Can You Believe This-The Government Wants Us To Go EV but In So Doing They Will impose a gas surcharge

[NorthStar]

>$7 per gallon here

That's an imperial gallon (UK)?

* Here in British Columbia where the gas is the most expensive of all provinces a liter of regular is $1.373 (premium is $1.573) as of today.

An imperial gallon (Canada) of "regular" gas is $6.25
For premium gas it's $7.15/gallon.

Say you drive a Bugatti Chiron that can do roughly 10 miles to the gallon on average (that if you don't drive 100km/hour over the speed limit), you need a good supply ($).
And of course we all know how much is an "oil change" for a Veyron; between $21,000 and $25,000 (they must use refined oil).

Anyhow gas is expensive and it will get more expensive, not less in this world's situation we live in. I see solar energy cars in the future ... the entire body being a solar panel.
And for days without sun, electricity (fast chargers) like some friends have right installed in their homes.

Twenty years from now I think we'll see ... it's inevitable.

 

[Sablon Audio]

Yes, imperial gallon. US$ or C$? ;-)

 

[NorthStar]

Yes, imperial gallon. US$ or C$? ;-)

Canadian $

 

[NorthStar]

Business > Economics - Banking - Money /// Markets (Today few minutes/hours ago) ...

"The attacks on Saudi Arabia’s oil infrastructure led to the biggest jump in global prices since 1988 by wiping out 5.7m barrels of production a day – 5% of the world’s oil supply.

The price of Brent crude surged by more than $12 (£9.60) a barrel within seconds as trading began in London, quickly breaching the $70 a barrel mark.

The energy price shock reverberated through global markets, driving up shares in energy companies on the prospect of higher profits, while stock exchanges across Europe plunged into the red as investors took fright over rising geopolitical tensions.

Oil market analysts claim prices could surge towards $100 a barrel in the coming weeks if Middle East tensions reignite disruption in the strait of Hormuz, a key transit route for the world’s oil tankers."
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• https://www.theguardian.com/busines...drone-markets-ftse-pound-brexit-business-live

 

[Sablon Audio]

Fwiw Northstar, even my 84 year old mother has the clarity of vision to state that my next car will be electric. The days of fossil fuelled motoring are fast drawing to a close, not least of all for those of us who live in congested cities.

 

[Folsom]

Yes, allegedly. Some siphon the money into their general funds, or so I've read. Extracted and then redirected. Who really knows where the money goes?

Sure, but that's like saying don't listen to vinyl because you might hear a few pops.

In general I agree though, it'd be nice to have more defined lines for what taxes actually pay for... the problem with that is then democracy starts working and you find out not everyone will fund everything. Sadly people are a bit selfish these days so you'd expect to see cuts from things that really mean something to someone in a good way.

 

[Sablon Audio]

Few Governments like the accountability and transparency that hypothecated tax entails!

 

[PeterA]

Sure, but that's like saying don't listen to vinyl because you might hear a few pops.

In general I agree though, it'd be nice to have more defined lines for what taxes actually pay for... the problem with that is then democracy starts working and you find out not everyone will fund everything. Sadly people are a bit selfish these days so you'd expect to see cuts from things that really mean something to someone in a good way.

Big debates here in MA between user fees and taxes. I prefer the former, as they are level or flat, and they affect all users equally. The gas tax seems to be more of a user fee, as only those who use the gas pay the tax, at a flat rate.

 

[Sablon Audio]

Peter, in my home town (Jersey, Channel Islands) they collect road tax at the pumps. That way those who use the roads the most, pay the most. This seems a pretty fair way of charging, though most of us likely realise that tax policy is more often directed by political expediency than equitable motives.

 

[KeithR]

Well one cannot argue with your thoughts but the reality is the electric vehicle is the the future here now and as time goes by EV's will be available in all shapes and sizes


Porsche is releasing their Taycan which last year they were taking reservations at a price of $65K. Last week Porsche announced that the MSRP base price of the car is $145K. There will be a turbo version taking it with options to almost $200K

This IMO is sheer insanity. Every car maker is entering the EV market and with gas in the range of $5/gallon and going higher one would have to be either independently wealthy not to care about the rising cost of fossil fuel or just plain wearing blinkers

As far as charging an EV most everyone I know uses the Super Charger stations. My son has been using the Super Charger station for the past year and has never paid a penny for dong such

1% of US sales despite Tesla (dying) hype for 5 years...ICE isn’t going anywhere soon.

When EVs can charge in five minutes, count me interested. To me, lithium ion battery tech is archaic.

 

[RogerD]

Back in the 1990's I viewed a interview of the Saudi oil minister on CNBC. He was asked how much oil supply is left to harvest? His answer was about 280 years. Not saying a thing about abiotic oil.
I do believe global warming or this 100 year drought cycle we are in is a major problem with a growing expanding population and economy.
Tesla has it's Gigafactory just a few miles east of me. EV vehicles IMHO have a ways to go or at least Tesla has safety problems that right now I don't want any part of.
A tax is piss poor method of income redistribution especially when it does not have a specific purpose. If the tax or a large part of it went to EV battery research that would be worthwhile.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I'm just about to renovate my 1968, 25 miles/gallon Citroën DS21. One could view that decision in light of this discussion in a few different ways Lol.

