Constructive Criticism

[Bruce B]

I agree with every complaint you make in the OP. People should be honest and not snipe you behind your back. On the other hand, you have been around the block enough to know how people are. And you got on a worldwide public forum to post how you wanted people to act? That is childish in the way one acts if Bruce's little feelings have been hurt. Harden the F up.

I would imagine your passion Bruce is very apparent. Even more so when people may not be familiar to you they aren't going to point out flaws. Yet later if asked or discussing it among others they will tell what they thought. They may or may not have valid points. It is just how people are and might even be their version of showing respect for someone passionate about their business as misguided as it seems from your perspective.

I posted this Thread after I took some friends over to hear a system. They gushed poetically to the owner about his room and equipment, saying it was the best system they had ever heard. When we went out to eat that evening, they could not stop talking about how bad it was. This is the premise of the how this thread got started.

 

[ddk]

Constructive Criticism

In this world of Political Correctness, we sometimes lose sight of what we’re trying to accomplish. Each of us wants a system that will convey the emotion of what the performer was/is trying to tell us.

No one “likes” criticism, but it can be a valuable tool in which to further our hobby and musical enjoyment. I’ve heard so many people come to me saying they hate the way a system sounds, when just an hour ago they were congratulating the owner on a job well done. I’ve done it, so I’m as guilty as anyone.

When I was growing up, if I got a bad report card or brought home a “D” on a test, I was punished for it. My parents didn’t congratulate me on a job well done. Don’t bring up Positive Reinforcement either. My parents either grounded me or took something away that I cherished. They then told me to do better or the consequences would be harsher. Think if that was the case today. Oh, you have a room mode that you haven’t tamed… You’re grounded for a week!

How many times have you seen people complain that equipment reviews are all the same? No one wants to **** off a manufacturer and lose advertising revenue. How dare we tell an Industry heavyweight that his speakers sound like crap. There are far more positive reviews written today because the magazine wants to continue getting equipment in to review. It’s this dynamic cycle that they must keep.

A few recent threads on here got me to thinking. What are people saying about my room? I would love to hear the comments. I have a thick skin, but if you tell me my room sucks, the next sentence out of your mouth better be something like “Your room sucks because ______”. Give me criticism, but give me suggestions on how I can improve it, within reason. Don’t tell me my room needs to be wider, ‘cause it ain’t happening! If you tell me my room has a muddy bass, then show me the measurements and suggest ways to fix it. I can take it, I’m a big boy. I wrote a less than flattering speaker review and you’d thought I had killed someone’s family. People have opinions, but it’s what you take from that that will either further your enjoyment or make you a miserable old man.

Audio is so subjective, but objective tools can help you achieve audio nirvana. Don’t be dismissive to criticism. Just think how the industry would be today if all the manufacturers dismissed criticism.

So for anyone visiting my rooms in the future, don’t let me hear from the grapevine that someone thought my system sounded like poo. Tell me up front if the sound is good, bad or whatever. But remember, I also have the tools to make it sound any way you want it! The life of a mastering engineer!!


O'kay.... I'm needed in surgery now....

Actually Bruce some people including myself not only welcome criticism from the right person we'll happily even pay for it, and it doesn't have to be constructive. Not just about audio, like Jack I'm my own worst critic with whatever I do but there are things that I miss and/or am ignorant of that a third party might bring to light. Not everyone is this way and as a guest you need to respect that. I'm guilty of exactly what you mention, remained silent when the host is neither asking for or some aren't tolerant of criticism, so why bother? I don't care for false praise but I see nothing wrong with speaking openly afterwards with others as long as everyone's honest with their criticism.

david

 

[JackD201]

I'm very open to criticism and let people know I am.

I do know better than to dish out unsolicited criticism. If I'm not asked, I keep my opinion to myself.

Ultimately it's a matter of being able to adjust to who you are talking to. Some people like me to be direct. Some require careful tone and wording. When in doubt I go with the latter until I am are sure of the other's receptiveness. When faced with a brick wall and I have no other choice, I bring out a sledgehammer. This is not about audio. IMO this is an essential life skill. Sledge hammer first is a recipe for 15 minutes of fame or a lifetime of infamy. LOL.

 

[Rodney Gold]

I don't mind criticism if the faults are real..however I dont like criticism in respect of the listeners sonic preferences...
IE a friend of mine is a total image freak .. I kinda like a large scale sound .. I hate it when he comes over and wants to move my speakers around to fit his idea of what my system should sound like.

