Current surround amplification recommendations

[kaifupaddy]

Hi all,

I am currently embarking on a bit of a journey to buy surround amplification that is "state of the art", i.e.:
- comes closest to the amplification ideal, ie neutral with no sound signature of its own (hence very good measurements as precondition even before a subjective hearing evaluation)
- enough power with some to spare - ideally 300w into 8 ohm and stable into low impedances, sufficient capacitance etc.
- allows to buy 7 channels of <=17k (€) (no mix and match of amp series/brands required and less cost is better given up to 16+ channel requirements going forward when atmos/auro come of age)
- and a bit of a non scientific personal preference I like clean and tidy layout and cabling in the equipment

I am coming from a stereo setup using Gryphon Audio Classe A "old-school" amplification. Hot enough to fry an egg and somewhat mellow sounding. I liked it but now looking if there is some newer amp designs which are more transparent with more power into 8 ohm (and which are also cheaper...). The Gryphon had massive reserves and doubles down all the way to 1 ohm but ultimately had only 150w into 8 ohm.

I am curious if people have experience with various of the below brands and opinions that could help in my evaluation process.

The list of brands/amps (with some factual comments) I am looking into (and will be theoretically be able to demo - with some effort) sorted by price:

<10k (€!) for 7 channels

1. NAD M22 + M27 (super cheap in comparison to rest, Hypex based class D, M27<200w and M22<300w, nice and clean layout - it looks manufactured well)

2. ATI Signature AT6007 (Recent Class AB design, modular design, best "value for money" spec wise from all designs on my list, very clean layout with pretty much no cabling)

3. Datasat RA7300 (also recent Class AB design, with a fan, not fully modular from the looks of it, also built by ATI but internal design looks a fair bit different from AT6007 or Mark Levinson 500H and looks more like CAT amps which I am unfamiliar with but which seem to be older but more expensive designs, "nearly" "value for money" at current pricing - i.e. datasat has decreased pricing on these last year, inside doesnt look near as tidy as NDA. ATI or Mark Levinson)

16-17k (€) retail for a 2channel + 5ch surround combo

4. Classe CA/CT2300/5300 (fan-based design, no modular construction, 5 channel amp seems more limited in output into 4ohms and less which should not be relevant for surround duty though, the inside layout doesnt nearly look as tidy cleanly laid out as the other amps on this list)

5. Krell Duo/Chorus 5ch (fan based design, modular construction, signal to noise and distortion specs look the worst from the contenders on this list, interior design not as clean as the more modular one with cabling still looking like a bit like a rats nest one some pictures I saw; class A hence maybe coming from class A a sound I might be "used to" given where I come from despite more mediocr specs)

6. Mark Levinson 532H/535H (few years old, built by ATI, design looks nearly identical to the ATI Signature amplifier modules at 2x the cost, 5channel amp <300w, very clean layout with pretty much no cabling)

Others interesting optionsoutside of the competition (even more expensive or impossible to demo/buy...):
Simaudio Moon MC8 - (>20k for 7ch, the design is not that new anymore, very expensive, specs worse then some of the newer designs)
Benchmark AHB2 - (way too little power as 2ch at 100w, in mono good but then >20k for 7ch)
Theta (newer hypex implementation amps, new surround amp not out yet) - Simply and regrettably not an option in Europe

Given pure spec and value for money considerations and following a logic "all amps sound the same" as long as they are within spec I should probably just go with the option 2 (ATI) and be done but maybe I have spent too much time in hifi already to just be pragmatic...

Any experiences with any of the above especially if people had the chance for direct comparisons would be much appreciated.

 

[Big B]

Hi all,

I am currently embarking on a bit of a journey to buy surround amplification that is "state of the art", i.e.:
- comes closest to the amplification ideal, ie neutral with no sound signature of its own (hence very good measurements as precondition even before a subjective hearing evaluation)
- enough power with some to spare - ideally 300w into 8 ohm and stable into low impedances, sufficient capacitance etc.
- allows to buy 7 channels of <=17k (€) (no mix and match of amp series/brands required and less cost is better given up to 16+ channel requirements going forward when atmos/auro come of age)
- and a bit of a non scientific personal preference I like clean and tidy layout and cabling in the equipment

I am coming from a stereo setup using Gryphon Audio Classe A "old-school" amplification. Hot enough to fry an egg and somewhat mellow sounding. I liked it but now looking if there is some newer amp designs which are more transparent with more power into 8 ohm (and which are also cheaper...). The Gryphon had massive reserves and doubles down all the way to 1 ohm but ultimately had only 150w into 8 ohm.

