Computer Audio: confusing, complicated, & INCONVENIENT. About MUSIC or inner nerd?

[microstrip]

(...) My current digital chain is a purpose built Core Audio Windows 8 server with outboard linear power supplies, an Empirical Audio USB to AES converter with an outboard Hynes supply, directly into the digital stage of the Trinnov. I no longer have a vinyl chain.

Are you using the Trinnov Amethist? Do you know why they prefer to have a 96KHz ADC and a 192 KHz DAC?

 

[rbbert]

I could be wrong, but I don't think mep even knows what "his system" sounds like currently, since he doesn't have the speakers, and when they do arrive they will have to spend some time breaking in...

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I owned my Def Tech speakers for over 8 years and they just recently were sold. The Krell gear was in my system since 2011 and was still in my system in 2014. Steve is the one that said on Marty's system you couldn't tell the difference between a DSD file and a PCM file. So either you believe that all digital files sound the same if the room has been tamed and all sources now sound identical or you have to ask yourself if the sound is being homogenized. I have proffered my opinion on what I think and why I think it. No one has to agree with me though some have and some others that I know feel the same way I do have kept on the sidelines.

As for you, you are just another BB in a box rattling around making a lot of noise when you don't have DSP in your system either and you are taking this opportunity on open season on me to jump in with both of your non-DSP feet. Another atheist preaching to me about getting DSP religion.

Bold 1: that's the one remark I referred to in my last post, that led you to conclude that DSP is "homogenizing."

Bold 2: again, my use of DSP is irrelevant to the conversation.

Bold 3: live by the sword...

Tim

 

[mep]

I could be wrong, but I don't think mep even knows what "his system" sounds like currently, since he doesn't have the speakers, and when they do arrive they will have to spend some time breaking in...

Partially correct. A friend of mine lent me a pair of Wilson Benesch ACT speakers to use until my KOs finally arrive. I have been waiting since March for them to arrive. In the meantime, I sold my long term reference speakers to help fund all of the upgrades I made which include the Ref 5SE and Ref 75 amp. According to ARC's recommendation of 600 hours for break in, neither one are broken in yet. I now have a handle on the ACT speakers and they are the best monitors I have heard in my home. The integral stands that come with them although beautiful in design and execution are simply too short. I have a couple of wooden bases made from plywood and filled with sand that I use to review monoblock amps that are now sitting underneath the ACT speakers which brings them to the proper height for me.

 

[Brucemck2]

Are you using the Trinnov Amethist? Do you know why they prefer to have a 96KHz ADC and a 192 KHz DAC?

I'm using an ADA Reference. Curt Hoyt set up a direct connection to the upper Trinnov section of the unit, so I bypass the ADA section and feed the dacs' receivers directly. For digital inputs it runs at the native sample rate of what it's being fed, with a 96k constraint in my case imposed by the Empirical Audio USB coverter. I don't use the A to D section (yet).

 

[mep]

Bold 1: that's the one remark I referred to in my last post, that led you to conclude that DSP is "homogenizing."

Bold 2: again, my use of DSP is irrelevant to the conversation.

Bold 3: live by the sword...

Tim

Not when you are taking me to task for not considering it for my system. You aren't considering it either and you are a tailor-made customer for DSP. If you want to be a DSP cowboy and pull out your six shooter DSP gun on me because I don't want it in my system, it would make much more sense if you are someone who actually uses DSP in their system and can tell me all the wonderful things it has done for your system.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Not when you are taking me to task for not considering it for my system. You aren't considering it either and you are a tailor-made customer for DSP. If you want to be a DSP cowboy and pull out your six shooter DSP gun on me because I don't want it in my system, it would make much more sense if you are someone who actually uses DSP in their system and can tell me all the wonderful things it has done for your system.

You're not listening. I'm not taking you to task for not considering it in your system. I'm simply amused to see you completely dismissing it based on Steve's remark and the fact that it adds a generation of digital conversion. My rules aren't nearly as demanding as yours, Mark. I don't expect you to have lived with DSP to have a valid opinion; I do, however, expect you to have heard it to completely dismiss it.

Tim

 

[GaryProtein]

I suppose I should feel very guilty.

digital computer music is so easy.

my son, the network engineer, has me all set up with my server upstairs, and dialed in. he remotely loads lots of 2xdsd rips regularly onto my server. I have about 10 terabytes of mostly dsd and 2xdsd but also a fair amount of redbook and hirez PCM. . . .

Ah-ha! I guess computer audio ISN'T so simple. Not everybody has a network engineer at their beck and call.

I'll take the disks, please.

 

[dingus]

the assertion that a computer based rig requires a complex process of setup and tweaking is absurd. it can be, just like any analog rig, its only as complicated and difficult as one wants to make it.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

the assertion that a computer based rig requires a complex process of setup and tweaking is absurd. it can be, just like any analog rig, its only as complicated and difficult as one wants to make it.

