Don't worry, Don. Any further post that is related to that topic will be deleted. You have enough to worry about. 10 miles away is no joke. My families prayers are still with you and yours. Best wishes for a good outcome.
Tom
Colorado Fires
- Thread starter DonH50
- Start date
Tom
----- No problemo Don; da was not my original intent anyway, it's just what I read the other day on possible cause. ...And because eventually this will come back on the table, plus much more on the US federal government, forest services, and laws of the lands...
It is important to determine all those factors as we want to prevent, and help fighting much more efficiently & quickly with all our resources at our disposition.
Last fall Texas wildfires should be a good example of things to do the right way and more quickly.
A lot of mistakes were made then, and we should learn from them.
You don't fool around about disasters of those 'envergures'; you act quickly, and you want all the material resources ready to go. Prevention & fast actions are essential on protecting human's life.
I spent the major part of today's morning on reading and watching more on the Colorado fires, and there is a lot at stake here... It makes you reflect on what's most important in this life.
And automatically you cannot escape the human emotions, tragedies with all that it encompasses. ...And even the causes. ...Because after all, the final results at the end are directly related to the beginning.
Canada is providing help to the Coloradans, and if I was in that line of work, I would be right away on the front line, right on the edge of the flames with other firefighters. It is one of the toughest jobs in the entire world. Your lungs are taking a huge beating. ...And some are dying fighting hard.
Go ahead Don and share your own personal views and emotions ...
{And please, don't read more than what it is.}
You have all my prayers right now, as well all your friends and neighbors,
Bob
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Just saw some of the recent photos and it amazes me that entire neighborhoods can be destroyed and 2 or 3 perfectly intact houses remain? Did they just get lucky or did they have some kind of outdoor sprinkler systems?
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
my daughter just phoned to say that her roommate who comes from Colorado Springs, house totally burned to the ground
346 houses gone. Local news compared it to a tornado in the way some houses destroyed and others not touched (apparently). IC Incident Commander) and CSFD (Colorado Springs Fire Depatrment) said mostly a function of where fiefighters were and what they could save (triage). My guess: combination of fire path, clearance around the houses (mitigation by homwoener), wind, and luck plus extremely active fire people who busted their buns trying to save what they could. There were entire swaths of houses destroyed in some places. City meeting with people now to explain who lost, who won; has to be a terrible meeting (private meeting, just folk on the affected streets there to find out if they have a home left).
Good day today, first day no Red Flag Warning snce fire started, a little cooler, higher humidity. Containment went from 5% to 15% and size estimate down a hair. Lot of lines drawn and held! Still, now the most structures destroyed of any Colorado wildfire on record according to media.
My workplace now off mandatory evacuation (lifted at 8pm, back to pre-evac status) but no work tomorrow. They have to check out the building, verify air quality, etc. We know some servers down, and coolers only about 50% capacity, they think due to smoke/ash damage. Remains to be seen if damaged or just clogged. Received word several friends/employees lost homes; many people lived in the subdivisions just north of work, right where the fire went through.
Flying W Ranch, a popular tourist place for 60 years (been there several times) burned down, but tonight reported the small herd of cattle on the premises somehow survived. Amazing...
Just replaced the 3-month air filter in our HVAC system for the second time in little over a week. Hoping we an get the smell of smoke out of the house...
Thanks for all your thoughts! - Don
p.s. Picture from Tuesday afternoon of the hill behind work just a little before the evacuation order.
Good day today, first day no Red Flag Warning snce fire started, a little cooler, higher humidity. Containment went from 5% to 15% and size estimate down a hair. Lot of lines drawn and held! Still, now the most structures destroyed of any Colorado wildfire on record according to media.
My workplace now off mandatory evacuation (lifted at 8pm, back to pre-evac status) but no work tomorrow. They have to check out the building, verify air quality, etc. We know some servers down, and coolers only about 50% capacity, they think due to smoke/ash damage. Remains to be seen if damaged or just clogged. Received word several friends/employees lost homes; many people lived in the subdivisions just north of work, right where the fire went through.
Flying W Ranch, a popular tourist place for 60 years (been there several times) burned down, but tonight reported the small herd of cattle on the premises somehow survived. Amazing...
