-than-1point4-billion-in-single-day.html
A lot of people I bet didn't expect that one. Elon Musk is not the type of guy you can easily bet on ... or/and against.
One thing is certain; EV is solidly implemented and it's going to pour more cement (concrete) as we go along day in day out. Don't bet against this current or you'll lose your shirts and shorts.
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Yes, I started a new thread yesterday about this very subject ...
• https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...uantum-computing-supremacy.29246/#post-603869
The video explains they just crossed the threshoid where a conventional computer can't keep up any more, later iterations will get progressively faster and enable us to simulate the climate and any attempts to alter it. This tech could enable such technology without just wishing and hoping things will work.