This. And back on topic, thank God.

Tim

 

[Brucemck2]

the assertion that a computer based rig requires a complex process of setup and tweaking is absurd. it can be, just like any analog rig, its only as complicated and difficult as one wants to make it.

Properly dialing in a cartridge isn't any easier than properly dialing in a digital chain. (And depending on the amp, tube biasing can pose formidable challenges.)

 

[JackD201]

it can be, just like any analog rig, its only as complicated and difficult as one wants to make it.

I believe I've already expressed the same sentiment.

DSP is a powerful tool. As such it does depend greatly on the mechanic that wields it. I am also on record as saying that 24/96 is sufficiently transparent for most purposes provided the implementation of the analog stage(s) is/are devoid of gross colorations and of distortions people are more sensitive to. To the point that whatever colorations or distortions are present may and have been enough to live with if the benefits provided outweigh them. Just my 2 cents.

My decision to not use my Lyngdorf, yes I still own it, is simply based on that premise. I don't feel I need it anymore so I don't use it. My partner needs his so he uses his. He gets great sound, much better than without it.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Properly dialing in a cartridge isn't any easier than properly dialing in a digital chain. (And depending on the amp, tube biasing can pose formidable challenges.)

What modern current tube amps are you referring to? 99.9% are easily biased or even self biased eg. ARC, cj, VAC, VTL, Atma-sphere, Zesto, etc.

 

[Brucemck2]

What modern current tube amps are you referring to? 99.9% are easily biased or even self biased eg. ARC, cj, VAC, VTL, Atma-sphere, Zesto, etc.

Vintage bespoke PIA (point taken re most amps.) Cartridge alignment was a perpetual challenge for me ... and had "theory arguments" (e.g., which alignment tool?) not unlike our current digital/dsp debates.

 

[FrantzM]

I find interesting how quickly those into analog forget how challenging tuning a table can be.. In fact High End Audio is the province of minutiae. Yet complexity is invoked in anything digital. I fail to see what is so challenging about ripping a CD or downloading it from the usual providers ...


OTOH ...

For the record (pun intended ) I have Vinyl about three thousands. I am trying to digitize my LPs and that is a serious challenge so far. omg!! it takes an incredible amount of time and patience to needle drop .. Not the quick set and forget I am used in ripping CDs... This is definitively not for the faint of heart ...

 

[Bruce B]

For the record (pun intended ) I am trying to digitize my LPs and that is a serious challenge so far. omg!! it takes an incredible amount of time and patience to needle drop .. Not the quick set and forget I am used in ripping CDs... This is definitively not for the faint of heart ...

Welcome to my world!!

 

[caesar]

Gentlemen, fascinating discussion! Don't want to interrupt your passionate discussions, but I would appreciate if someone could please help answer the following few questions:

- I'm assuming it is best to use a dedicated computer - a Windows laptop or a Mac Mini. What are the advantages of using Mac vs. Windows?
- How do you quiet down the processing on your computer so it minimizes the contention for resources and allows the music processing to be the primary activity? Is it easier on a Mac or on a Windows machine?
- What is the best software to rip your digital, without loss? on Mac? on Windows?
- What's the difference between inputs / outputs: USB, SPDIF, etc.? How does one know which implementation will sound best with what DAC?
- Is upsampling a good thing? Why?

Thanks!

 

[rbbert]

Too many ways to answer most of those questions, but for ripping XLD (Mac) and EAC or dBPoweramp (Windows) are the usual choices. DVD-Audio Extractor (Windows) is great for DVD's and Blurays although doesn't offer automatic tagging as the CD rippers do.

 

[BlueFox]

My understanding is a generic computer is the worst way to play digital music. A generic computer has noisy mechanical hard drives, a cheap power supply, a cheap sound card, in fact the entire design is based on using the lowest cost components the manufacturer can find. On the other hand, a dedicated file player, such as the Bryston BDP-1/2, has no moving parts, optimized analog and digital power supplies, upgraded audiophile sound card, and it looks like it belongs in an equipment rack.

Trial and error will answer your other questions, but I use an AES (XLR) SPDIF cable between my Bryston BDP-1 and Auralic Vega DAC. I use iTunes software to rip CDs to lossless ALAC, and download high-res in FLAC.

 

[caesar]

Too many ways to answer most of those questions, but for ripping XLD (Mac) and EAC or dBPoweramp (Windows) are the usual choices. DVD-Audio Extractor (Windows) is great for DVD's and Blurays although doesn't offer automatic tagging as the CD rippers do.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

So it seems only the folks who are "nerds" who have overcome the learning curve - and I mean that it a respectful way, as in nerds ruling the world - don't find Computer Audio confusing. The rest will either listen to a friends and get a set up just like it, or buy a professional server. Or more likely - will just stick with a CD player.