Constructive Criticism

[Bruce B]

Constructive Criticism

In this world of Political Correctness, we sometimes lose sight of what we’re trying to accomplish. Each of us wants a system that will convey the emotion of what the performer was/is trying to tell us.

No one “likes” criticism, but it can be a valuable tool in which to further our hobby and musical enjoyment. I’ve heard so many people come to me saying they hate the way a system sounds, when just an hour ago they were congratulating the owner on a job well done. I’ve done it, so I’m as guilty as anyone.

When I was growing up, if I got a bad report card or brought home a “D” on a test, I was punished for it. My parents didn’t congratulate me on a job well done. Don’t bring up Positive Reinforcement either. My parents either grounded me or took something away that I cherished. They then told me to do better or the consequences would be harsher. Think if that was the case today. Oh, you have a room mode that you haven’t tamed… You’re grounded for a week!

How many times have you seen people complain that equipment reviews are all the same? No one wants to **** off a manufacturer and lose advertising revenue. How dare we tell an Industry heavyweight that his speakers sound like crap. There are far more positive reviews written today because the magazine wants to continue getting equipment in to review. It’s this dynamic cycle that they must keep.

A few recent threads on here got me to thinking. What are people saying about my room? I would love to hear the comments. I have a thick skin, but if you tell me my room sucks, the next sentence out of your mouth better be something like “Your room sucks because ______”. Give me criticism, but give me suggestions on how I can improve it, within reason. Don’t tell me my room needs to be wider, ‘cause it ain’t happening! If you tell me my room has a muddy bass, then show me the measurements and suggest ways to fix it. I can take it, I’m a big boy. I wrote a less than flattering speaker review and you’d thought I had killed someone’s family. People have opinions, but it’s what you take from that that will either further your enjoyment or make you a miserable old man.

Audio is so subjective, but objective tools can help you achieve audio nirvana. Don’t be dismissive to criticism. Just think how the industry would be today if all the manufacturers dismissed criticism.

So for anyone visiting my rooms in the future, don’t let me hear from the grapevine that someone thought my system sounded like poo. Tell me up front if the sound is good, bad or whatever. But remember, I also have the tools to make it sound any way you want it! The life of a mastering engineer!!


O'kay.... I'm needed in surgery now....

 

[PeterA]

Great post, Bruce. My small audio circle here in Boston involves six guys with WBF members MadFloyd, Al M., and Ack among them. We actually take some pride in giving each other honest feedback and criticism. At least I think and hope so. That is what we tell each other, anyway. Speaking for myself, I am continually trying to improve the sound of my system without spending much more money. These friends tell me when something sounds better or not, as was the recent case with my Colibri cartridge. It is nice when they notice an improvement and describe it in similar terms to what I am hearing. It reinforces or clarifies things, and can lead to new insights and understanding.

I know we invite each other over when auditioning new gear in our systems and in those cases we tend to be brutally honest with each other because often a purchase decision and a fair amount of money depend on this critical feedback. I'm sure it is toned down a bit if the gear has already been bought. After all, do we really want to tell a friend that he has just wasted a bunch of money and that it was a lateral change at best?

I find that if it involves no-cost adjustments like speaker placement, cartridge loading settings, VTA, even some new music, etc, we tend to be brutally honest with each other with the hope of learning something. But we also have to remind ourselves, that in the end, our opinions about our own systems matter the most. We are the ones who end up listening to them after everyone leaves.

 

[Bruce B]

Excellent comment Peter. I wish everyone would speak their mind. We are such a niche group that everyone wants to be included. A lot of us thrive on acceptance and that if one thing is said in a negative way, we are outcast.
MikeL is also correct in that you need to know the person's reference that is giving the criticism. My neighbor thinks this is all a scam and can not hear the difference between two files known to be different.