I am curious if people have experience with various of the below brands and opinions that could help in my evaluation process.

The list of brands/amps (with some factual comments) I am looking into (and will be theoretically be able to demo - with some effort) sorted by price:

<10k (€!) for 7 channels

1. NAD M22 + M27 (super cheap in comparison to rest, Hypex based class D, M27<200w and M22<300w, nice and clean layout - it looks manufactured well)

2. ATI Signature AT6007 (Recent Class AB design, modular design, best "value for money" spec wise from all designs on my list, very clean layout with pretty much no cabling)

3. Datasat RA7300 (also recent Class AB design, with a fan, not fully modular from the looks of it, also built by ATI but internal design looks a fair bit different from AT6007 or Mark Levinson 500H and looks more like CAT amps which I am unfamiliar with but which seem to be older but more expensive designs, "nearly" "value for money" at current pricing - i.e. datasat has decreased pricing on these last year, inside doesnt look near as tidy as NDA. ATI or Mark Levinson)

16-17k (€) retail for a 2channel + 5ch surround combo

4. Classe CA/CT2300/5300 (fan-based design, no modular construction, 5 channel amp seems more limited in output into 4ohms and less which should not be relevant for surround duty though, the inside layout doesnt nearly look as tidy cleanly laid out as the other amps on this list)

5. Krell Duo/Chorus 5ch (fan based design, modular construction, signal to noise and distortion specs look the worst from the contenders on this list, interior design not as clean as the more modular one with cabling still looking like a bit like a rats nest one some pictures I saw; class A hence maybe coming from class A a sound I might be "used to" given where I come from despite more mediocr specs)

6. Mark Levinson 532H/535H (few years old, built by ATI, design looks nearly identical to the ATI Signature amplifier modules at 2x the cost, 5channel amp <300w, very clean layout with pretty much no cabling)

Others interesting optionsoutside of the competition (even more expensive or impossible to demo/buy...):
Simaudio Moon MC8 - (>20k for 7ch, the design is not that new anymore, very expensive, specs worse then some of the newer designs)
Benchmark AHB2 - (way too little power as 2ch at 100w, in mono good but then >20k for 7ch)
Theta (newer hypex implementation amps, new surround amp not out yet) - Simply and regrettably not an option in Europe

Given pure spec and value for money considerations and following a logic "all amps sound the same" as long as they are within spec I should probably just go with the option 2 (ATI) and be done but maybe I have spent too much time in hifi already to just be pragmatic...

Any experiences with any of the above especially if people had the chance for direct comparisons would be much appreciated.

Ever get any replies to your post?

 

[ferrox]

I have been using ATI6007 Signature for almost 3 years. It’s a wonderful multi channel amp and is very affordable compared to other big brands.

Recently, I read about ATI has acquired DATASAT.

Hi all,

I am currently embarking on a bit of a journey to buy surround amplification that is "state of the art", i.e.:
- comes closest to the amplification ideal, ie neutral with no sound signature of its own (hence very good measurements as precondition even before a subjective hearing evaluation)
- enough power with some to spare - ideally 300w into 8 ohm and stable into low impedances, sufficient capacitance etc.
- allows to buy 7 channels of <=17k (€) (no mix and match of amp series/brands required and less cost is better given up to 16+ channel requirements going forward when atmos/auro come of age)
- and a bit of a non scientific personal preference I like clean and tidy layout and cabling in the equipment

I am coming from a stereo setup using Gryphon Audio Classe A "old-school" amplification. Hot enough to fry an egg and somewhat mellow sounding. I liked it but now looking if there is some newer amp designs which are more transparent with more power into 8 ohm (and which are also cheaper...). The Gryphon had massive reserves and doubles down all the way to 1 ohm but ultimately had only 150w into 8 ohm.

