CH Precision A1 VS Viva Aurora mono

[bonzo75]

Hi Ron, my point was not to make an assertion of SS vs tubes, which was in your post that I replied to (you asked How can SS sound more natural than tubes on vocals). I went to show it can, because natural vocals depend on Speaker-amp combination, and why - so I stated examples of better drive, more clarity, ability to see the vocalist opening his/her mouth, etc - as you can see, there are many such examples, including a horn (Yamamura). Even with Logans, when we put a lot of valves into Paul's system, the power amp was SS. I don't know what combination of power/current/grip is required, but generalizing, SS amps seem to have the better balance for such non-horn speakers. I still prefer the pre to be valves in many cases. But panels aside , for Wilson, Magico, etc, I would choose Dagostino, Vitus, Berning (ok, some valve there)...I haven't compared Mike's Dart and the Ch with any valve yet but won't be surprised if those too. I have heard Magico with Kondo Kagura and CJ and preferred the Vitus (compared only to Kondo). I can see some exceptions of easy to drive cones like Verity where I would choose valves, especially OTL. As you can see Mihalis moved from the Wavac SH 833 to Vitus, you should PM him and ask what he thinks of the vocals. I see no reason why valves should have a slam dunk over SS for vocals - I don't see it the other way either.

And yes, my horns amp search will be more like comparing OTLs to KR, Wyetech, Viva (prices aside), etc

 

[microstrip]

(...) (...) Sound of my system was dark,slow,without high frequency and not natural (...)

SoundLab A1 + B1 sounding "dark, slow, without high frequency and not natural" ? Most probably a fantastic system or room mismatch.

In the early 90's a good friend enjoyed so much the sound of my smaller SoundLab A4 that he become distributor of SoundLab, importing all the models. IMHO they sounded the opposite of what you describe - so much that more than 20 years later many people still refer to his first demo with A1's and big Atmaspheres's at an AudioShow as being their lifetime greatest audio experience.

 

[bonzo75]

My guess is that's the old MLs. Even the ML 33 was that way I think, rolled off and dark.

 

[gian60]

Sorry,
i wrong to explain.
A1 + B1 was more than amazing,and i had ML N 20 bridge so the power was 400 watt instead 100.
But in that time you could not understand the magic,natural and incredible sound i listen with amp 4 stack,200 kg push pull 845,with superpermalloy trans and horn super tweeter with beryllium
with an incredible driver hand made for monovia
Now for us listen a very good amp with 845 is normal but in 1989 no

 

[gian60]

This was the system
I was trying preamp YBA mono signature
Sub B1 arrived later,4 N 20 was ready for B1
Turntable is prototype of Yamamura with Pluto arm and below pre you see the Yamamura step up Art 9

 

[microstrip]

(...) 4) As a result of my amplifier research and replies to my amplifier inquiry thread postings, we have come up with a set of interesting and high-power SET and PSET amplifiers, all of which operate in Class A:

-- MastersounD PF100 (PSET - 117 watts)

-- Triode Corp. Reference M212 (PSET - 100 watts)

-- Wavac 833 (SET - 150 watts)

-- KR Audio Kronzilla DXL (PSET - 200 watts (transistor driver stage)

It is these amplifiers which should be compared to solid-state on vocals, not a 30 watt Viva Aurora, which simply may not be able to drive the speaker in question.

As you know, most of the time I have favored tubes in my system (also because I always felt they represented better value for money than SS), although I made some excursions in the solid state area. Since a few years ago, my respect for Constellation Audio top electronics developed, to the point that I decided to get the XLF's after listening to them with Constellation Audio - and particularly by the way they handled vocals in ancient music and string sections in large music.

A recent one week stay of the Centaur II and Virgo III in my listening room just confirmed my previous auditions. I am not a bass freak, I could stay immune to the best bass reproduction I ever experienced in my room .

Yesterday night, when reading with more care the article on Infinity and Arnie Nudell on the TAS book reported in WBF, I tumbled on this sentences in an Arnie Nudell interview:

Question
What current high-end audio products most impress you today?

Arnie Nudell

While I haven’t heard everything, two products really stand out in my mind
because they’re able to convey the musicality and emotion of a live concert.
The first is the new Modwright-modified Oppo BDP-105 universal disc player.
With the right program materials and the innovative use of vacuum tubes in the
analog section, and a full vacuum tube power supply, it does as good a job as
any source I’ve ever heard. It’s truly remarkable! Second are the amplifiers from
Constellation Audio designed by Bascom King. They are genuine breakthroughs
in solid-state design and don’t use conventional transistors. They’re just as good
as the big tube amplifiers I use as my reference, and that’s saying something
for solid-state electronics. Bascom is like Giuseppe Verdi, doing some of his
greatest work in his later years.


Just to say that IMHO you should compare the tube amplifiers you refer to the Centaur II or Hercules II amplifiers.

 

[pweg]

not wanting to be difficult i dont think we can make generalisations about brands and topologies like we do

i started off with a Vitus class A integrated amp driving Magicos and the sound was great - all with 25 watts. I then went to Marten (Coltrane Tenors)speakers. Then went to Vitus mono blocks. I didnt enjoy that sound - it was lean through the midband and i to my ears in my stem was not great with vocals. I then bought bigger Martens (Coltrane 3's) hoping that the bigger woofer area might add something. It didnt.

so i swapped out the Vitus for Triodes and things started to come together for me. Next week i have full set of Absolare Sets arriving.

I think there are too many variables and actually too may differences even within brands to generalise one thing over another and unfortunately at the end of the day we just have try everything in situ. Its a pain and its annoying and sometimes expensive, but its the only way.

