Confessions of an Audiophile Junky-I Got Center Stage With Pitch Perfect Sound

[microstrip]

For sure Joe and I will discuss the return policy. (...)

In Europe the Consumer Contracts Regulation stipulate very severe mandatory aspects of returns of internet goods - to the point we now have problems with the so called 'Serial returners', people that send back almost everything of what they buy online.

Sometime ago there was a TV show presenting a family in France who could live effectively buying less than 50% they used - including food! Some big chains have now created lists of 'Serial returners' to protect themselves from these practices.

 

[Steve williams]

to the point we now have problems with the so called 'Serial returners', people that send back almost everything of what they buy online.

FWIW it was this very issue that made Joe and I discuss the restocking fee

 

[spiritofmusic]

Steve, it's really not fair to misrepresent me here.
I haven't mentioned any reasons to not try other than the unreasonable restocking fee and impractical trial period.
Either one of these would put me off, tbh.
I have reservations about the stated aim ie being put centre stage, and continued mentions of the word "unique".
But those are not the reasons I'd turn away.
It's a short trial for a slow burn in product, and ludicrous restocking fee.
If we're now justifying it in terms of specialist packaging, try explaining that to those who have returns policies on 100kg plus gear with VERY elaborate customised wooden cases, and no restocking fee at all.

 

[Steve williams]

Steve, it's really not fair to misrepresent me here.
I haven't mentioned any reasons to not try other than the unreasonable restocking fee and impractical trial period.
Either one of these would put me off, tbh.
I have reservations about the stated aim ie being put centre stage, and continued mentions of the word "unique".
But those are not the reasons I'd turn away.
It's a short trial for a slow burn in product, and ludicrous restocking fee.
If we're now justifying it in terms of specialist packaging, try explaining that to those who have returns policies on 100kg plus gear with VERY elaborate customised wooden cases, and no restocking fee at all.

Marc, did you even read my last post??

Not misrepresenting Marc as I can find many comments by you in this thread that corroborate my comment

 

[DaveC]

I've found these kind of issues, i.e. serial returners, etc.., aren't a problem. People that are going to buy accessories at $1k+ per component aren't going to be a huge problem. Maybe occasionally, but if you don't have dealers you need a 30 day return with no restocking fee, or you need to provide demo footers. Demos work well and are a relatively small investment for the manufacturer.

Once the honeymoon period is over... with any new product you'll get initial sales from some... then you have competition from 1000 other similar products that will offer better sales terms than 14 days with a 35% restock fee. I'll be honest... I don't have a lot of disposable income relative to most here, so I'm going to be more conservative with my money, but there's no way I'd try your footers under those terms.

 

[PeterA]

That's a good decision Joel. You're due a promotion .

Marc, I think the name is Joseph or Joe for short, not Joel.

 

[Steve williams]

All good advice and we will change the terms to 30 days and no restocking unless returned goods are damaged. This will be changed today. We welcome all of your input and as stated our biggest concern is precisely what Microstrip posted but because none have been returned we feel it quite reasonable to make it 30 days and no restocking fee as long as there no no damaged goods in the return. Does this sound good for everyone. For Joe and I it has so far been a non issue as none have been returned.

 

[PeterA]

FWIW it was this very issue that made Joe and I discuss the restocking fee

I'm surprised by this Steve. Having read the confidence from both you and Joe about their effectiveness and that of the beta testers and your often repeated point that no footers have ever been returned, I just find it strange that you now write that you were concerned about "serial returners". Do we know of any such instances in high end audio? This is a product marketed almost exclusively through word of mouth, TAS, and now WBF. The audiophiles who seek out these avenues would seem to be reasonable people who are not looking to rip off people like you and Joe.

I am also open minded about these footers. I want to wait for some reports in the field from actual owners long term and hopefully hear them in a friend's house or my own before I declare that I am not interested. There is a waiting list and little actual feedback yet. It is way too early for a cautious audiophile like me to jump on the buzz or ignore such a product. I plan to wait and see what happens to the price, the return policy and user feedback before I decide anything, Steve. As I wrote earlier, I wish you and Joe much success with this product.

 

[DaveC]

All good advice and we will change the terms to 30 days and no restocking unless returned goods are damaged. This will be changed today. We welcome all of your input and as stated our biggest concern is precisely what Microstrip posted but because none have been returned we feel it quite reasonable to make it 30 days and no restocking fee as long as there no no damaged goods in the return. Does this sound good for everyone. For Joe and I it has so far been a non issue as none have been returned.

That's probably a good decision. FWIW, I offer 30 days with no restock fee and it's been a few years since I got a return. A huge majority of my customers are a pleasure to deal with. I do offer demos so if it's not clear which cable is best or they want to compare to other brands they can. But with footers it's MUCH simpler, there is only one product for every single component, you don't offer different performance levels of footers at different price points, the likelihood of damage is relatively small and shipping is cheap, easy and totally homogenized. I can't see the more liberal return policy being an issue at all.

 

[spiritofmusic]

 

[JackD201]

I'm surprised by this Steve. Having read the confidence from both you and Joe about their effectiveness and that of the beta testers and your often repeated point that no footers have ever been returned, I just find it strange that you now write that you were concerned about "serial returners". Do we know of any such instances in high end audio? This is a product marketed almost exclusively through word of mouth, TAS, and now WBF. The audiophiles who seek out these avenues would seem to be reasonable people who are not looking to rip off people like you and Joe.

I am also open minded about these footers. I want to wait for some reports in the field from actual owners long term and hopefully hear them in a friend's house or my own before I declare that I am not interested. There is a waiting list and little actual feedback yet. It is way too early for a cautious audiophile like me to jump on the buzz or ignore such a product. I plan to wait and see what happens to the price, the return policy and user feedback before I decide anything, Steve. As I wrote earlier, I wish you and Joe much success with this product.