Just replaced the 3-month air filter in our HVAC system for the second time in little over a week. Hoping we an get the smell of smoke out of the house...
Thanks for all your thoughts! - Don
p.s. Picture from Tuesday afternoon of the hill behind work just a little before the evacuation order.
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Virginia Wildfires are milder. But we have ambient temperatures in the +100 degree range. http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/04/-virginia-wildfires-burn-more-than-7-000-acres-74812.html
That was the problem Tuesday here -- 100+ degF + 2% (yes, two) humidity + winds gusting to 65 mph = firestorm. Weather been much better yesterday and today (15% humidity, winds less, "only" mid-90's) so containment is growing. I should be able to go back to work Monday; am already picking up tasks to help those still evacuated (some of whom have very likely lost homes).
Fires anywhere are devasting; hope those are not near you?
Fires anywhere are devasting; hope those are not near you?
I am picking up tasks at work for some who have been evacuated. Several people I work with have almost certainly lost homes; they live in the subdivisions where those pictures were taken. Embers (reported up to football-sized) fly around and start fires so one house may burn while the next is OK (assuming firefighters get in to dowse water on everything before the fire jumps to the next house). Most people don't realize just how hot a wildfire can burn (1500 - 2000 degF + ), and how complete the destruction of a home. Nothing but ash and slag. Moisture in concrete super heats and explodes it apart, and the concrete crumbles from the heat. The ground turns brittle and glassy. A tornado (yeah, been in those too) can leave trash everywhere; a bad fire leaves nothing.
Many more people back in their homes (now on pre-evac status again). Few homes burglarized; guess thieves took advantage. Even worse, some evacuees put everything they could get in their cars, and the cars were burglarized. Scum. Some waiting because they have not been able to restore utilities; others because fire is still active/smoldering in the area (still a few hot spots in the city). Hotter and windier today and even more so tomorrow. Lots of nervous people. I live far enough away and control is such that I should not be nervous but I get the shakes watching TV knowing it could happen here. Going to go do something else for a while...
p.s. Do not want this to go political, but President Obama did a quick in and out, visiting a fire station, toured the neighborhood in the pix above and spoke with firefighters, and visited an evac center. Pretty low-key and a big boost for a lot of people. I do NOT like the guy and loathe his policies but this was a Very Good Thing. Kudos.
Many more people back in their homes (now on pre-evac status again). Few homes burglarized; guess thieves took advantage. Even worse, some evacuees put everything they could get in their cars, and the cars were burglarized. Scum. Some waiting because they have not been able to restore utilities; others because fire is still active/smoldering in the area (still a few hot spots in the city). Hotter and windier today and even more so tomorrow. Lots of nervous people. I live far enough away and control is such that I should not be nervous but I get the shakes watching TV knowing it could happen here. Going to go do something else for a while...
p.s. Do not want this to go political, but President Obama did a quick in and out, visiting a fire station, toured the neighborhood in the pix above and spoke with firefighters, and visited an evac center. Pretty low-key and a big boost for a lot of people. I do NOT like the guy and loathe his policies but this was a Very Good Thing. Kudos.
They are a long way from that... There are tip lines open, but investigators still cannot get into the fire area. I have heard reports of several days to a week or two, maybe more. Lots of suspicions, of course, since there were not any known storms or lightning strikes during the possible ignition times. Arson, terrorists, smoldering campfire, cigarette, all kinds of speculations. There are still some large unburned areas they are torching or letting burn out in the middle area of the fire, plus some controlled burns (house is still smoky); all resources are focused on containment (at 45% as of the 4 pm briefing) and watching for/putting out hot spots.
Another pretty good day, but high wind warnings going up tomorrow into next week. Still ~10,000 people evacuated, down from 32,000, and more going back tonight. But, utilities is having trouble getting service restored due to severe damage ranging from broken lines to burnt up transformers. I am wondering about my workplace; they were able to get back in Thursday night, I think, but no word yet. Speculation is some damage to HVAC from ash and such, but no firm news. There have been some burglaries and vandalism in the area; hopefully that is not part of the cause but who knows.
I read there are hundreds of fires in the US, 52 "large", and 7 of those in Colorado. The rest of the country is having its own problems, from fires to storms. Wild summer, and a long way to go yet.