I am curious if people have experience with various of the below brands and opinions that could help in my evaluation process.

The list of brands/amps (with some factual comments) I am looking into (and will be theoretically be able to demo - with some effort) sorted by price:

<10k (€!) for 7 channels

1. NAD M22 + M27 (super cheap in comparison to rest, Hypex based class D, M27<200w and M22<300w, nice and clean layout - it looks manufactured well)

2. ATI Signature AT6007 (Recent Class AB design, modular design, best "value for money" spec wise from all designs on my list, very clean layout with pretty much no cabling)

3. Datasat RA7300 (also recent Class AB design, with a fan, not fully modular from the looks of it, also built by ATI but internal design looks a fair bit different from AT6007 or Mark Levinson 500H and looks more like CAT amps which I am unfamiliar with but which seem to be older but more expensive designs, "nearly" "value for money" at current pricing - i.e. datasat has decreased pricing on these last year, inside doesnt look near as tidy as NDA. ATI or Mark Levinson)

16-17k (€) retail for a 2channel + 5ch surround combo

4. Classe CA/CT2300/5300 (fan-based design, no modular construction, 5 channel amp seems more limited in output into 4ohms and less which should not be relevant for surround duty though, the inside layout doesnt nearly look as tidy cleanly laid out as the other amps on this list)

5. Krell Duo/Chorus 5ch (fan based design, modular construction, signal to noise and distortion specs look the worst from the contenders on this list, interior design not as clean as the more modular one with cabling still looking like a bit like a rats nest one some pictures I saw; class A hence maybe coming from class A a sound I might be "used to" given where I come from despite more mediocr specs)

6. Mark Levinson 532H/535H (few years old, built by ATI, design looks nearly identical to the ATI Signature amplifier modules at 2x the cost, 5channel amp <300w, very clean layout with pretty much no cabling)

Others interesting optionsoutside of the competition (even more expensive or impossible to demo/buy...):
Simaudio Moon MC8 - (>20k for 7ch, the design is not that new anymore, very expensive, specs worse then some of the newer designs)
Benchmark AHB2 - (way too little power as 2ch at 100w, in mono good but then >20k for 7ch)
Theta (newer hypex implementation amps, new surround amp not out yet) - Simply and regrettably not an option in Europe

Given pure spec and value for money considerations and following a logic "all amps sound the same" as long as they are within spec I should probably just go with the option 2 (ATI) and be done but maybe I have spent too much time in hifi already to just be pragmatic...

Any experiences with any of the above especially if people had the chance for direct comparisons would be much appreciated.

 

[RogerD]

Not to well known in the U.S. But I just acquired quite a few of them. They sell for 40 percent off listed pricing.

https://www.abamps.net

https://www.avforums.com/threads/cu...tems-cinema-series-amplifiers.1187739/page-37

 

[Bulldogger]

Krell Duo/Chorus 5ch (fan based design, modular construction, signal to noise and distortion specs look the worst from the contenders on this list, interior design not as clean as the more modular one with cabling still looking like a bit like a rats nest one some pictures I saw; class A hence maybe coming from class A a sound I might be "used to" given where I come from despite more mediocr specs)


Any experiences with any of the above especially if people had the chance for direct comparisons would be much appreciated.

Old thread but I thought I'd make a comment. Krell is back. The specs aren't as good because they aren't using much negative feedback. I'm sure they'd be much better if they chose. The new Krell Duo XD and Chorus XD are really great amps. The Krell Chorus XD amps are the best multichannel amps I have heard.

 

[Folsom]

I would never put much money, space, or time into surround sound. You listen in a very different way. What I would use with no upper budget what so ever is Benchmark amps because they're easy on the ears so you can use appropriate HT speakers that aren't audiophile ones that take too much room, aren't high enough directivity, and don't have the dynamic range. The benchmarks also are very small profile so they can be located literally anywhere.