That's understandable Peter. I guess it's a much easier risk to take for guys like us who are already CMS owners. It would easily be in the same ball park as say you trying a new MY Sonic or Airtight without hearing one first. First time is always more difficult. Heck, I just flew to another country to see and hear a power product in action. Wish there was a trial period for that big brute. LOL

It's a decision Steve's gotta make. There's a finite number of these for now. Gotta do the calculus on this one Stevie. You'll never please everybody. Just gotta work the numbers.

 

[Steve williams]

decision has been made Jack

Joe and I have great confidence in this product

30 day money back guaranty and no restocking fee unless there are damaged goods in the return

There are only a finite number of these. We had many many demo units but these were all bought by the people who were demoing them and we find ourselves now caught in supply and demand issues

 

[JackD201]

What part of childbirth supposedly hurts most oneobgyn? LOL It's all good.

Who'd a thunk you'd be delivering little metal babies?

 

[Leif S]

It's a good problem to have

 

[JackD201]

I see somebody is in the office early. My invoice please Mr. Swanson

 

[Leif S]

I see somebody is in the office early. My invoice please Mr. Swanson

I'm working from home again. Not through with the repairs yet lol

 

[Leif S]

second set of Ultra 11's??

 

[joelavrencik]

Just saw that the ad is on page 203 of the November issue of TAS. The index shows it under CMS. So now, you can critique it in the context of a magazine full of ads. Other than the fact that the ad guy left off the web address, I'm not sure it's so bad compared to the general population. ........open to all comments.

 

[mountainjoe]

Hi Joe - btw, I'm the one who just spoke to you about your carrying your rack systems if you haven't made the connection yet

Regarding the CS footers, yes, I've had 4 of them under my PS Audio DirectStream DAC and I'm on day 4. I am hesitant to comment on what I'm hearing as my experience with them has been far from controlled - meaning I installed them under my DAC at the same time I installed a bunch of new PS Audio gear in my system including their BHK Signature preamp and a pair of their BHK 300 Signature series monoblocks.

All of this new gear is breaking in at the same time as the CS footers and both preamp and amp use tubes which will take some good number of hours to settle in (80-100hrs I'm expecting).

With those caveats, I can say that I've had the DAC for a long time as well as the speakers (VSA VR-55s).

Day 1 - the bass was really bad - I mean bloated, loose, very, very loose - to the point I thought there might be something physically wrong with my speakers or gear as my bass is usually taught, dynamic, and articulate. This was exactly the opposite of those characteristics - and did I mention it was very loose
Otherwise the sound wasn't too bad (if I could mentally subtract the bass) but hard to judge given the new gear breaking in.

Day 2 - didn't have much time to listen - mainly letting the system cook.

Day 3 - bass tightened up noticeably - still not where it should be by a long shot but at least not crapping all over the sound. Imaging and soundstage were improved significantly - in fact I noted this was the widest soundstage I have ever heard out of my DAC and rivaling that of my analog front end - which is saying a lot! Also the sound was very natural as in analog sounding - never thought I could get such an analog signature out of my DAC. That said, the sound was somewhat euphonic - as in rounded off - smoother than reality accompanied by a (or perhaps a repercussion of) diminishment of dynamics. Overall the sound was very immersive and involving but somewhat unsatisfying given the aforementioned euphonic signature.

Day 4 - had a quick listen this morning - bass continued to improve and the euphonic signature seems to be reduced but still hear it. Hopefully will have some time later tonight for more evaluation.

The new gear is for an event at my house this Saturday, after which I will be able to go back to my own equipment. I also have 8 more feet coming to put under my preamp and phono stage - that should get exciting ;-)

Given I am much more familiar with my own gear, I will be able to give better feedback at that time and will include the impact of the additional set of feet.

Cheers, Joe

Wanted to give an update but also realized I did not give much details on my system other than the PS Audio gear - here are the other details:

Speakers: VR-55 Aktive
ICs and bi-wired speaker cables: all MB Ultra
PCs: MB Ultra on the BHK 300 monoblocks, MB Reference on the BHK preamp and DS DAC and also on the VR-55 plate amps.
Power Management: PS Audio P10 powering everything including the buit-in bass amps on the VR-55s
The preamp has 3 Magico QPods underneath
Rack is a MapleShade custom with 2" solid maple shelves


Day 5 (morning) update: the new PS Audio gear now has 100hrs on it and things are settling in. The bass is greatly improved this morning - little signs of bloat though still lacking a bit in articulation (compared to what I'm accustomed to with my own gear). The euphonic signature is gone - dynamics are improved while retaining the immersive soundstage and natural rendition out of the DAC. I listened to David Bowie's Soul Love (Ziggy Stardust) in DSD and the sound was snappy, articulate, and imaging was quite good. I like this track as the opening has some drumstick thwacks that should be crisp on the attack and should give a good sense of space around them as well as exhibit some decay. Overall this is a well recorded album and one of my go-to references.

Overall the sound was engaging with precise imaging and a huge, immersive soundstage. There is an enhanced level of realism that brings you that much closer to the performance. There is just a bit of high frequency harshness so we'll see if this abates or remains.

Only had time to listen to the one track but I am very familiar with it so I think it's a good representation of where things are with the new gear and footers.

The footers are definitely showing their potential and they are already a significant step up from the Stillpoints Ultra SS footers I had under my DAC previously.

Cheers, Joe

 

[Steve williams]

And today is only day 5

As I have said before it will get better