If I go listen to a system , I will advise the owner if there is a major fault - like one note bass etc.. and suggest a cure.

 

[esldude]

I posted this Thread after I took some friends over to hear a system. They gushed poetically to the owner about his room and equipment, saying it was the best system they had ever heard. When we went out to eat that evening, they could not stop talking about how bad it was. This is the premise of the how this thread got started.

Well what you describe is just bad behaviour I agree.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

If I find a particular system to not ring my bell so to speak I refrain from making any kind of criticism, unless it's genuinely asked for. And even then I'll qualify it by saying "My preference would be...." or something like that. Usually I can always find a positive somewhere and that's what I focus on.

 

[Andre Marc]

ah some one is decent and polite but still honest.

if some one is happy why start them off on the hifi dissatifaction road even if invited to do so.

that said it can be hard when you see something thats not doing what its ment to and know it could be better without spending anything.. in this case i have been known to interceed without invitation... guilty

What a concept Johnny!! Wholly smokes. Not blowing smoke or making comments about something you really have no interest in? If only ALL member adhered
to your MO.

What people in an internet forum don't understand is that they do NOT have comment on every piece of gear that is introduced here, just for the sake of it.

I don't understand why it is such a difficult thing to get...if you have nothing substantive to contribute, you are just making noise. Unsolicited drive by thread bombs are crap.

 

[Blizzard]

ah some one is decent and polite but still honest.

if some one is happy why start them off on the hifi dissatifaction road even if invited to do so.

that said it can be hard when you see something thats not doing what its ment to and know it could be better without spending anything.. in this case i have been known to interceed without invitation... guilty

My take is only offer the criticism on an audio system if you have a solution for them to fix it.

 

[TBone]

I don't give a hamsters ball sack what anyone thinks of my system..lol..I can feel it it my bones when the sound is coherent and balanced..anything else is just audiophile masturbation.

I'm don't need approval. I'm out to please no one but me.

hehehe ... hi Andre, perhaps we don't need no stinking badges ...

funny, I've recently gone through some serious internal mods, and especially in terms of increased tonal brightness ... well ... I'd prefer to have called it "sunnier" ... but considering my system was spitting back sibilants as if I was wearing a wetsuit ... excessive brightness (+disappearing bass) seemed more appropriate. In fact, it sounded truly awful at times, depending on type of music, and it didn't get better ... as I continued to tinker and go thru various changes/break-in periods.

During that period I invited various friends over for a listen, just to hear my systems new level of incompetence. I warned them of the "changed tonality" before they arrived, so they were appropriately briefed ... I wanted 'em to hear the system using a different passive schema and all new silver(or silver plated copper) internal wiring plus a few new caps (many more caps to be replaced relatively soon).

It was a fun, politically non-corrected experience, in fact, I welcomed (and agreed w/) ALL the negative criticism.

 

[Andre Marc]

hehehe ... hi Andre, perhaps we don't need no stinking badges ...

funny, I've recently gone through some serious internal mods, and especially in terms of increased tonal brightness ... well ... I'd prefer to have called it "sunnier" ... but considering my system was spitting back sibilants as if I was wearing a wetsuit ... excessive brightness (+disappearing bass) seemed more appropriate. In fact, it sounded truly awful at times, depending on type of music, and it didn't get better ... as I continued to tinker and go thru various changes/break-in periods.

During that period I invited various friends over for a listen, just to hear my systems new level of incompetence. I warned them of the "changed tonality" before they arrived, so they were appropriately briefed ... I wanted 'em to hear the system using a different passive schema and all new silver(or silver plated copper) internal wiring plus a few new caps (many more caps to be replaced relatively soon).

It was a fun, politically non-corrected experience, in fact, I welcomed (and agreed w/) ALL the negative criticism.

Interesting experience!

But I guess the difference is that you heard some issues that you clearly felt needed to be corrected and took appropriate action.

Moving into a new house recently the only thing I needed to do was understand the sound of the room, make a few decisions on what gear match up,
and then let it settle in.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I never critisize audiophiles anymore , and i lived happily ever after
In the audiophile business there are so many variables/ business related issues and egos that i ll just shut up .
Come to think of it havent been to a show in 5 years and visited a dealer briefly a couple of times in those years , been there done that

 

[NorthStar]

I never critisize audiophiles anymore , and i lived happily ever after
In the audiophile business there are so many variables/ business related issues and egos that i ll just shut up .
Come to think of it havent been to a show in 5 years and visited a dealer briefly a couple of times in those years , been there done that

What is your most favorite audio forum?