Stay safe, all. - Don
Another pretty good day, but high wind warnings going up tomorrow into next week. Still ~10,000 people evacuated, down from 32,000, and more going back tonight. But, utilities is having trouble getting service restored due to severe damage ranging from broken lines to burnt up transformers. I am wondering about my workplace; they were able to get back in Thursday night, I think, but no word yet. Speculation is some damage to HVAC from ash and such, but no firm news. There have been some burglaries and vandalism in the area; hopefully that is not part of the cause but who knows.
I read there are hundreds of fires in the US, 52 "large", and 7 of those in Colorado. The rest of the country is having its own problems, from fires to storms. Wild summer, and a long way to go yet.
Stay safe, all. - Don
I am sorry to hear of this, Don. Our families prayers are still with you, your community and loved ones. I'm still drenched from sweat at 11:15 at night [just got finished working on the garden for tonight] but my woes are nothing compared to what you and the ones that surround you have faced or may be possibly facing. It makes my gripes about the heat rather insignificant, to be honest.
Best wishes again for a good outcome and thank you for taking the time to answer.
Tom
Best wishes again for a good outcome and thank you for taking the time to answer.
Tom
Rain yesterday on the fire, great news! 80% contained yesterday and most evacuees back home (though many without some utilities). Four people I work with lost their homes (and I am sure there are others at work I do not know or have not heard about just yet). Opened up the windows this morning for the first time since it all started; nice to smell pines instead of fires! It will still be burning and smoldering for some time, but a pleasant way to start Independence Day. Virtually all local activities are cancelled (parades, fireworks, etc.) but still a day of celebration -- and reflection.
All the best - Don
All the best - Don
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
I guess it does pay to be Rich....
Insurance companies send crews to protect homes
By P. SOLOMON BANDA
Associated Press
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (AP) -- When firefighter Eric Morris shows up at wildfires across the West, locals battling the flames sometimes look at him and wonder who sent him.
The answer isn't a public agency. It's an insurance company.
Morris is among a group of private firefighters hired in recent years to protect homes with high-end insurance policies. In a wildfire season that is one of the busiest and most destructive ever to hit the region, authorities and residents say their help is welcome.
"There's curiosity the first time they work with us," he said. "After a while of explaining and making some calls to the right people, they let us right in."
Morris and his nine-man crew helped protect 35 homes in Colorado Springs in the most destructive fire in the state's history. It killed two people and destroyed 346 homes.
There are no numbers available for how many homes these firefighters save and, given the unpredictable nature of fires, few are willing to take credit.
For insurers, hiring their own crew is worth the cost. They spend thousands on well-equipped, federally rated firefighters, potentially saving hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars to replace a home and its contents.
Insurance companies began sending crews to wildfires around 2006, said Paul Broyles, former head of fire operations at the National Interagency Fire Center, which coordinates federal firefighting efforts from Boise, Idaho. Land use changes in the past two decades have allowed more homes to be built in or near wildfire-prone areas, prompting the insurance companies to offer such a service, said Michael Barry of the New York-based industry funded Insurance Information Institute.
"They got a job to do just like we do, and it's a legitimate response by the insurance companies," Broyles said.
Morris' crew worked for Chubb Personal Insurance, which provides coverage for homes typically valued between $400,000 and $3 million, said Kevin Fuhriman, the company's personal lines catastrophe manager.
"It's an added layer of protection for our clients," Fuhriman said. "From a business perspective? It's an extremely advantageous business proposition."
Other companies offer fire protection services, typically for higher-end clients, said Carole Walker, executive director of the Rocky Mountain Insurance Information Association.
"Just because you don't have this type of policy doesn't mean you don't have fire protection," Walker insisted. "That's what people pay taxes for, and (public) firefighters do a wonderful job protecting homes. I mean, they saved hundreds of homes on this fire."
C.J. Moore, who was digging through the ashes of her home in the hard hit Mountain Shadows subdivision, said she would have bought a policy with fire protection if she could afford it. She noted, however, that sometimes having money isn't enough to save your home.
"The fire went through this neighborhood so fast there was no hope for these houses," she said. "The fire burned so hot that the driveways look like they were hit by a jackhammer."