 

[Hear Here]

Hi all,


<10k (€!) for 7 channels

1. NAD M22 + M27 (super cheap in comparison to rest, Hypex based class D, M27<200w and M22<300w, nice and clean layout - it looks manufactured well)

Others interesting optionsoutside of the competition (even more expensive or impossible to demo/buy...):
Simaudio Moon MC8 - (>20k for 7ch, the design is not that new anymore, very expensive, specs worse then some of the newer designs)
Benchmark AHB2 - (way too little power as 2ch at 100w, in mono good but then >20k for 7ch)
Theta (newer hypex implementation amps, new surround amp not out yet) - Simply and regrettably not an option in Europe

Any experiences with any of the above especially if people had the chance for direct comparisons would be much appreciated.

I'm a fan of the NAD Master Series of amps but the M22 is now rather long in the tooth. Instead, I'd suggest the M32 or the soon-to-be-released M33. These are integrated (and include DACs) but can be set up as power amps. NAD have introduced improved digital amp technology in these units.

Personally I'd avoid the Benchmark. I bought the AHB2 after a rave recommendation by a fellow Avantgarde owner, but it turned out to be just about the DULLEST amp of the dozen or so I bought or home demo'd to replace my tube monoblocs. It transpires that the guy who recommended it is overwhelmingly concerned with low noise levels, apparently over and above sound quality! Reading (carefully and between the lines) the various excellent reviews on this amp, you'll notice that speaker choice and room acoustics are very relevant to these good reviews. For my speakers, they well so drearily dull that I wanted to turn down the volume - the kiss of death for any equipment as far as I'm concerned, however "accurate" it may be on the lab bench. Peter

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I'm a fan of the NAD Master Series of amps but the M22 is now rather long in the tooth.

The M22 has been updated to a v2 and, I suspect, there will also be an update for the M27.
As for the AHB2, the issue with noise levels is tangential and DULL is the polar opposite of any adjectives I'd apply to it. OTOH, your preference for horns/tubes already that reveals you have different audible goals than I do.

 

[Hear Here]

Hello Kal and thanks for replying. I note that you wrote the Stereophile review of the AHB2 and generally praised it highly. Although I used valve amps for several years I'd already decided I wanted to move to SS before buying the Benchmark.

I had already bought my AHB2 before your (or anyone else's I believe) review was published, so I read all reviews with a critical eye.

My point is illustrated by your section "Listening in the Country" and the first sentence of your "Conclusions". In both a big question mark was hung on an otherwise highly praiseworthy item. My reading of your review (and others) is clearly that this amplifier is happy paired with some (maybe most) speakers and far less so with others.

I had anticipated an excellent match for my Avantgarde horns, particularly because of its huge S/N ratio and its switchable gain setting - both important to horn users. So I was hoping my "Stereophile Joint Speaker of the Year" may be ideally matched with the Benchmark. However, it turned out to be far from an ideal match. The Benchmark was an early SS amp in my search for a good replacement for my valve monos, but I also bought or borrowed amps from Accuphase, Sugden (both Class A), Quad, Micromega, GamuT, Devialet, NAD and a few others, but sadly the Benchmark was the least satisfactory and the only one that prompted me to adjust the volume control downwards. However I'm sure that for many speakers, it would present itself as an exceptionally good value amplifier. Just my view but shared by others who helped me with evaluation listening sessions. Peter

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I cannot dispute your observations but will reiterate that your your goals and preferences differ from mine as revealed by our speaker choices.

 

[Hear Here]

I cannot dispute your observations but will reiterate that your your goals and preferences differ from mine as revealed by our speaker choices.

Thanks but I'm in the dark as to your speaker choice. It'd be good to know as I'm always open to alternatives that may suit my listening room. My trials with electrostatics were unfortunate but I believe this was squarely down to my room's very odd features and that horns are "probably" the best for where I live. Incidentally my first horn purchase was very much influenced by Stereophile's excellent 15 page review. Robert's accuracy in describing the sort of sound I should expect was spot on. Thanks Peter

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Revel Ultima2 Studio.

 

[Hear Here]

Revel Ultima2 Studio.

Nice speakers - I considered them myself a few years ago. Peter

 

[rugyboogie]

Not sure if this is relevant but my 2 channel morphed into a 5.1 set up.
The heat output of my original 2 channel ML33, was ok but then added three more amps for home theater amps and the heat was just too much.
Amps were ML 33s , ML 33h, and a ML 335 were replaced by a
Balanced Audio technology VK 6200. Plenty of power and control for the Wilsons.