And what is your least favorite audio forum? :b

 

[andromedaaudio]

My favourite is off course this forum , where there is a substantial amount of members investing a lot of time /knowledge/ money in audio reproduction .
My least ........ there are many incl locals

 

[TBone]

Interesting experience!

very interesting, especially in light of the "silver" experience and it's commonly perceived distinct brighter / less bass tonality characteristics. Worse yet, although I used mostly pure un-shielded silver in most applications, I also tried some (Belden) silver plated copper, plated over steal shielded military grade wires in two key places, this particular wire is used in one main brand of interconnect that I'm aware, but generally it's considered a complete no-no by many cable companies and enthusiast. And if they had heard my system then, they'd be verified. I was actually surprised by the tonal change, even though I'd read many times over the same sonic changes due to similar type mods, especially during breakin.

But I guess the difference is that you heard some issues that you clearly felt needed to be corrected and took appropriate action.

Well, the project started based on the aging capacitors in my Classe components. I have the schematics, so I decided to completely dissemble the pre-amp to not only reconcile the cap values (differences were noted), but to also check/clean. However, during this dissemble process, some of the very thin but otherwise high quality copper -stock- internal wiring had become compromised at the solder joints. So I needed to resolder, then inevitably, rewire ... then this project morphed ... into taking my two mono amps apart for similar reasons (still using the stock high quality copper shielded wires in this case, but with better connections).

Still at it ...

Moving into a new house recently the only thing I needed to do was understand the sound of the room, make a few decisions on what gear match up,
and then let it settle in.

Always a challenge to get the same sound/characteristics with a completely different room. Near impossible in my experience. Doesn't mean it will be better or worse, often just different. In fact, because of my new digs,in which I wanted to attain less low frequency "warmth" w/ a sunnier disposition ... well, that was but one reason I wanted to try "silver" ...

 

[GaryProtein]

I'm very open to criticism and let people know I am. . . . .

Don't criticize ME.

I have a shotgun, a shovel and five acres in the back yard!





OK, we needed a little levity here. We need to keep it on the lighter side. We come here for knowledge, entertainment and to exchange ideas.

Disagreement on ideology is fine but personal attacks should be limited to those making only the most outrageous statements!

 

[JackD201]

Hahahahahaha! It's the World Wide Web, you're gonna need private transportation, lots of it!

 

[Gregadd]

Constructive criticism implies you are attempting to "tear something down" in order that it can be replaced by something better.That means the originator was wrong or at least not optimum. Your endeavor is not only to convince someone that they are wrong but you are also correct. The person usually has a personal investment in his choice. A touchy situation. Often the perso is just plain wrong. That is pretty easy. More difficult is where the person has made a correct choice but there may be more effective alternatives.
There is a difference between caling someone fat and suggesting an improvement. If you lost weight you would improve your appearence, avoid disease, increase your enrgy level and enjoy life more. While the first statement is accurate. The second is more palatable and more likely to yeild a positive result.

 

[JackD201]

I dunno about that Reginald. To me constructive criticism (solicited)/advice implies that the person asking feels there is room for improvement. It could be that he is simply asking if there's anything he might have missed and needs fresh eyes or in this case ears. I don't think it is necessarily about being right or wrong. Unsolicited advice however that's another matter. That is criticism from people whose opinions might not be trusted or respected fully.

 

[ddk]

I dunno about that Reginald. To me constructive criticism (solicited)/advice implies that the person asking feels there is room for improvement. It could be that he is simply asking if there's anything he might have missed and needs fresh eyes or in this case ears. I don't think it is necessarily about being right or wrong. Unsolicited advice however that's another matter. That is criticism from people whose opinions might not be trusted or respected fully.

+1
Generally speaking I'm pretty open to advise and/or criticism, solicited or not but how I respond to it depends on the the content and the person who offered it. Ive benefited from that throughout my life and I prefer the very direct approach, tell me I'm fat instead of your clothes are too tight! I'm direct naturally and that's why I will keep my mouth shut when I know when someone doesn't want to hear it. Very difficult on the forums because you don't really know who you're dealing with and brutal honesty can be misread as arrogance.
david

 

[Gregadd]

I think there is a dififference between seeking advice and accepting criticism. The former has already demontrated a receptiveness to new ideas,