 

[bonzo75]

Nice. Which Vitus monos? And are these the Absolare 845?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Ron, my point was not to make an assertion of SS vs tubes, which was in your post that I replied to (you asked How can SS sound more natural than tubes on vocals). I went to show it can, because natural vocals depend on Speaker-amp combination, and why - so I stated examples of better drive, more clarity, ability to see the vocalist opening his/her mouth, etc - as you can see, there are many such examples, including a horn (Yamamura). Even with Logans, when we put a lot of valves into Paul's system, the power amp was SS. I don't know what combination of power/current/grip is required, but generalizing, SS amps seem to have the better balance for such non-horn speakers. I still prefer the pre to be valves in many cases. But panels aside , for Wilson, Magico, etc, I would choose Dagostino, Vitus, Berning (ok, some valve there)...I haven't compared Mike's Dart and the Ch with any valve yet but won't be surprised if those too. I have heard Magico with Kondo Kagura and CJ and preferred the Vitus (compared only to Kondo). I can see some exceptions of easy to drive cones like Verity where I would choose valves, especially OTL. As you can see Mihalis moved from the Wavac SH 833 to Vitus, you should PM him and ask what he thinks of the vocals. I see no reason why valves should have a slam dunk over SS for vocals - I don't see it the other way either.

And yes, my horns amp search will be more like comparing OTLs to KR, Wyetech, Viva (prices aside), etc

Okay! All fair enough!

 

[Ron Resnick]

not wanting to be difficult i dont think we can make generalisations about brands and topologies like we do

i started off with a Vitus class A integrated amp driving Magicos and the sound was great - all with 25 watts. I then went to Marten (Coltrane Tenors)speakers. Then went to Vitus mono blocks. I didnt enjoy that sound - it was lean through the midband and i to my ears in my stem was not great with vocals. I then bought bigger Martens (Coltrane 3's) hoping that the bigger woofer area might add something. It didnt.

so i swapped out the Vitus for Triodes and things started to come together for me. Next week i have full set of Absolare Sets arriving.

I think there are too many variables and actually too may differences even within brands to generalise one thing over another and unfortunately at the end of the day we just have try everything in situ. Its a pain and its annoying and sometimes expensive, but its the only way.

Thank you for telling us about the evolution of your system. What you wrote makes a lot of sense to me.

I personally find the Coltranes lean/cool sounding. A bigger woofer is not going to change that midrange leanness. It makes perfect sense to me that a SET amplifier is a better match for a lean-tilting midrange.

 

[awsmone]

Ron

Can i ask are your ribbon speakers true ribbons or quasi ribbons
And do they use a transformer ?

would help understand amplifier requirements

 

[pweg]

Monos were SM 011 fed with siltech ruby double crown power cords - yes Absolares are 845

 

[microstrip]

not wanting to be difficult i dont think we can make generalisations about brands and topologies like we do
(...)
I think there are too many variables and actually too may differences even within brands to generalise one thing over another and unfortunately at the end of the day we just have try everything in situ. Its a pain and its annoying and sometimes expensive, but its the only way.

+1!

But learning from other people individual opinions on sound quality of equipment can prepare us for a better evaluation and even trigger our curiosity on products that we would never try otherwise.

 

[heihei]

Monos were SM 011 fed with siltech ruby double crown power cords - yes Absolares are 845

While I initially liked the SM 011's once i started to compare them the weaknesses were easily revealed and as you state. If you want to stick with Vitus, the SS-103 is waaaay better and same money.
Away from Vitus, I can recommend Berning Quadrature Z's at the same money. It is the most transparent, natural-sounding amp I demo'd so I bought a pair. Otherwise I'd agree that Constellation gets closest of the stuff I've heard.

 

[morricab]

Ron

Can i ask are your ribbon speakers true ribbons or quasi ribbons
And do they use a transformer ?

would help understand amplifier requirements

Pendragon uses what is more correctly referred to as a planar magnetic driver rather than a true ribbon. It is a pretty flat 4-6 ohm without transformers.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron

Can i ask are your ribbon speakers true ribbons or quasi ribbons
And do they use a transformer ?

would help understand amplifier requirements

I think it is a quasi-ribbon (not attached only at the top and at the bottom).

I do not think there is a transformer.

 

[gian60]

Now i am very happy because when i told i sold 2 Kondo Souga to replace with CH and CH amp,now M1 mono,are better than all tube i had in my life some was thinking i became crazy,but i read now in CH forum what Priator wrote :

"M1 drives my NOLA CGR,speaker designed around tubes,better than any tube amp i have ever heard.

So i am happy because at least there are 2 crazy in this forum and not i alone

 

[bonzo75]

Now i am very happy because when i told i sold 2 Kondo Souga to replace with CH and CH amp,now M1 mono,are better than all tube i had in my life some was thinking i became crazy,but i read now in CH forum what Priator wrote :

"M1 drives my NOLA CGR,speaker designed around tubes,better than any tube amp i have ever heard.

So i am happy because at least there are 2 crazy in this forum and not i alone

You are still the craziest Gian, you have gone through more gear than underwear

 

[gian60]

I WAS JOCKING

I had a lot of beautiful thing in my life and after 40 years i can tell there are a lot of fantastic product,expensive and also not a lot of expensive,only problem is do the right chain
I had Tube preamp Yamamura,Dissanayake more than amazing,Audiotekne and Souga amp also,a lot of i never listen like AC,Trafomatic,Wavac top,Lampizator,for example
I remember i had in 1990/92 preamp mono Dennesen Gold,for that time was amazing
So we are talking and joking and trial,but we can do a lot of very beautiful system at any price

 

[bonzo75]

I know Gian, that said, Jocking is a good pun on underwear