Morris works for Wildland Defense Systems of Red Lodge, Mont. It has worked alongside the federal firefighting system for years, responding to more than 80 wildfires since 2008, said the company's president, David Torgerson.
Wildland has 50 engines and about 100 firefighters strategically located in 11 Western states, the Dakotas and Texas.
The private crews work closely with - and report to - incident commanders at the scene. Their presence means other firefighters can focus on other structures, said Greg Huele, a spokesman with the federal team in charge of the Colorado Springs fire.
"We can't be in there freelancing," Morris said. "Everything we do is coordinated."
Morris and his crew deployed from near Ruidoso, N.M., to Colorado Springs hours after the fire erupted June 23.
Morris showed up at the fire with three so-called brush trucks, each capable of carrying 450 gallons of water, and a tanker truck that carries 1,200 gallons. Their main focus was protecting homes by reducing the number places a fire can take hold.
They close doors and windows left open by fleeing evacuees. They move flammable materials away from Chubb-insured homes - patio furniture, shrubs, even pine needles collected in gutters - that can ignite. They also use inflatable water tanks to feed sprinkler systems to wet down the house and surrounding area.
The crews also carry 5-gallon tubs of a fire retardant gel that when mixed with water can coat a house with a thin wet layer to keep flying embers from igniting the house.
It's a last ditch effort to protect homes that Morris' crew had to employ three times before they evacuated the Cedar Heights neighborhood for their safety.
The crews focus their efforts on insured homes that are facing the greatest threat from the wildfire without regard for the home's value, Fuhriman said.
Chubb, Wildland or Morris would not take credit for all of Chubb's insured homes surviving the blaze. They point instead to the effort of more than 1,500 firefighters.
In some instances, only one or two home survived on a street while the rest burned to the foundation. That can be attributed to the random nature of fire, which left some homes in a smoldering heap while sparing trees and shrubs, even mail inside a mailbox.
In other instances, homes survived because it's where public firefighters were able to safely defend the home, Colorado Springs Fire Chief Rich Brown said.
"Having your home burn to the ground is devastating," said Bill Simmons, whose home survived and who does not have an insurance policy offering individual home protection. "I hope everybody would appreciate any help that you have."
© 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.
Insurance companies send crews to protect homes
By P. SOLOMON BANDA
Associated Press
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (AP) -- When firefighter Eric Morris shows up at wildfires across the West, locals battling the flames sometimes look at him and wonder who sent him.
The answer isn't a public agency. It's an insurance company.
Morris is among a group of private firefighters hired in recent years to protect homes with high-end insurance policies. In a wildfire season that is one of the busiest and most destructive ever to hit the region, authorities and residents say their help is welcome.
"There's curiosity the first time they work with us," he said. "After a while of explaining and making some calls to the right people, they let us right in."
Morris and his nine-man crew helped protect 35 homes in Colorado Springs in the most destructive fire in the state's history. It killed two people and destroyed 346 homes.
There are no numbers available for how many homes these firefighters save and, given the unpredictable nature of fires, few are willing to take credit.
For insurers, hiring their own crew is worth the cost. They spend thousands on well-equipped, federally rated firefighters, potentially saving hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars to replace a home and its contents.
Insurance companies began sending crews to wildfires around 2006, said Paul Broyles, former head of fire operations at the National Interagency Fire Center, which coordinates federal firefighting efforts from Boise, Idaho. Land use changes in the past two decades have allowed more homes to be built in or near wildfire-prone areas, prompting the insurance companies to offer such a service, said Michael Barry of the New York-based industry funded Insurance Information Institute.
"They got a job to do just like we do, and it's a legitimate response by the insurance companies," Broyles said.
Morris' crew worked for Chubb Personal Insurance, which provides coverage for homes typically valued between $400,000 and $3 million, said Kevin Fuhriman, the company's personal lines catastrophe manager.
"It's an added layer of protection for our clients," Fuhriman said. "From a business perspective? It's an extremely advantageous business proposition."
Other companies offer fire protection services, typically for higher-end clients, said Carole Walker, executive director of the Rocky Mountain Insurance Information Association.
