Chinese DAC shames a few heavy hitters
- Thread starter nc42acc
- Start date
Maybe it's working the output stage too hard. Besides loss of dynamics, is there improvements in other areas? Even when I use DAC's and CD players with weak output stages direct to amps I can still hear clear improvements in detail and clarity.
I think the lack of dynamics I hear is the preamp exaggerating them. The more I listen to the X20 direct to the ST100 it sounds amazing, and this is removing an ARC REF5SE from the chain. Go figure.
Yes that's what I usually find. Give it a couple weeks of listening direct and then go back. This is when you will really realize how much grit the preamp adds. It takes time for ears to adjust.
Agreed with my system also. Vrs the Vega and the Yggy, the Gustard wins easily with no mods. AND I really did NOT want it to win, as the Yggy is American born (GO USA!) I wish they had named the Gustard X20 something more exotic
Now I just have to wait for Lunar New Year to get over so I can order one.Agreed with my system also. Vrs the Vega and the Yggy, the Gustard wins easily with no mods. AND I really did NOT want it to win, as the Yggy is American born (GO USA!) I wish they had named the Gustard X20 something more exotic
The preamp is NOT going back into the system Mike. The X20 seems to be made to drive a power amp.
Perfect! I figured that much. Most modern DAC's with volume controls are designed to power amps direct. If you need analog inputs, or higher output to drive your amps, I recommend a true DAC/Pre combo unit. Lot's of them popping up lately.
Hang in there, I sold my amp and had to make another one....just now finished and this one sounds even better!....so I can finally begin the modding (have not listened to it...only bench tested it). Have been burning it in.....in the bathroom.....really! I have to finish modding an Oppo 105D in the next couple of days but I will do the first listening and first baby mods as well. I will report back by end of week....by then I will have replaced the entire output stage.
Finally heard this DAC unmodded against a Yggy that has been modded. I can't say is a giant killer. The Yggy was much better. It did a nice job with DSD and I will likely grab one to add native DSD playback to my system. However, it made all PCM sound similar. Way too smoothed over. I will be keeping my Gumby for PCM. Of course, YMMV.
Had to do more mods to the amp and speakers and player but finally yesterday the system was sounding glorious (modded Oppo 103D as source), so hooked the Creamy Custard DAC into the system via homemade coax from Oppo digital out. Very detailed but hard as nails.....yes, I understand the "forced sound" comments now. So, first mod was to bypass the fuse with copper foil......much richer and less hard but still hard.....so next was to change the magnetic steel bolts holding down the transformers to non magnetic brass hardware.....much better and less hard but something missing.....so, I removed the bolts altogether (now there is nothing conductive in the middle of the trannies)......OMG!!!!! Goose bump city.....almost all hardness gone and this thing is now in another whole league (three dimensional holy crap!). All listening done with cover off (who needs a stinkin cover!). How much do these first two mods cost? 2 cents for the copper foil and nothing for the removal of bolts.....How much better does it sound?....well, about $2000 worth......maybe exaggerating a couple of hundred. BTW, this Gustard has had at least 2 weeks burn in before listening (over 300 hours). As the song goes "We've only just begun!". Please try these mods and report back. If bypassing the fuse scares you then get an expensive audiophile fuse. The copper foil I use to bypass the fuse has conductive adhesive on the back (available cheap everywhere). I can mail you enough to cover several fuses for $2 if you like. Warning, warning, warning....Do not bypass fuses in tube products or power amps....warning, warning, warning! You wrap the fuse once only with the copper foil....if it gets too thick you won't be able to re-insert the fuse.
Gustard still has stock feet sitting on maple platform which sits on Oppo which has Mad Scientist Ceramic footers underneath sitting on another maple slab that sits on top of a very non inflated tractor tire. The amp is my own design 25 watt class A two stage all fet dual mono crazy thang and the speakers are hardwired using Neotech 14 gauge Litz.....speakers (92db) are handmade using open baffle B&G Neo 10 and 3 planar drivers on top and two 6.5 inch woofers underneath in sealed box. All xover parts pretty out there and everything hardwired. Felt around the drivers, Ground Enhancers, etc. etc. Shunt volume control in amp. The Gustard at -9 puts out the exact voltage my Oppo does (1.19V). The Gustard puts out 3.3V per phase and then doubles if you use the +6db mode and doubles again in +12db mode. The +12db mode will actually clip the full 0db signal because the output stage cannot swing that much voltage. 3.3 volts per phase is already high.....I have no idea why they did these other two modes.