 

[NorthStar]

Fwiw Northstar, even my 84 year old mother has the clarity of vision to state that my next car will be electric. The days of fossil fuelled motoring are fast drawing to a close, not least of all for those of us who live in congested cities.

Exact same age as my Mom, 84.

All car companies are going electric (EV), so your Mom has a realistic vision, with a very good sense. My Mom too is super alert...she recommends me to purchase a horse as my next transportation.

Once I had a truck with dual gas tanks; I used it for work...with sometimes a camper on it...5 miles to the gallon (mountain roads). ...On the highway approximately 10 miles/gallon.

I don't know how an electric truck would be doing on steep hills ...

 

[NorthStar]

How long till electric airplanes, fighter jets, rocket missiles, spaceships?
...Electric drones?

 

[Bobvin]

I'll throw a monkey in the wrench... humankind is young. Our knowledge is embryonic. The internal combustion engine is what, less than 150 years old? I'm not giving mine up anytime soon, it allows me all kinds of freedoms and allows me to accomplish huge amounts of work. Granted, battery powered devices have replaced some of my small ICE devices, weed whackers, chain saws, etc. I can go well over 500 miles on a tank of gas in my pickup, I know of no EV that can do that yet. Can't imagine an EV will replace my little diesel tractor, which runs all day on a few gallons of diesel and with which I can do massive amounts of real 'work'.

I say burn it up, use it all as much and as fast as we want. The ICE era will go away in due time as costs become too high, or other alternatives arrive that are cheaper, or a technological revolution comes along. I am NOT in favor of my tax dollars subsidizing your EV. Buy your own damn EV, and when it is truly cost effective you will be able to afford it without gov't subsidizing.

I remember in the 70's when they spoke of "peak oil", that by 2000 all the reserves will have been tapped. Seems we have more sources now, and we've just begun the solar thing! I hate some politician telling me what to do, next thing they'll tell us we can't have our tube or class A amplifiers 'cause they're too inefficient. Or, they'll levy an "audiophile tax" because our hobby causes global warming/cooling/extinction event hysteria. Piss off I say, leave me the hell alone.

And, as mentioned above, the truth about what it takes to power an EV, in environmental terms should be transparent, including the costs of creating and disposing of all those EV batteries.

[/end rant]

 

[NorthStar]

EV batteries (Tesla) related ...
• https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-batteries-best-range-explained-auto-experts/

 

[Steve Williams]

1% of US sales despite Tesla (dying) hype for 5 years...ICE isn’t going anywhere soon.

When EVs can charge in five minutes, count me interested. To me, lithium ion battery tech is archaic.

To each our own Keith. FWIW I don't own an EV but I likely will in the next year as my wife wants one. I still have my SL 55 AMG and love it but not with the rise in gas prices.

Keith in 1950 the TV was 1% of sales and where is it now? So also owning a computer was 1% and look where it is now. Same with smart phones and everything else Keith. Progress is not something that stands still. I agree about batteries but there are big changes coming. Home batteries by the end of the year will be smaller , cost less and will hold more charge.

So also with EV's. At the moment our federal government is providing fairly significant tax credits for early adopters and those tax credits will be gone soon.

I think you might be a bit short sighted Keith. You're right the ICE is definitely going no where soon. I own an ICE What is going somewhere very soon is the continuous rising cost of fossil fuel. That is where you seem to be a bit short sighted IMHO

BTW Keith I am not a Tesla zealot but at the momentTesla seems to be the voice of the EV and you can be sure that Elon Musk is years ahead in R&D of the battery so he wants to engage in hyperbole but don't you perhaps seem to get wound up whenever Tesla is mentioned. Reminds me of someone we talked about yesterday in another thread

 

[jeff1225]

It will be VW that mainstreams EV's in the world. They have the largest R&D budget of any car manufacturer and have decided that EV's will pave their road to resumption from the clean diesel scandle.

 

[DaveC]

Electric or fuel cell cars ARE the future... just not with Li batteries!

I have no doubt the most efficient car is a small ICE car like a Honda Fit when everything is considered from start to end of the vehicle's life cycle, but with advances in energy storage and generation that will surely change.

IMO, what we really need to concentrate on is technology to control Earth's climate and revamping of our agricultural system away from massive factory farms of both plants and animals. Elimination of poverty and encouraging education in order to get population under control. An economic system that isn't based on infinite growth.

How we power our 5000 lb land barges isn't an issue, the fact that people commute to work long distances is more of an issue. Do you think eating an apple that traveled halfway around the world is better vs eating a burger made from a cow at a local organic farm? Solar vs gas for heating homes isn't an issue so much as massively oversized homes that cost a small fortune to heat and cool. Buildings use far more energy vs vehicles, it's not even close.

We're splitting hairs over inconsequential stuff and ignoring the big picture.

 

[NorthStar]

Start small end big ...
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? https://electrek.co/2019/09/16/egeb...finery-attack-south-africa-green-energy-plan/