 

[jazdoc]

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...ssful-Critical-Commentary&highlight=Criticism

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I have as many visitors as anyone. and I get my share of empty platitudes, but also much helpful feedback too. I enjoy each visitor and visit regardless. so it's all good.

and I have a few very regular visitors who pull no punches. I know that my sonic direction is not entirely shared by them and they are diplomatic and sincere in how they communicate, but still will share their true feelings offered in a sugar coated package.

the key is to separate the comments on your room/system/music from your personal identity. it's hard to do thou.

a few frequent visitors push me on climbing the mountain, and are very hard to please. those people are golden to me.

i'd say that almost every worthwhile improvement to my room and system has had significant feedback involved that tipped me over to do it.

as far as increasing the signal to noise ratio of feedback i'm afraid you just have to work at it.....there is no magic pill for honesty.

 

[PeterA]

I should also add that I have learned a lot by hearing the other systems in my local group. One of us has changed gear quite often and so I have been exposed to unfamiliar gear being auditioned in a familiar system. The other systems also have some fundamental differences. Two are digital only, one is analog only, and three have both. Two systems use panel speakers, two full range cone systems and two are mini monitor based, one with an integrated sub woofer. And of course each room is vastly different with varying amounts and quality of room treatment.

So even if criticism is muted and little is discussed (rarely the case) one can still learn from these completely different sonic experiences and that can lead to new insights in one's own system. After hearing someone else's system, I almost always come home and try to play the same music on my system and reflect on how and why things sound different. If I learn of a new shortcoming in my own system, I think of ways to address it and if my system reminds me of an issue in the other system, I usually send of an email telling my friend what I just heard.

This seems to work well among friends.

I also think that posting one's system on a forum can provide opportunities to read some feedback though perhaps this is often a bit less critical.

I agree with Mike Lavigne's comment that it is particularly helpful to know one's reference to better appreciate his comments. I especially like it when someone tells me that he knows little about stereos but much about live music and proceeds to comment on how the system portrays music.

 

[JackD201]

I'm my worst critic. Things usually go like this.

Wow that's great.

No not yet. Hear that?.....

Oh yeah. What are you gonna do?

I don't know yet.

LOL. Seriously. That's how it goes when there's new stuff in.

 

[c1ferrari]

O'kay.... I'm needed in surgery now....

Hehe...you're doing this from work

 

[c1ferrari]

Well, albeit catharsis has its adherents -- it's grace, in what I will advance as 'social situations', which dominates my horizon.
Character flaw -- I suppose -- imbued by my parents and culture. :b

 

[Andre Marc]

I don't give a hamsters ball sack what anyone thinks of my system..lol..I can feel it it my bones when the sound is coherent and balanced..anything else is just audiophile masturbation.

I'm don't need approval. I'm out to please no one but me.

 

[Blizzard]

Nice thread Bruce. I can see it stopped short of really making it too far though. I agree 100% with the message you were trying to put across. I think most people simply avoid offering constructive criticism due to fear they will hurt feelings, or be rejected. And there is a good reason for it. Because often that's what will occur. But really it's the most effective means of moving forwards towards better places in life. If you don't know the problem exists in the first place, how are you every going to build upon past mistakes? The real fear should be of the repercussions that will occur from not giving or receiving the criticism.

 

[Rodney Gold]

Bruce , Its an audiophile thing , folk will visit your room and system and heap superlatives and gush to you, but behind your back , they rubbish it and stick the knife in..come across it many times.. it's often just jealousy.
As to criticism , well as you say its all subjective and we all have an idea of whats good to US and are mostly aware of our systems faults in terms of following that path , which of course might not be the same path for the critic.
Problem is the solitude..albeit we might be happy , we still want approval of our peer group, its a human condition

 

[Blizzard]

Bruce , Its an audiophile thing , folk will visit your room and system and heap superlatives and gush to you, but behind your back , they rubbish it and stick the knife in..come across it many times.. it's often just jealousy.

Not me. I would tell him my honest opinion straight up. But then I would help him find a solution to the problem.

 

[esldude]

I haven't read all the threads on WBF. Of those I have read, this is easily the most childish, and that my friend is saying something.

HTFU.

 

[Blizzard]

I haven't read all the threads on WBF. Of those I have read, this is easily the most childish, and that my friend is saying something.

HTFU.

Why are you saying that? I think it takes a grown up to have what it takes to dish out or receive constructive criticism. Not childish at all.