Next up will be to damp a ringing part and then add WA Quantum dots to DAC chips and capacitors. After that I remove entire output stage and put my own in there. However, I am surprised it sounds so good now with three amp circuits in series with the output (two op amps and then another discrete stage).
Gustard still has stock feet sitting on maple platform which sits on Oppo which has Mad Scientist Ceramic footers underneath sitting on another maple slab that sits on top of a very non inflated tractor tire. The amp is my own design 25 watt class A two stage all fet dual mono crazy thang and the speakers are hardwired using Neotech 14 gauge Litz.....speakers (92db) are handmade using open baffle B&G Neo 10 and 3 planar drivers on top and two 6.5 inch woofers underneath in sealed box. All xover parts pretty out there and everything hardwired. Felt around the drivers, Ground Enhancers, etc. etc. Shunt volume control in amp. The Gustard at -9 puts out the exact voltage my Oppo does (1.19V). The Gustard puts out 3.3V per phase and then doubles if you use the +6db mode and doubles again in +12db mode. The +12db mode will actually clip the full 0db signal because the output stage cannot swing that much voltage. 3.3 volts per phase is already high.....I have no idea why they did these other two modes.
Next up will be to damp a ringing part and then add WA Quantum dots to DAC chips and capacitors. After that I remove entire output stage and put my own in there. However, I am surprised it sounds so good now with three amp circuits in series with the output (two op amps and then another discrete stage).
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Hmm not liking the "hard as nails" comment. My Gustard is on the truck for delivery today, so I'll find out shortl for myself.
Don't panic when you first fire the X20 into your system. Give it a full 24hours powered up and then be critical. If after that you are still in a panic PM me and we will work out me buying it.
You have to try these first two mods!!!!...then you will understand what I am saying. Images are way bigger, way more space. palpability, naturalness, richness.....way, way less hard and forced.....this is not subtle. It sounds good stock....and if you have a not so detailed system then the edginess is probably not apparent.....but my system is super detailed and revealing. And now, I am getting goose bumps from this Creamy Custard.......whereas stock I was getting nails in my head with the stock Gustard........the creamy stuff is good! Take two and call me in the morning. I will have more simple mods that anyone can do, as well. Nothing tried = nothing gained.
By the way, the Gustard is not "warm" stock. It was not voiced that way.....or probably any way. My modded Oppo sounds way more rich and palpable than the stock Gustard. With these two mods the Gustard now sounds way richer.....tonally almost exactly the same as my modded Oppo.
By the way, the Gustard is not "warm" stock. It was not voiced that way.....or probably any way. My modded Oppo sounds way more rich and palpable than the stock Gustard. With these two mods the Gustard now sounds way richer.....tonally almost exactly the same as my modded Oppo.
Marty,
Great Idea. Did we have this conversation on another forum? Anyway, get some and try it. I will too.
Ric
Great Idea. Did we have this conversation on another forum? Anyway, get some and try it. I will too.
Ric
Don't panic when you first fire the X20 into your system. Give it a full 24hours powered up and then be critical. If after that you are still in a panic PM me and we will work out me buying it.
Not panicing (is that a word?--looks like icing on a pan when typed ;-) )
I have a fundamental issue with shorting out the fuse, so that "mod" is off the table. I'm less concerned with having the tranformer rattling around, although the nylon bolt idea seems decent. I also have some Daedalus bearing vibration isolation pucks (DIDs) that I'll try, and a few different power cords and USB cables to play around with.
I'll give 'er a listen when I get home and see how she breaks in. After a week or so of running 24/7 I'll do some critical listening.
My system is pretty revealing, so we'll see.
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