"Just because you don't have this type of policy doesn't mean you don't have fire protection," Walker insisted. "That's what people pay taxes for, and (public) firefighters do a wonderful job protecting homes. I mean, they saved hundreds of homes on this fire."
C.J. Moore, who was digging through the ashes of her home in the hard hit Mountain Shadows subdivision, said she would have bought a policy with fire protection if she could afford it. She noted, however, that sometimes having money isn't enough to save your home.
"The fire went through this neighborhood so fast there was no hope for these houses," she said. "The fire burned so hot that the driveways look like they were hit by a jackhammer."
Morris works for Wildland Defense Systems of Red Lodge, Mont. It has worked alongside the federal firefighting system for years, responding to more than 80 wildfires since 2008, said the company's president, David Torgerson.
Wildland has 50 engines and about 100 firefighters strategically located in 11 Western states, the Dakotas and Texas.
The private crews work closely with - and report to - incident commanders at the scene. Their presence means other firefighters can focus on other structures, said Greg Huele, a spokesman with the federal team in charge of the Colorado Springs fire.
"We can't be in there freelancing," Morris said. "Everything we do is coordinated."
Morris and his crew deployed from near Ruidoso, N.M., to Colorado Springs hours after the fire erupted June 23.
Morris showed up at the fire with three so-called brush trucks, each capable of carrying 450 gallons of water, and a tanker truck that carries 1,200 gallons. Their main focus was protecting homes by reducing the number places a fire can take hold.
They close doors and windows left open by fleeing evacuees. They move flammable materials away from Chubb-insured homes - patio furniture, shrubs, even pine needles collected in gutters - that can ignite. They also use inflatable water tanks to feed sprinkler systems to wet down the house and surrounding area.
The crews also carry 5-gallon tubs of a fire retardant gel that when mixed with water can coat a house with a thin wet layer to keep flying embers from igniting the house.
It's a last ditch effort to protect homes that Morris' crew had to employ three times before they evacuated the Cedar Heights neighborhood for their safety.
The crews focus their efforts on insured homes that are facing the greatest threat from the wildfire without regard for the home's value, Fuhriman said.
Chubb, Wildland or Morris would not take credit for all of Chubb's insured homes surviving the blaze. They point instead to the effort of more than 1,500 firefighters.
In some instances, only one or two home survived on a street while the rest burned to the foundation. That can be attributed to the random nature of fire, which left some homes in a smoldering heap while sparing trees and shrubs, even mail inside a mailbox.
In other instances, homes survived because it's where public firefighters were able to safely defend the home, Colorado Springs Fire Chief Rich Brown said.
"Having your home burn to the ground is devastating," said Bill Simmons, whose home survived and who does not have an insurance policy offering individual home protection. "I hope everybody would appreciate any help that you have."
© 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.
----- 
...Most informative, and certainly a good incentive for insurance companies.
...And everything else that ensued from it (job's creation, house's protection, etc.).
Spend money to save money; that's the smart way.
_______________________
As an aside; I believe that residential areas should be at a secure distance from any forest.
I know it's a tough call as so many such areas are right in the forests.
Right here on Vancouver Island it's full of places like that; residential areas right in the forests. ...And with views on the ocean.
People pay big bucks for that too (millions of dollars), and the price you paid is the price you get.
Don't get me wrong; I'm a forest man, I always was and always will be. I know the ups, and I know the downs.
Life is a delicate balance that we learn and experience with time. All the preparation and planification in the world cannot protect us and our possessions in the way we envisage them.
I'm just sharing my thoughts.
...Most informative, and certainly a good incentive for insurance companies....And everything else that ensued from it (job's creation, house's protection, etc.).
Spend money to save money; that's the smart way.
_______________________
As an aside; I believe that residential areas should be at a secure distance from any forest.
I know it's a tough call as so many such areas are right in the forests.
Right here on Vancouver Island it's full of places like that; residential areas right in the forests. ...And with views on the ocean.
People pay big bucks for that too (millions of dollars), and the price you paid is the price you get.
Don't get me wrong; I'm a forest man, I always was and always will be. I know the ups, and I know the downs.
Life is a delicate balance that we learn and experience with time. All the preparation and planification in the world cannot protect us and our possessions in the way we envisage them.
I'm just sharing my thoughts.
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