 

[rockitman]

I haven't read all the threads on WBF. Of those I have read, this is easily the most childish, and that my friend is saying something.

HTFU.

What the hell is that supposed to mean ? Maybe provide a little context why you think the op is childish with his post.

 

[esldude]

Maybe my other post wasn't fully constructive.

Why is your post childish?

I agree with every complaint you make in the OP. People should be honest and not snipe you behind your back. On the other hand, you have been around the block enough to know how people are. And you got on a worldwide public forum to post how you wanted people to act? That is childish in the way one acts if Bruce's little feelings have been hurt. Harden the F up.

For starters, you could put a notice in your room to this effect in some form or fashion. HTFU and let them know what is what. By sniveling requests on this forum you are really doing something very like what those you complain about are doing. Slithering around talking about unnamed people who you hear have dissed your setup after the fact.

I also have a counter example of why they do that, and it may not be the disrespect you think it is.

A good audiophile friend and I met to hear a mutual friend's new vintage amp find. A McIntosh 240. He hooked up to my friend's system, and within 2 minutes said, "hey, what do you think, sounds pretty good to me?" This asked of the system owner. Who had horror in his face. We both knew our friend was hard driving at times and that was coupled with real enthusiasm. We knew his feelings would be hurt if we told the truth. This Mac 240 was making vocalists sound like they were singing in front of a window fan. Other problems too. It sounded just badly messed up. Our friend seemed not to notice. Typical of him with a new toy. Somehow I managed to say, "hey its only been on a couple minutes. This thing needs a half hour to warm up and then we can tell what it really sounds like." My friend had waves of relief apparent on his face. Over that half hour our mutual friend began to hear some of the problems. We slipped into saying hey let us pull out the tube checker and check the tubes. A few tubes were shot, and in time we found a couple bad caps too.

So were we dishonest, did we show a lack of respect by our temporary dishonesty? No, we knew this guy, he was our friend a good friend. Telling him what we both thought (this amps sound messed up and like ****) would have only hurt his feelings and he might have left without letting us check it out for him. Instead in time we fixed it, and it did sound pretty nice, and we could discuss that honestly.

I would imagine your passion Bruce is very apparent. Even more so when people may not be familiar to you they aren't going to point out flaws. Yet later if asked or discussing it among others they will tell what they thought. They may or may not have valid points. It is just how people are and might even be their version of showing respect for someone passionate about their business as misguided as it seems from your perspective.

 

[Blizzard]

Maybe my other post wasn't fully constructive.

Why is your post childish?

I agree with every complaint you make in the OP. People should be honest and not snipe you behind your back. On the other hand, you have been around the block enough to know how people are. And you got on a worldwide public forum to post how you wanted people to act? That is childish in the way one acts if Bruce's little feelings have been hurt. Harden the F up.

For starters, you could put a notice in your room to this effect in some form or fashion. HTFU and let them know what is what. By sniveling requests on this forum you are really doing something very like what those you complain about are doing. Slithering around talking about unnamed people who you hear have dissed your setup after the fact.

I also have a counter example of why they do that, and it may not be the disrespect you think it is.

A good audiophile friend and I met to hear a mutual friend's new vintage amp find. A McIntosh 240. He hooked up to my friend's system, and within 2 minutes said, "hey, what do you think, sounds pretty good to me?" This asked of the system owner. Who had horror in his face. We both knew our friend was hard driving at times and that was coupled with real enthusiasm. We knew his feelings would be hurt if we told the truth. This Mac 240 was making vocalists sound like they were singing in front of a window fan. Other problems too. It sounded just badly messed up. Our friend seemed not to notice. Typical of him with a new toy. Somehow I managed to say, "hey its only been on a couple minutes. This thing needs a half hour to warm up and then we can tell what it really sounds like." My friend had waves of relief apparent on his face. Over that half hour our mutual friend began to hear some of the problems. We slipped into saying hey let us pull out the tube checker and check the tubes. A few tubes were shot, and in time we found a couple bad caps too.

So were we dishonest, did we show a lack of respect by our temporary dishonesty? No, we knew this guy, he was our friend a good friend. Telling him what we both thought (this amps sound messed up and like ****) would have only hurt his feelings and he might have left without letting us check it out for him. Instead in time we fixed it, and it did sound pretty nice, and we could discuss that honestly.

I would imagine your passion Bruce is very apparent. Even more so when people may not be familiar to you they aren't going to point out flaws. Yet later if asked or discussing it among others they will tell what they thought. They may or may not have valid points. It is just how people are and might even be their version of showing respect for someone passionate about their business as misguided as it seems from your perspective.

Reading that comment, I don't think you understand exactly what Bruce was trying to say in his OP. He's basically saying the world has gotten so generic that you can't even rely on anyone for an honest opinion anymore. And I agree with him 100% Very few people are honest. There always has to be some kind of motivation to do anything. When something just doesn't smell right, it's because it doesn't.


I think George Carlin sums up the problem in the world today very well in this classic skit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuEQixrBKCc

 

[esldude]

Reading that comment, I don't think you understand exactly what Bruce was trying to say in his OP. He's basically saying the world has gotten so generic that you can't even rely on anyone for an honest opinion anymore. And I agree with him 100% Very few people are honest. There always has to be some kind of motivation to do anything. When something just doesn't smell right, it's because it doesn't.


I think George Carlin sums up the problem in the world today very well in this classic skit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuEQixrBKCc

I agree with your sentiments and the Carlin bit sums it up wonderfully. On the other hand, there are more people than ever in the world (what 3 billion more than when Carlin started out?). The interaction among them is even greater. Grow that exponentially on the internet and with interactions over the internet. It takes more courtesy and layers of more social lubrication. It just does. And it blunts people's honesty even when they are basically honest people.

I managed other people in work for a long time. At one time, with fewer cooks in the kitchen, a valuable feedback was constructive criticism. To tell someone without malice, with honesty, "you aren't getting it done. Here is where you aren't getting it done, and what you need to do differently or better." Some snapped out of it and improved, some didn't. At the end of my time doing that work, so many people were involved and overseeing and dampening any negative event you simply couldn't do that. You couldn't. Whether you should or not is another issue, but you couldn't. There were people who were strung along, not being good enough at their work, and through these various opaque and multi-faceted procedures never really knew what they needed to change. Getting let go, fired, sacked, was a surprise. Some of them would have straightened up if it was just put to them that way. It wasn't and often isn't now. Part of how times have changed. With so much more detailed interaction, it might even be better than the old more straightforward way all things considered or maybe it is not. But it is how things are so HTFU and deal with it.

 

[Blizzard]

I agree with your sentiments and the Carlin bit sums it up wonderfully. On the other hand, there are more people than ever in the world (what 3 billion more than when Carlin started out?). The interaction among them is even greater. Grow that exponentially on the internet and with interactions over the internet. It takes more courtesy and layers of more social lubrication. It just does. And it blunts people's honesty even when they are basically honest people.

I managed other people in work for a long time. At one time, with fewer cooks in the kitchen, a valuable feedback was constructive criticism. To tell someone without malice, with honesty, "you aren't getting it done. Here is where you aren't getting it done, and what you need to do differently or better." Some snapped out of it and improved, some didn't. At the end of my time doing that work, so many people were involved and overseeing and dampening any negative event you simply couldn't do that. You couldn't. Whether you should or not is another issue, but you couldn't. There were people who were strung along, not being good enough at their work, and through these various opaque and multi-faceted procedures never really knew what they needed to change. Getting let go, fired, sacked, was a surprise. Some of them would have straightened up if it was just put to them that way. It wasn't and often isn't now. Part of how times have changed. With so much more detailed interaction, it might even be better than the old more straightforward way all things considered or maybe it is not. But it is how things are so HTFU and deal with it.

Well Steve Job's didn't have any problem speaking his mind around Apple. Look at where they are today. Look what they have achieved with this type of guidance. Sure he may of caused a few tears along the way, but in the end, the same people who shed the tears, respected him more than anyone. So my opinion is suck it up, and take criticism openly. Beg for it if you must. It will pay off in the end.